4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

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  • #621
January 23 hearing transcript:

Q. Where was it swabbed?
A. The entire leather portion of the strap, both top and bottom, and then the underside of the button.


The D was able to test it and exclude BK.

MIL inconclusive data
More importantly, Mr. Kohberger has disclosed that through further independent laboratory testing, he is eliminated as a contributor to Item 13.1.

JMO



This was the reason for not entering unknown male blood B into CODIS

BP testimony IGG hearing 1/23/25

Q. If I told you the lab report showed Unknown Male B came from a blood spot on the handrail going between the second and the first floor, does that help jog your memory? A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Why did you not pursue that person?
A. At that point in time, we had already received Mr. Kohberger's name, and from what my understanding was, entering another DNA profile into CODIS would remove the previous one we had from the knife sheath. So if memory serves, the discussion was we'll hold off, we'll stay with the one from the knife sheath; if we need to, we can address the Unknown Male B at a later time.
Q. I want to make sure I understand your testimony. Were you not aware of Unknown Male B until after December 19th when you knew Bryan Kohberger's name?
A. No, ma'am. I was aware of that before, yes.


JMO

Filed 2/24/25
MIL Touch
Footnote4
The other two male profiles, identified in the ISP lab reports as Unknown B and Unknown D, were never run through CODIS or subjected to IGG testing. The defense has never received an explanation as to why these two male profiles were not further investigated.
BBM
JMO
Partial DNA profiles (I think that's the case) under the fingernails may not be suitable for upload, but they can still be used to exclude someone based on further testing. It seemed to be that the odds of BK being a contributor were so low, that they knew testing would be pointless. The defense wanted that door firmly shut, so they tested it themselves.
 
  • #622
Partial DNA profiles (I think that's the case) under the fingernails may not be suitable for upload, but they can still be used to exclude someone based on further testing. It seemed to be that the odds of BK being a contributor were so low, that they knew testing would be pointless. The defense wanted that door firmly shut, so they tested it themselves.
Thank you for this explanation.
 
  • #623
The prosecution did partial testing only. They did NOT do IGG on the DNA found under MM's nail. So this was not conclusive or complete testing of this evidence at all. At most it could be described as partial testing.
It's completely made up to say that not doing IGG is partial testing. Doing IGG on DNA samples is not a standard investigative technique. They retrieved the samples and tested them against at least 5 or 6 people we know of, probably many more. This is standard.

And if the defense thought it would be beneficial at all to them, they could have done their own IGG just as they ran their own independent testing on these same samples. They know it benefits them more to say there is unknown DNA under MM's fingernails and our testing shows it's not from BK. They want to create that reasonable doubt. No way do they want IGG done on those samples.
JMO
 
  • #624
False. The blood was NOT within a bloody quadruple stabbing scene. One was found on a railing in another part of the house where the killer would not have been, and one was found outside the house altogether.

One DNA sample you KNOW belongs to the killer. There are absolutely no barriers to chasing that down to the fullest extent.

You're treating those blood drops as exculpatory, when at best they indicate accomplices.
If any evidence to that effect ever came to light, they could be tested against those people.

Of course everything points away from them being relevant, which is precisely why they can't do IGG.
IMO, LE should want to know if there was an accomplice.
Letting blood evidence sit (bannister/gloves) while waiting weeks for IGG on touch DNA?
What if that blood came back as BK? 3 weeks earlier?
What if there is an accomplice?
LE might think it unlikely, but the evidence is what should guide them to a suspect.
Just because they have an opinion it is not likely to be the perpetrator?
The way to find out is to test it.
JMO

Partial DNA profiles (I think that's the case) under the fingernails may not be suitable for upload, but they can still be used to exclude someone based on further testing. It seemed to be that the odds of BK being a contributor were so low, that they knew testing would be pointless. The defense wanted that door firmly shut, so they tested it themselves.
The P might have wanted it to remain "inconclusive" because that leaves doubt whether BKs DNA is under that fingernail.

JMO
 
  • #625
SBM
IMO, LE should want to know if there was an accomplice.
Letting blood evidence sit (bannister/gloves) while waiting weeks for IGG on touch DNA?
What if that blood came back as BK? 3 weeks earlier?
I don't think we really know what they did with it. All we know is they didn't put it into CODIS. They had to have known already it didn't match the DNA on the sheath. They may have been comparing it to other persons of interests. They may have eventually matched it to someone and ruled them out. Just because it didn't go into CODIS doesn't mean it was ignored.
JMO
 
  • #626
It's completely made up to say that not doing IGG is partial testing. Doing IGG on DNA samples is not a standard investigative technique. They retrieved the samples and tested them against at least 5 or 6 people we know of, probably many more. This is standard.

