4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Warwick7]

Wait. Right.

The defense would need proof from a professional that BK has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Autism and/or whatever it is they are using for mitigation against the death penalty.

2 Cents

Exactly!

 

[minazoe]

What is Z and M?

oh! meant X and K. TY

 

[Cool Cats]

The fact that the live roommates didn’t call police wouldn’t make BK any less guilty on its own.

Even if those texts are BF or DM telling her dad “I think my roommates are dead” before calling police, has nothing to do with BK's guilt. M00

The answer is, that drunk college kids aren’t the best at evaluating situations. There’s not some real, super satisfying answer for anyone. It’s plain and simple going be “we didn’t know the extent of what was happening” and there’s really not any way to prove if that was really their perception or not.

Besides, they don’t need a satisfying answer to the drunk young girls not immediately knowing their friends were murdered to prove that BK is guilty.

I mean Nita Neary, a member of Chi Omega who was returning to the sorority house the night of the Ted Bundy attacks, also had reported seeing a man come down the stairs and exit the front door.

She was able to give a good, strong description. Nita Neary did meet with an artist and drew a sketch of the person that she saw leaving the Chi Omega house. ... It looked like Mr. Bundy. But the point is she didn't call the police. Once LE arrived she did report seeing a man come down the stairs and exit the front door.

It was a big mistake not to call it in sooner but people are complicated and make mistakes all the time. People get confused. I made a mistake and had my car stolen 2 months ago. Luckily the detective on the case just recovered it and I am talking with the prosecutor.

So whatever confusion was going on does not mitigate BK's guilt. I agree.

2 Cents

 

[SteveP]

With all of the talk about the death penalty, as it may or may not be imposed in the BK murder case, upon highly likely conviction, I was curious about how often the death penalty is actually carried out in Idaho. Turns out that the state has only carried out three executions since the United States Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976, and Idaho enacted a new death penalty statute in 1977. The last execution was in June of 2012, of a man convicted in 1985 of a June, 1984 brutal murder. The state currently has 9 inmates on death row, with one being there since 1983, and another since 1986. Idaho, like many of the states that have the death penalty, has encountered problems at times, getting drugs from pharmaceutical companies, and that likely has had some impact on the ability to carry out sentences. The governor just signed a bill into law that will make the firing squad Idaho's primary form of execution, as of July 1, 2026, which, theoretically, could result in more executions being carried out.

Seems to me that BK probably feels no pressing need to plead guilty to the murders of MM, KG, XK, and EC. Even if his attorneys can not get the death penalty removed from this case, there is every reason to believe that he will be incarcerated for many, many years before he may ever be executed . JMO

Death Row | Idaho Department of Correction

www.idoc.idaho.gov

Timeline: The death penalty in Idaho

Idaho is one of 21 states where capital punishment is legal.

www.ktvb.com

 

[jepop]

The fact that the live roommates didn’t call police wouldn’t make BK any less guilty on its own.

Even if those texts are BF or DM telling her dad “I think my roommates are dead” before calling police, has nothing to do with BK's guilt. M00

The answer is, that drunk college kids aren’t the best at evaluating situations. There’s not some real, super satisfying answer for anyone. It’s plain and simple going be “we didn’t know the extent of what was happening” and there’s really not any way to prove if that was really their perception or not.

Besides, they don’t need a satisfying answer to the drunk young girls not immediately knowing their friends were murdered to prove that BK is guilty.

I mean Nita Neary, a member of Chi Omega who was returning to the sorority house the night of the Ted Bundy attacks, also had reported seeing a man come down the stairs and exit the front door.

She was able to give a good, strong description. Nita Neary did meet with an artist and drew a sketch of the person that she saw leaving the Chi Omega house. ... It looked like Mr. Bundy. But the point is she didn't call the police. Once LE arrived she did report seeing a man come down the stairs and exit the front door.

Respectfully bolded in your post: Exactly! The defense can't just get stuck into DM for the 'delay' in calling 911. Imo what delay? DM didn't know her friends were being murdered at 4.10 am and didn't discover they were dead until late the next morning. The call was made immediately a recumbent XK was discovered, so imo there was no delay in making the call.

There have to be limits to the directions defense can travel on cross or direct? Cos relevance? Timing of 911 call has zero to do with who, why, when or how the victims were killed. DM can't be made to account for the timing of the call and be judged via insinuation just for the heck of it. That is not relevant to the evidence. Jmo.

 

[10ofRods]

My opinion: the knife type is known from the wounds, upon doing the autopsies.

