4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[twall]

@twall scary that stuff is available for purchase!

Lol, what can't you buy on the internet?!

 

[Arkay]

He has restraints. They are just not as obvious as exposed wrist cuffs or ankle shackles. For example a shock vest, stun belt or leg brace.
IIRC at one of BK's suit wearing early court appearances CourtTV reporter Chanley Painter got a glimpse of a leg brace on him.

Humane Restraint Transport Leg Brace

Humane Restraint Transport Leg Brace can be worn under clothing making it ideal for trials and airline travel where a discrete restraint is needed.

www.handcuffwarehouse.com

Handcuff Warehouse?

The mind reels.

 

[mickey2942]

Handcuff Warehouse?

The mind reels.

Who knew you could buy pink, red, purple, blue handcuffs? Gold? The scary thing I saw was the device to open doors. And how to pick locks, along with an entire kit. Including a practice lock in plexiglass.

Great. Obviously the locks on our doors are completely inadequate. Scary.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Who knew you could buy pink, red, purple, blue handcuffs? Gold? The scary thing I saw was the device to open doors. And how to pick locks, along with an entire kit. Including a practice lock in plexiglass.

Great. Obviously the locks on our doors are completely inadequate. Scary.

Actually, many really are. Picking a lock was a lot easier than I thought it would be. There is a trick, but there are lots of people who know it. Best lock is one of those that flip over on the inside for when you are inside. But always double lock with two different kinds of locks and make sure at least 1 goes an inch or more into the door jamb. JMO.

 

[jepop]

This 20 cell thing appears to be made up. I used the number (.168ng/ul) that was provided in the defense motion in regards to the use of the term "touch DNA," and plugged it into a few programs. They all suggest that it's possible we're talking about hundreds of cells here (tough to estimate without volume though).

There was clearly enough for the lab to do its testing, and to pass on a sample to Othram. There is no mention of the testing being consumptive, so it's reasonable to assume there's some left over.

Agree. The 20 cells only comes from one source imo; Howard Blum. Again stating that imo Blum can't be considered a reliable source. I have never considered him as such. If he didn't 'technically' speaking make up the 20 cells number, then jmo he got it from a misinformed police source, or himself misunderstood and conflated the CODIS criteria for matching str profiles ( ie 20 loci) in the data base, with the actual number of cells located on the sheathe's snap button.

That's my working theory/ speculation/conjecture on why Blum has made this claim of 20 cells.

I don't and won't read Blum's material, but there have been many posts over the years stating the 20 cell number and referencing Blum as their source. His writings require subscription ('When Idaho Slept' for e.g., which is why I'm unable to link for this post). Moo

 

[jepop]

A better way of responding would be "this information was confirmed by the coroner, Cathy Babbutt", instead of insinuating that I was calling her a liar.

I have never heard this podcast, and I can't get it to play, but I'll take your word for it that it was confirmed as being victim's blood.

Alternatively, if you want to be sure I would listen to the podcast if I were you. I haven't listened to it so don't know if the coroner confirmed this or not. Jmo

 

[jepop]

This was not correct. The poster asked:

If I understand correctly, the defense insists on the DNAs found under MM’s fingernails tested, and the prosecution doesn’t think it is necessary?

It's not correct that the prosecution found it unnecessary to have the DNA under MM's fingernails tested. According to MIL#5, there were at least 5 people tested by ISL against the DNA found under her fingernails--BK and 4 others whose LR was inconclusive (if Lab Report #7 refers to another individual, then at least 5 people plus BK were tested). We don't know how many were tested that were outright excluded--probably many more.

The lab reported a series of LR's for Item 13.1 including an LR of 0.399 for [Redacted] 0.485 for [Redacted], 0.20 for [Redacted], 0.0233 for [Redacted]. Lab Report #7, at 3.