And if the defense thought it would be beneficial at all to them, they could have done their own IGG just as they ran their own independent testing on these same samples. They know it benefits them more to say there is unknown DNA under MM's fingernails and our testing shows it's not from BK. They want to create that reasonable doubt. No way do they want IGG done on those samples.
JMO
Also it just seems so blatantly obvious to me that Kohlberger accidentally left the sheath there- dropped it during the struggle in the dark and didn't notice 'till after he left the house.
 
  • #627
It's never been explained to my satisfaction as to why anyone would frame him and plant his sheath and their DNA isn't on it. Besides, we have the witness description of him, plus the car and cell phone evidence. It all adds up to him.
BK framed himself, just maybe not on purpose.

JMO
 
  • #628
For sure! CAST reports are the new DNA.

Plus, AT would have us believe that these late night/ early morning drives were 1. nowhere near 1122 and 2. had nothing to do with 1122 but we will learn 1. what time late night/ early morning is. Big difference IMO between 10 pm and 3 am. Big difference between 6 am and 3 am. If he was out those nights at 3 am, why? and 2. why was he out driving at all? where was he driving?

Now that @MassGuy has pointed out BK's clever little attempt at diversion, it's crazy funny that AT tried to USE it to suggest he innocent and the State's whole theory is wrong. Instead of providing ANY kind of workable alibi (which direction he drove an hour before the crime doesn't preclude him from changing direction), AT actually HIGHLIGHTED yet another deliberate step BK took to disguise his crime!

BK is NEVER going to get around his digital black out during the exact timeframe the crimes occurred.

JMO
AT is going to drag this out as far as she can as she is being paid an alot of $$$.
 
  • #629
They did test the DNA under the nail beds. The defense did as well.
JMO

It seems clear to me that had the defense discovered anything pointing to a different suspect, they would be trumpeting that from the hills.

None of what they found/might find elsewhere will remove BK’s DNA from the snap on the sheath beneath MM’s body. So at the very minimum, he’s involved in the murders. Even if they find 20 other suspects, he was there at the murder scene.

I think we always have to remind ourselves that LE investigators are NOT looking to put BK in prison. That is for the courts and jury to determine.

The investigators are “just the facts.” Whether the DNA points to BK or to Ronald McDonald, they follow the science. That led to Bryan Kohberger.

JMO but also facts.
 
  • #630
Having been both "drunk and high", I would be a pretty good witness on anything that happened during those times. And I would believe testimony from anyone in an altered state. The question is...what about an Idaho jury?

Most people are not "black out drunk". They still remember events, often quite vividly for some reason.

MOO.
DM will not identify BK if she takes the stand. All that is needed from her is that she saw a masked person in the house and texted/called her roommates because of it. I don’t care about his eyes or eyebrows, just that she saw him at that time. The timing will be supported by the cell phone data, and the doorbell footage during that timeframe will show the Elantra. BK, owner of an Elantra with no front plate, with his cell phone turned off during that timeframe, with his DNA on the knife sheath found under a victim. And that’s not even taking into account the rest of the known details of BK’s movements before and after the murders.
 
  • #631
DM will not identify BK if she takes the stand. All that is needed from her is that she saw a masked person in the house and texted/called her roommates because of it. I don’t care about his eyes or eyebrows, just that she saw him at that time. The timing will be supported by the cell phone data, and the doorbell footage during that timeframe will show the Elantra. BK, owner of an Elantra with no front plate, with his cell phone turned off during that timeframe, with his DNA on the knife sheath found under a victim. And that’s not even taking into account the rest of the known details of BK’s movements before and after the murders.
You are exactly right. I do wonder if BF will be called to testify. She, as far as we have ever been told, did not see or hear anything, and we have the text messages between her and DM, so I don't suppose it is absolutely necessary to have her take the stand, but I expect that she will, as she can testify to DM's demeanor and state of mind, I suppose. Any thoughts?
 
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  • #632
You are exactly right. I do wonder if BF will be called to testify. She, as far as we have ever been told, did not see or hear anything, and we have the text messages between her and DM, so I don't suppose it is absolutely necessary to have her take the stand, but I expect that she will, as she can testify to DM's demeanor and state of mind, I suppose . Any thoughts?
The state says they do intend to call both of them:
IMG_4001.webp
 
  • #633
I’m still trying to catch up a few pages but noticed a lot of DNA conversation and wanted to stop and post some thoughts on it and a few other things.