The sheath matches that knife. Wounds from that knife were inflicted in the third floor bedroom (and the same knife was used on the victims of the second floor).

That knife matches the dimensions of the sheath. The sheath was found under a victim's body, at the crime scene. It had BK's DNA on it. BK is associated with the sheath.

It appears there is an Amazon record of BK buying a knife AND a sheath that matches the sheath found but also matches the dimensions and edge-shape of the knife used for the murders.

With luck, the forensic analysis of the stab wounds revealed microscopic metallic fragments, now analyzed and consistent with both the Ka-Bar sheath and the knife it held and a Ka-Bar knife. Ka-Bar has a proprietary outer layer on its knives.

My opinion: this is going to be a difficult set of facts to overcome at trial. My opinion is that these facts are not difficult to understand and cannot be swept under any kind of rug.

Of course, the fact that a car quite similar to BK's in several ways drove by the house so many times (including the night of the murders and the morning after the murders) is another separate set of facts. And it's not as if the witness statements about the eyebrows, height and type of dress rule out BK.

IMO. Another odd thing is that BK refused to declare himself "not guilty." Very odd. Stood silent. The judge had to enter it for him, pro forma. Innocent people do not do that, IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

With all of the talk about the death penalty, as it may or may not be imposed in the BK murder case, upon highly likely conviction, I was curious about how often the death penalty is actually carried out in Idaho. Turns out that the state has only carried out three executions since the United States Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976, and Idaho enacted a new death penalty statute in 1977. The last execution was in June of 2012, of a man convicted in 1985 of a June, 1984 brutal murder. The state currently has 9 inmates on death row, with one being there since 1983, and another since 1986. Idaho, like many of the states that have the death penalty, has encountered problems at times, getting drugs from pharmaceutical companies, and that likely has had some impact on the ability to carry out sentences. The governor just signed a bill into law that will make the firing squad Idaho's primary form of execution, as of July 1, 2026, which, theoretically, could result in more executions being carried out.

Seems to me that BK probably feels no pressing need to plead guilty to the murders of MM, KG, XK, and EC. Even if his attorneys can not get the death penalty removed from this case, there is every reason to believe that he will be incarcerated for many, many years before he may ever be executed . JMO

Death Row | Idaho Department of Correction

www.idoc.idaho.gov

Timeline: The death penalty in Idaho

Idaho is one of 21 states where capital punishment is legal.

www.ktvb.com

BK, I believe, has researched everything and knows the difference between being incarcerated in the general population vs being incarcerated on death row. 2 completely different things.

If he pleads guilty and gets LWOP in a plea deal he would serve his sentence exposed to the general population. He may be afraid to do that and the prison would likely lock him up in solitary protective custody. Solitary protective custody, I believe, is worse than the conditions on death row so he may actually prefer to serve his sentence on death row, thus, he has no motive to plead guilty and get LWOP.

Just a thought but BK is the type who would research all this I believe.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

My opinion: the knife type is known from the wounds, upon doing the autopsies.

The sheath matches that knife. Wounds from that knife were inflicted in the third floor bedroom (and the same knife was used on the victims of the second floor).

That knife matches the dimensions of the sheath. The sheath was found under a victim's body, at the crime scene. It had BK's DNA on it. BK is associated with the sheath.

It appears there is an Amazon record of BK buying a knife AND a sheath that matches the sheath found but also matches the dimensions and edge-shape of the knife used for the murders.

With luck, the forensic analysis of the stab wounds revealed microscopic metallic fragments, now analyzed and consistent with both the Ka-Bar sheath and the knife it held and a Ka-Bar knife. Ka-Bar has a proprietary outer layer on its knives.

My opinion: this is going to be a difficult set of facts to overcome at trial. My opinion is that these facts are not difficult to understand and cannot be swept under any kind of rug.

Of course, the fact that a car quite similar to BK's in several ways drove by the house so many times (including the night of the murders and the morning after the murders) is another separate set of facts. And it's not as if the witness statements about the eyebrows, height and type of dress rule out BK.

IMO. Another odd thing is that BK refused to declare himself "not guilty." Very odd. Stood silent. The judge had to enter it for him, pro forma. Innocent people do not do that, IMO.

About time you came back.... LOL

 

[jepop]

About time you came back.... LOL

Overdue!

 

[Balthazar]

I didn't even catch that -- has to be a typo, right?

Here's my theory: some activity on each girl's phone is due to operations each is performing. Sending texts, attempting calls, engaging with apps. The flurry of activity in the morning IMO is largely about social media, looking for signs of electronic life for the roommates who aren't responding to texts/calls. However, I think there's additional activity that does not require manual input and was not initiated by them.

