4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #102

[danablue1]

deleted by me double post

 

[danablue1]

Deleted by me double post

 

[danablue1]

Deleted by me double post

 

[Ghostwheel]

Could be. Except she was found inside her room per Brett Payne's statement/Exhibit A. I suppose she could have run there but with both her and E found in the room, I doubt it.

Which leads to a question... since they were found in her room, and likely were there when BK struck... why did he kill them? Planned? Hence him opening her door which would have likely been closed if she was going to go to bed after eating. Or, was it like you said? She was in the living room (so she had to have run there since she was found inside her bedroom).

View attachment 572629

Bryan Kohberger arrest affidavit in Idaho murders

www.documentcloud.org

Every time I read this I am struck by the need to specify that "Just before this room was a bathroom door on the south wall of the hallway." Why the need to specify this if it didn't matter? They didn't specify that just before the bathroom on the left there were stairs going down on the right. I'll just have to wait to find out.

 

[155etta]

I think you nailed this! Bam! I do think that's a shower curtain, and I think it is one that had been all folded up so that when it is unfolded you see all the little squares.

So a new shower curtain? I really hope they know when he bought it.

 

[danablue1]

The "there's someone here" could have also been referring to the doordash driver.
I guess it would depend what time it was said and who said it

 

[gremlin444]

We know if he does indeed have VSS he could have trouble navigating in the dark (and he damn sure can't drive). There was ambient lighting with patio bulb lights, neon sign lights, and maybe a kitchen light left on?

I'm pretty sure this has been addressed multiple times.

Many people with visual snow can drive at night and navigate at night. For some people, bright lights and sunlight actually make their visual snow worse. My young adult with visual snow is better at night and even prefers to keep just a string of fairy lights on red as his main lighting in his room in the evenings.

You can look on reddit for personal accounts of this, I'll only post medical/health sites for now. I wish all the handouts the neuro-ophthalmologist gave us were available online:

The level of visual impairment varies significantly among people with visual snow syndrome. Many people can continue to drive if visual snow isn’t impairing their ability to see.

What To Know About Visual Snow Syndrome

Learn about visual snow syndrome, a rare neurological disorder that affects your entire visual field.

www.healthline.com

The severity of symptoms can vary from person to person, and in some cases, it may be possible for a person with visual snow syndrome to drive.

What Causes Visual Snow? Symptoms, Mental Disorder, Risks, Treatment

Visual snow is a symptom of an underlying condition and not a disease itself. Learn the causes, symptoms, risk factors, diagnosis, and treatment of visual snow.

www.medicinenet.com

 

[Ghostwheel]

The way Exhibit A reads IMO... she was inside her room as it says "also in the room was a male).

View attachment 572633
Bottom of Pg 1: Bryan Kohberger arrest affidavit in Idaho murders

Throwing this out there, it said they found XKs documents in the room, so they identified it as her room. The Also in the room could mean XK was there or they could be playing word games with the documents being there and also found in the room was EC. Not tipping their hand in case there was something specific about how XK was found that only the killer could know. IMO, based on way too many cases that played word games.

 

[gremlin444]

Not a popular opinion, but I believe that Xana and Ethan were killed first. BK fights with Ethan. Xana retreats to the room. Ethan barely makes it back. BK thinks he kills both of them and goes upstairs and comes back to a crying Xana. JMO

I think this statement from a filling we got yesterday indicates that Ethan had not gotten out of the bed.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...-MiL-2-Vague-Undisclosed-Expert-Testimony.pdf

State's witness Gary Dawson: The Defendant disclosed expert opinions claiming that more than one assailant was necessary in order to accomplish the homicides in the suggested timeframe offered by the State. Dr. Dawson will opine that the victim’s intoxication levels would have impaired their ability to resist, and for certain victims (as detailed in his report) it would have prevented them from putting up any resistance.

If that statement literally means plural victims, then the ones who wouldn't have been able to resist at all would be Maddie and Ethan, since we know both Kaylee and Xana fought back.