Following cases and just going off recent memory, never had I seen so much conflation?misunderstanding? Not sure which maybe a little bit of both, of the general public/case followers’ and misleading by Defense Attorney’s about DNA collected from crime scenes than I have since following the Morphew case in Colorado. And I gotta say oye e vey! this case comes very, very close.

Two very, very different cases yes, but both which have had DNA found in random areas not directly related to location in the home the murder likely happened in the Morphew case, and where we know for sure where the murders didn’t happen in this case, like the DNA found on the railing where the killer imo never entered- between 2nd and 1st floor.

In the Morphew case there was random DNA found in the murdered victim’s house, on her vehicle glovebox, and on her bike (all of which had absolutely nothing to do with the crime/murder of Suzanne). In that case, there are pages upon pages in the threads with posters posting DNA links and verified professionals posting and explaining types of DNA touch/transfer/partial profile/partial match/mixed profile DNA etc etc,and the quality of DNA found whether it is suitable/meets criteria for testing, how the testing works, over and over and some people still ignore the absolute mountain of quality circumstantial evidence against the the prime and only suspect- the husband (who imo surely murdered his wife and manufactured/facilitated an elaborate coverup) and instead drone on about sex offender DNA found on the glovebox and random DNA found around the house and on the bike must be the real killer(s). The fact that it was not a sex offender’s DNA and just a partial profile match to a sex offender and linked to 3 SA cases and which LE ran down and ruled out as being related to Suzanne’s murder, notwithstanding.

I think maybe because some people either want to believe the prime suspect/likely killer is innocent and/or haven’t followed many cases perhaps and not understanding all the variables and intricacies involved related to types of DNA found at crime scenes, how LE collects it and uses it as a lead/investigates to see if it leads anywhere- to a POI or suspect, which DNA qualifies or is enough for testing, how the testing works, and how LE rules it in or out depending on the context/weight of any other known facts and evidence they collect and analyze, how it relates to the crime itself and the crime scene and how all the evidence taken together in its totality leads them to narrow down and hone in on the likely/prime suspect.

It just seems no matter how many times it’s repeated and explained,
doesn’t matter people have their own ideas and a lot don’t trust law enforcement always doing their due diligence aka tunnel vision. IMO this is partly why we see conspiracies of all types put forth, LE is incompetent/corrupt, the suspect’s being setup/framed by someone else, the knife sheath might have been used by someone else after BK touched it in a store, someone else committed the murders and planted the sheath to frame BK etc, etc.

Has inept/incompetent LE and LE investigation happened in other cases before? yes. For recent example see Massachusetts Karen Read case. IMO, this is more the exception than the rule though.

Just like the Morphew case, this case ain’t just the keystone cops investigating. Far from it.
Having said that, with all the esteemed agencies involved in investigating this case, you’d have to believe all these LE task force investigators combined didn’t do their due diligence, are setting up/framing BK or they are so inept that they haven’t found the right person responsible. Why on earth would anyone want to frame BK for a quadruple homicide???? I really struggle to see any logical, reasonable explanation or motive as to why LE or anyone else would try to frame BK. Never mind not a scintilla of fact or evidence been presented that shows BK is being framed.

Some people want to wait until the case goes to trial to make up their minds which is fine and yes I know the suspect is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Outside of that though, we are all free to opine on cases based on released info/facts of a case. I just feel like reason, logic, and common sense sometimes gets lost in translation, so to speak.

I can absolutely relate to not wanting to believe a husband married for decades to his wife kills her, or a stranger with no known ties to the victims enters victims’ residence and carries out an ambush blitz type massacre on sleeping college students. But alas as history tells us, sadly and unfortunately these things have and do happen.

I believe we all want the right person held accountable for these murders.

For me, BK’s DNA found on the knife sheath next to a murdered victim is huge important evidence because that’s where 2 of the girls’ were murdered- in MM’s room, in her bed. It’s one of the actual murder crime scenes and his single source 5 octillion to one match DNA is there at the murder scene on the knife sheath found next to a murdered victim.

Again that’s a huge piece of evidence placing him at the scene and there’s been people who’ve opined that that right there is enough for them to say BK did it, they have a right to their opinion. I’m just not sure it would be enough for a Jury.