The prosecution clearly thought it was necessary to test the DNA under MM's fingernails and did do that. Additionally, the defense was able to do their own independent testing and says their testing shows he was excluded from being a contributor.
JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022425-Motion-inLimine5-RE-Inconclusive-Data.pdf

Thanks for posting the facts as known @wendy44

 

[jepop]

Will be pretty hard for her to testify with BK right there in a suit with no restraints.

It is going to be very, very confronting for her. I would be very scared in her situation.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is there a definitive source for DM and/or BF's ages? I've seen several reported, but given they graduated high school in 2021, IMO they were most likely 19 or 20.

If so, the fact that DM was drunk as she ultimately reported to the police, being underage (US legal drinking age is 21) adds one more psychological barrier to calling 911, in addition to the many already pointed out in this thread. IMO totally understandable behavior, even if not "rational" per se.

JMO

Yes, both DM and BF were the youngest IIRC. But I don't believe DM said she was drunk at the time, just that she had been drinking earlier in the evening. By 4 am I expect that her BAC wouldn't have even reached the limit of DUI.

It was the combination of being so young and in an off campus housing, having gone to sleep, being awoken by sounds she thought were her roommates, playing with their dog or having someone over. IMO

Understandable behavior and confusing to DM at the time. Enough for her to go sleep in her old room with BF because she was groggy and unsure of the situation. Certainly not enough for her to realize there was a raging quadruple killer in that house and deciding just to go back to sleep.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Lol, what can't you buy on the internet?!

A not guilty verdict?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Clothes next to each other or borrowing a sweatshirt seem a lot different than finding DNA on a high touch area of a knife sheath.

I found a Mark 2 from WW2 ( Navy's Kabar) in great uncles stuff, he was a Marine. No wonder he had hidden under all the other memorabilia and a lot of stuff.
These knives practically speak their purpose "I was made to kill people."

Absolutely, one or two well place punches to the chest and neck area with that type of knife would have killed the victims quickly and easily, seconds for each one. I think that was BK's plan all along. Quiet and deadly.

We know BK had knife skills and the upper arm strength (from boxing) to render his victims unable to react especially with the element of surprise on his side.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Yes, both DM and BF were the youngest IIRC. But I don't believe DM said she was drunk at the time, just that she had been drinking earlier in the evening. By 4 am I expect that her BAC wouldn't have even reached the limit of DUI.

It was the combination of being so young and in an off campus housing, having gone to sleep, being awoken by sounds she thought were her roommates, playing with their dog or having someone over. IMO

Understandable behavior and confusing to DM at the time. Enough for her to go sleep in her old room with BF because she was groggy and unsure of the situation. Certainly not enough for her to realize there was a raging quadruple killer in that house and deciding just to go back to sleep.

JMO

Exactly.
We all have gone to sleep after something scary.
In a college party house, what they heard and saw was in fact thousands of times more likely to have been a prank, or a drunken friend of a friend acting out than what it turned out to be.

 

[Charlot123]

This is where this theory loses me. They stole the sheath, wiped it completely clean except for one spot on the snap, then planted it that way? To what purpose? Why not leave more DNA OR remove all of it? The sheath stealers study criminology, too? Now you've increased the odds that the stealers(and also killers) would single out BK, steal his sheath, and know to wipe off DNA or just enough DNA....

When you start piling on what it would take for someone to single out a person with the same type of car you plan to use, stealing his sheath, assuming he owns one, from ...somewhere...wiping off just enough DNA and planting it just so that the existing DNA does not get destroyed, it feels like Twister at this point. JMO.

I mean, we can "if this, then this" till the cows come home. Unless there is definitive circumstantial evidence that points to someone else stalking BK?

You forget. The LE’s own expert identified the year of Elantra as different from BK’s and was insisting on it. So, even the Elantra may not be the same.

 

[mrjitty]

It's completely made up to say that not doing IGG is partial testing. Doing IGG on DNA samples is not a standard investigative technique. They retrieved the samples and tested them against at least 5 or 6 people we know of, probably many more. This is standard.