 

[Gemmie]

Every time I read this I am struck by the need to specify that "Just before this room was a bathroom door on the south wall of the hallway." Why the need to specify this if it didn't matter? They didn't specify that just before the bathroom on the left there were stairs going down on the right. I'll just have to wait to find out.

I hear you! I remember people's issues with this and I addressed this long ago but it's a bit fuzzy now. Also, right now isn't the best time for me to dig and respond (can anyone say wine with dinner? lol) Plus, it's movie time!

What I remember saying was something along the lines of it "being poorly written" (thus confusing) but now isn't the time to make sense of that. lol Let me see what I can find tomorrow that might help you get off the fence one way or the other.

 

[GA_Peach]

If BK is responsible for the murders, DM provided an excellent description of the perp.

 

[vls12345]

I think this statement from a filling we got yesterday indicates that Ethan had not gotten out of the bed.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...-MiL-2-Vague-Undisclosed-Expert-Testimony.pdf

State's witness Gary Dawson: The Defendant disclosed expert opinions claiming that more than one assailant was necessary in order to accomplish the homicides in the suggested timeframe offered by the State. Dr. Dawson will opine that the victim’s intoxication levels would have impaired their ability to resist, and for certain victims (as detailed in his report) it would have prevented them from putting up any resistance.

If that statement literally means plural victims, then the ones who wouldn't have been able to resist at all would be Maddie and Ethan, since we know both Kaylee and Xana fought back.

I haven't read all the papers yet, but this aligns with what I think happened.

My theory: BK entered through the slider & went to the third floor first, where he killed MM & KG. (MM was asleep or out of it enough that there was no resistance. KG woke up enough to fight some.)

In the meantime, XK might have been eating her food in the den or in her bedroom when BK entered. After he went up the stairs, XK went to the kitchen (maybe to put her trash or utensils from her DoorDash food there). As she went back to her room (or perhaps to the bathroom beside her bedroom), BK either saw or sensed movement from that area so went there next. I think he may have come up behind XK either at the bathroom doorway or her bedroom doorway. He stabbed her, then realized there was someone in the bed in her room. (EC, who I think was fully asleep/passed out when stabbed.) While he was attacking EC, XK was hurt & whimpering (what DM heard), so BK turned around & said the it's ok, I'm here to help statement while then stabbing her further. I think she put up a fight during this part.

Then, between killing 4, the time spent inside, etc., I think he was focused on leaving. I don't feel like he saw/registered DM.

All MOO.

(I don't know about the "someone's here" statement. I thought DM had said KG said that? But many seem to assume that XK said it? My memory is more hazy on those details. Since KG's & MM's rooms looked out on the side/back yards, maybe KG saw him moving through the yard approaching the slider when she said that? And maybe she wouldn't have said it in alarm but more that someone was coming over & maybe thought he was coming to visit one of the roommates. Or perhaps she was thinking it was a DoorDash driver that got turned around & parked behind the house instead of the parking area & was walking through the yard to bring the order, not knowing who of the roommates may have ordered or who may have been expecing someone so she just made the general statement. But I don't know.)

 

[Ghostwheel]

I hear you! I remember people's issues with this and I addressed this long ago but it's a bit fuzzy now. Also, right now isn't the best time for me to dig and respond (can anyone say wine with dinner? lol) Plus, it's movie time!

What I remember saying was something along the lines of it "being poorly written" (thus confusing) but now isn't the time to make sense of that. lol Let me see what I can find tomorrow that might help you get off the fence one way or the other.

Thank you for the offer, but I will not be off the fence until I hear it all. It's just how I am. It could well be poorly written, or written that way on purpose. Enjoy your movie!

 

[gremlin444]

Throwing this out there, it said they found XKs documents in the room, so they identified it as her room. The Also in the room could mean XK was there or they could be playing word games with the documents being there and also found in the room was EC. Not tipping their hand in case there was something specific about how XK was found that only the killer could know. IMO, based on way too many cases that played word games.