But the DNA on the sheath isn’t the only thing implicating him in these heinous murders. LE/the state also has incriminating digital evidence their investigation bore out about his phone being off during the murder window what they believe is BK’s vehicle on surveillance in the area of the scene during the murder window, and he cannot provide a valid/verifiable alibi. I mean, his flimsy alibi of I was out driving around the area at the time in question. Well yeah we have what we believe to be your vehicle on surveillance driving the area, circling just prior to the massacre, and speeding away from the scene after, and oh by the way, your phone was off at the exact time of the murder window, and your DNA was found on a knife sheath that held the likely murder weapon and found next to a murdered victim. Are we to believe those are all just coincidences?
I for one, don’t.

As I’ve said I’ve followed cases for decades and have seen many high ranking esteemed LE and LE detectives from a myriad of agencies, and prosecutors/DA interviewed following adjudicated cases that have said there are no coincidences when it comes to murder. I agree with that sentiment.

As more info comes out in a case and the coincidences are stacking up (there were hundreds against the husband in the Morphew murder case), hard to believe it’s all just a coincidence and this guy BK is being framed. We still don’t know everything LE/the state has against the suspect BK, but just based on what we do know up to this point, is already too much for me to chalk up to oh it’s just coincidence/s and poor BK is the unluckiest man on the planet.

One last point, I’ve seen theorized maybe BK was in the area to purchase drugs that early morning. If that were the case, then why the he!! wouldn’t he just tell the cops that instead of sitting in jail for over 2 years with the DP hanging over his head and potential death by firing squad someday??? Hmmmm let’s see, sit in jail for a quadruple homicide I didn’t do/had nothing to do with for over 2 years and potentially facing death by firing squad some day, or admit I relapsed on drugs, was driving in the area that early morning to pick up my fix, and turn in my drug dealer. The latter seems like the best choice to me if I’m totally innocent of a quadruple homicide and facing DP.
So yeah, the driving in the area to pick up drugs theory is completely dead in the water for me.

IMO, BK either did it all himself or helped/assisted someone which is way, way way down my list of probabilities as I continue to believe BK’s a lone wolf. To me, he fits the profile of one to a proverbial T.

IMHOO

ETA-paragraph spacing
 
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  • #634
DM will not identify BK if she takes the stand. All that is needed from her is that she saw a masked person in the house and texted/called her roommates because of it. I don’t care about his eyes or eyebrows, just that she saw him at that time. The timing will be supported by the cell phone data, and the doorbell footage during that timeframe will show the Elantra. BK, owner of an Elantra with no front plate, with his cell phone turned off during that timeframe, with his DNA on the knife sheath found under a victim. And that’s not even taking into account the rest of the known details of BK’s movements before and after the murders.
Will be pretty hard for her to testify with BK right there in a suit with no restraints.
 
  • #635
Will be pretty hard for her to testify with BK right there in a suit with no restraints.
I wonder if the defense would dare to take the step of asking DM if she can identify anyone in the court room who was the masked intruder. DM would have to say that she couldn't. That would be interesting. But I doubt the defense will do this, who knows where it would go.
 
  • #636
I wonder if the defense would dare to take the step of asking DM if she can identify anyone in the court room who was the masked intruder. DM would have to say that she couldn't. That would be interesting. But I doubt the defense will do this, who knows where it would go.
That would be a very foolish thing to do, because if she said yes, that's going to be a hard row to hoe defusing that for the jury. Juries remember stuff like that, even though witness identification is less reliable than something like a DNA result. It makes an impression. Defense is going to be doing what they can to minimise what that witness saw, not highlight it.

MOO
 
  • #637
Will be pretty hard for her to testify with BK right there in a suit with no restraints.

It would be horrifying. I just can't imagine how this tragedy has affected their young lives. Survivors guilt is real. I hope that they have the resilience to move forward, and not let this experience drag them down.

And the fact that BK wants his trial, so he can smugly sit at the defense table, with his narcissistic air. Not unlike Chad Daybell. All about him. He will be the "star". Disgusting.
 
  • #638
That would be a very foolish thing to do, because if she said yes, that's going to be a hard row to hoe defusing that for the jury. Juries remember stuff like that, even though witness identification is less reliable than something like a DNA result. It makes an impression. Defense is going to be doing what they can to minimise what that witness saw, not highlight it.

MOO
Yes, that's why I posted as I did. Attorneys (and others in situations like this) know not to ask a question that you don't already know what the answer will be.
 
  • #639
Will be pretty hard for her to testify with BK right there in a suit with no restraints.

He has restraints. They are just not as obvious as exposed wrist cuffs or ankle shackles. For example a shock vest, stun belt or leg brace.
IIRC at one of BK's suit wearing early court appearances CourtTV reporter Chanley Painter got a glimpse of a leg brace on him.

 
  • #640
@twall scary that stuff is available for purchase!
 
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