And if the defense thought it would be beneficial at all to them, they could have done their own IGG just as they ran their own independent testing on these same samples. They know it benefits them more to say there is unknown DNA under MM's fingernails and our testing shows it's not from BK. They want to create that reasonable doubt. No way do they want IGG done on those samples.
JMO

good point Wendy.

It gets a bit exhausting the claims that any theory the internet can come up with has to be exhaustively disproved by the state.

this is not how reasonable doubt works IMO.

The defence would have to come up with something that creates a real possibility someone else did it AND the defendant is thus excluded.


State is being held to standards by the internet that don’t apply in 1000s of trials every year!

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

You are exactly right. I do wonder if BF will be called to testify. She, as far as we have ever been told, did not see or hear anything, and we have the text messages between her and DM, so I don't suppose it is absolutely necessary to have her take the stand, but I expect that she will, as she can testify to DM's demeanor and state of mind, I suppose. Any thoughts?

I agree, BF will confirm DM and their text messages as evidenced by phone records, and DM's state of mind. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

They did test the DNA under the nail beds. The defense did as well.
JMO

So they know the DNA owner?

 

[mrjitty]

IMO, LE should want to know if there was an accomplice.
Letting blood evidence sit (bannister/gloves) while waiting weeks for IGG on touch DNA?
What if that blood came back as BK? 3 weeks earlier?
What if there is an accomplice?
LE might think it unlikely, but the evidence is what should guide them to a suspect.
Just because they have an opinion it is not likely to be the perpetrator?
The way to find out is to test it.
JMO


The P might have wanted it to remain "inconclusive" because that leaves doubt whether BKs DNA is under that fingernail.

JMO

in what way was the mixed blood sample allowed to sit? we know if was compared to things. We don’t know what has been done with it in the last 2 years.

IGG was run on a sample from the murder weapon. You seem to be advocating every sample in the investigation should now be run through Codis and IGG?

The investigative resourcing of that becomes prohibitive IMO.

Just one point. As the sample is mixed we don’t even know if a testable single profile could be developed to run?

 

[jepop]

You forget. The LE’s own expert identified the year of Elantra as different from BK’s and was insisting on it. So, even the Elantra may not be the same.

No, this is false. You claim this without a link. Have you read Judge Hippler's order re Franks Hearing?. The expert, SA Imel, extended the year range to 2011 to 2016 on 26th November 2022. Please don't write unsupported statements like this as if they are fact. Jmo

pp 17-18

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

 

[Charlot123]

No, this is false. You claim this without a link. Have you read Judge Hippler's order re Franks Hearing?. The expert, SA Imel, extended the year range to 2011 to 2016 on 26th November 2022. Please don't write unsupported statements like this as if they are fact. Jmo

pp 17-18

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

I was watching this case very closely during the first two weeks and the expert seemed to be sure

“A forensic examiner with the FBI determined the car to likely be a 2011-13 Hyundai Elantra, though subsequently said it could be a model as late as 2016, according to the affidavit.”

But the affidavit was written when they already identified BK, right?

P.S. I just looked into PCA. It just says “upon further review” without mentioning the date when it got changed to include 2016.

Idaho quadruple murder suspect and white Elantra sedan: The trail began with the car

Surveillance videos showing the white vehicle cruising the neighborhood of the murders were key to unraveling the gruesome mystery of who killed four University of Idaho students inside the house.

www.oregonlive.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

You forget. The LE’s own expert identified the year of Elantra as different from BK’s and was insisting on it. So, even the Elantra may not be the same.

Different in a small way by model year where there were very little physical changes in the car's overall design, not like it was a large yellow school bus with flashing lights, but still a mid range White Elantra Sedan.

On grainy surveillance, which I believe the expert relied upon early on totally understandable, and then they found additional surveillance video which caused an expansion to the model year.

JMO