From the 911 call, IMHO, I think we can definitively say that Xana was NOT found in the hall. She was behind a fully or almost fully closed door--that is why we hear HJ calling out for Xana and Ethan repeatedly (I believe HJ is already on the 2nd floor when BF/DM come inside to check after the 911 operator instructs them to). We first hear HJ calling out for X and E (and maybe the sound of him knocking on the door), then 15 seconds later we hear him repeatedly call out to Xana. Then, 37 seconds later HJ starts telling the girls to "Get out, get out, get out." That's 52 seconds between when HJ starts calling out to them and when he tells the girls to get out.

Even if HJ was just entering the first floor door when we hear him calling to X& E, it wouldn't take 52 seconds for HJ to walk from the 1st floor door and into the living room where he'd be able to see down Xana's hall--maybe 10 seconds at most and that's if he walked really slow.

But 52 seconds is just enough time to look under X's door and struggle to open it if her body is behind it.

IMHO, MOO, YMMV.

 

[MassGuy]

I think this statement from a filling we got yesterday indicates that Ethan had not gotten out of the bed.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...-MiL-2-Vague-Undisclosed-Expert-Testimony.pdf

State's witness Gary Dawson: The Defendant disclosed expert opinions claiming that more than one assailant was necessary in order to accomplish the homicides in the suggested timeframe offered by the State. Dr. Dawson will opine that the victim’s intoxication levels would have impaired their ability to resist, and for certain victims (as detailed in his report) it would have prevented them from putting up any resistance.

If that statement literally means plural victims, then the ones who wouldn't have been able to resist at all would be Maddie and Ethan, since we know both Kaylee and Xana fought back.

I keep forgetting about the intoxication factor, which really would have simplified this for him. I think it's important to remember too, that "defensive wounds" doesn't mean the victims were able to fight back. That's as simple as raising your hand in order to protect yourself from knife thrusts.

I've run this through various programs, and this is what I get as far as how long the actual murders would have taken (not factoring in entry, exit, changing, all that).

It would have taken 10-15 seconds to kill Maddie, and assuming Kaylee did have defensive wounds, perhaps several seconds longer.

Xana and Ethan would have taken quite a bit longer, estimated at between 30-60 seconds each. Xana may have resisted or tried to flee, which would push it to the higher end, but if Ethan was too drunk to fight back, then his would be on the lower end.

 

[Warwick7]

Referencing the thumbs up photo - did he even realize he left the sheath at this point?! Seemingly would be a bit more panicked and not doing a photo shoot in his bathroom. But maybe he didn't consider DNA being on it, hm.

It has crossed my mind he left it as a calling card. Maybe.

 

[gremlin444]

(I don't know about the "someone's here" statement. I thought DM had said KG said that? But many seem to assume that XK said it? My memory is more hazy on those details. Since KG's & MM's rooms looked out on the side/back yards, maybe KG saw him moving through the yard approaching the slider when she said that? And maybe she wouldn't have said it in alarm but more that someone was coming over & maybe thought he was coming to visit one of the roommates. Or perhaps she was thinking it was a DoorDash driver that got turned around & parked behind the house instead of the parking area & was walking through the yard to bring the order, not knowing who of the roommates may have ordered or who may have been expecing someone so she just made the general statement. But I don't know.)

In the PCA it says that DM told the police she thought it was KG who said it, but the police thought that since Xana's phone showed her on TikTok until 4:12 that it was more likely her who said it.

IMHO, I think Xana got her food and took it back to her room. If she had been sitting in the lounge when BK came down the 3rd floor stairs, the chance of her seeing him too early is too high.

I think she had gone back to her room. BK came in and went upstairs. After he finished, he was preparing to come down, but then Xana came out of her room to either put the bag in the kitchen trash or grab a drink. I think she got either to the door of the kitchen or all the way inside the kitchen and may have heard him make a noise at the top of the stair--or maybe he had even left the sliding glass door open a bit and she noticed it. Then Xana said either:

"There's someone here" (just speaking out loud to herself, startled)

or, my strong feeling is that she might have been saying

"Is there someone here?"

I feel like at that point she turned and was hurrying back to her room to tell Ethan.....and BK came down and caught up with her either right outside her bedroom door or right when she walked into it.

 

[gremlin444]

I think she had gone back to her room. BK came in and went upstairs. After he finished, he was preparing to come down, but then Xana came out of her room to either put the bag in the kitchen trash or grab a drink. I think she got either to the door of the kitchen or all the way inside the kitchen and may have heard him make a noise at the top of the stair--or maybe he had even left the sliding glass door open a bit and she noticed it. Then Xana said either:

"There's someone here" (just speaking out loud to herself, startled)

or, my strong feeling is that she might have been saying

"Is there someone here?"

I feel like at that point she turned and was hurrying back to her room to tell Ethan.....and BK came down and caught up with her either right outside her bedroom door or right when she walked into it.

Tacky to reply to myself, but I just literally had another thought about the sliding glass door.

It has been theorized from the beginning that there's a good chance that BK had popped the sliding glass door off its track to gain entry. If so, trying to put it completely back in place and close it all the way before heading upstairs would risk being even noisier. So perhaps he left it still partially off the tracks and just mostly closed. With the temps that night, it would have noticeable to Xana as she walked through the doorway and that might have been what first drew her eyes over to the door.

IMHO, etc.

 

[Boxer]

Tacky to reply to myself, but I just literally had another thought about the sliding glass door.

It has been theorized from the beginning that there's a good chance that BK had popped the sliding glass door off its track to gain entry. If so, trying to put it completely back in place and close it all the way before heading upstairs would risk being even noisier. So perhaps he left it still partially off the tracks and just mostly closed. With the temps that night, it would have noticeable to Xana as she walked through the doorway and that might have been what first drew her eyes over to the door.

IMHO, etc.

MOO i think the slider simply was not locked, it's basically the back door.

 

[Ghostwheel]

From the 911 call, IMHO, I think we can definitively say that Xana was NOT found in the hall. She was behind a fully or almost fully closed door--that i why we hear HJ calling out for Xana and Ethan repeatedly (I believe HJ is already on the 2nd floor when BF/DM come inside to check after the 911 operator instructs them to). We first hear HJ calling out for X and E (and maybe the sound of him knocking on the door), then 15 seconds later we hear him repeatedly call out to Xana. Then, 37 seconds later HJ starts telling the girls to "Get out, get out, get out." That's 52 seconds between when HJ starts calling out to them and when he tells the girls to get out.

Even if HJ was just entering the first floor door when we hear him calling to X& E, it wouldn't take 52 seconds for HJ to walk from the 1st floor door and into the living room where he'd be able to see down Xana's hall--maybe 10 seconds at most and that's if he walked really slow.

But 52 seconds is just enough time to look under X's door and struggle to open it if her body is behind it.

IMHO, MOO, YMMV.

But what if Xana was in the bathroom? Escaped the bedroom and tried, unsuccessfully, to shut herself in the bathroom. This might explain calling for Xana and Ethan, (maybe just as he comes up the steps and turns the corner because the first call out sounded almost jaunty, like he thought it was a joke), DM saying she is passed out, what's wrong and that she is not waking up (does she see Xana at this point? or just assume since she is not answering she is passed out?), then HJ calling for Xana (is he in the room? At the bathroom in front of the room? Maybe sees her to the side?), she's not moving but it could be dark in the bathroom and he suspects something is really wrong so goes in the room to check on Ethan and that's when we hear Get out.

Not that you are not most likely right, that he most likely found both in the bedroom, Xana first and being such a tiny bedroom, that would have taken a lot of courage to get past her to check on Ethan. I don't discount the most likely scenario at all, I just leave my mind open to other possibilities, even if they might be less likely. It might very well be poorly worded descriptions in the PCA and I do take the words people use as interpretive.

I mean, the press release said "Detectives believe that on November 12th, the two surviving roommates had also been out in the Moscow community, separately, but returned home by 1 a.m. on November 13th. The two did not wake up until later that morning." BBM: We know that isn't the whole truth now. ETA: It is wordsmithing.