Possibly discrepancies between when something was sent and when it was received, or a scheduled event -- like adding a contact. Perhaps that started as a request at a very different hour, another person accepted it at a time which then confirmed the contact, without additional action from the requesting person.

The State IMO will show that DM and BF were awake until a time, awakened at another time, active on their phones around 4 am, messaging and calling. Then asleep for a time before waking, and resuming attempts to locate their roommates.

While the Defense may want to give an impression that they were awake and using their phones all night, in a fresh attempt at squelching any excited utterances.

It won't work IMO.

JMO

BM is DM's dad. JMO.

I only see perhaps one hour in which BF and DM could have been asleep based on the phone records but I doubt they were since it was just after DM ran to BF's room. I would think they would be discussing all that had gone on that night during that time, trying to wind down from the distressing events. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

About time you came back.... LOL

I am glad to be back! Have missed WS quite a bit!

 

[MassGuy]

BM is DM's dad. JMO.

I only see perhaps one hour in which BF and DM could have been asleep based on the phone records but I doubt they were since it was just after DM ran to BF's room. I would think they would be discussing all that had gone on that night during that time, trying to wind down from the distressing events. JMO.

I see a 6 hour gap between DM and BF's last activity. What are you looking at?

 

[Boxer]

The fact that the live roommates didn’t call police wouldn’t make BK any less guilty on its own.

Even if those texts are BF or DM telling her dad “I think my roommates are dead” before calling police, has nothing to do with BK's guilt. M00

The answer is, that drunk college kids aren’t the best at evaluating situations. There’s not some real, super satisfying answer for anyone. It’s plain and simple going be “we didn’t know the extent of what was happening” and there’s really not any way to prove if that was really their perception or not.

Besides, they don’t need a satisfying answer to the drunk young girls not immediately knowing their friends were murdered to prove that BK is guilty.

I mean Nita Neary, a member of Chi Omega who was returning to the sorority house the night of the Ted Bundy attacks, also had reported seeing a man come down the stairs and exit the front door.

She was able to give a good, strong description. Nita Neary did meet with an artist and drew a sketch of the person that she saw leaving the Chi Omega house. ... It looked like Mr. Bundy. But the point is she didn't call the police. Once LE arrived she did report seeing a man come down the stairs and exit the front door.

It's just basically so out there that someone would come into the house and kill everyone immediately that she couldn't really believe it, even though she was afraid.
She didn't kill them, yet she is getting more grilling and negativity than the murderer.

Defenses are getting to be too much. It is good to make sure people have representation and keep prosecutors honest, but trying to destroy innocent witnesses when your own client doesn't have an alibi, bought a weapon matching the murder weapon, bought mask identical to the witnesses description, has a car identical to the murderers vehicle, and left his DNA at the crime scene is too far.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Respectfully bolded in your post: Exactly! The defense can't just get stuck into DM for the 'delay' in calling 911. Imo what delay? DM didn't know her friends were being murdered at 4.10 am and didn't discover they were dead until late the next morning. The call was made immediately a recumbent XK was discovered, so imo there was no delay in making the call.

There have to be limits to the directions defense can travel on cross or direct? Cos relevance? Timing of 911 call has zero to do with who, why, when or how the victims were killed. DM can't be made to account for the timing of the call and be judged via insinuation just for the heck of it. That is not relevant to the evidence. Jmo.

Jumping off this post. It occurs to me that the state needs to prove almost instantaneous death in at least one of the deaths. Why? Because (and this is no denigration of any actions on the part of DM or BF) if an immediate call would have saved all 4, then BK would not be accused of murder. He would be accused of attempted murder, which carries different sentencing choices. From what I have read, this is impossible, an immediate call would not have saved all and most likely not any. But it doesn't mean AT might not try this route.

IMO, what is coming in to play is what the activity indicates. Just posted a retro photo? That can be automatic. Posted a long winded thought on Websleuths, probably not automatic. Checked everyone and everything to ask if anyone has been able to contact all the people you can't get ahold of and they all say no? Probably not automatic. Opened up an app and it processed incoming messages for your account. Automatic. Finally got a phone call back from an adult who knows things and they say call 911? Not automatic. Do any of the actual activities show concern, confusion, terror?

There are a couple of choices that AT may be looking for. DM and BF weren't REALLY frightened, so no excited utterances should be allowed . If they really WERE frightened and didn't call immediately, how excited could their utterances be? . If they really WERE frightened and waited so long, were they still the same amount of frightened the next morning?( ).

And in the long run, it doesn't matter. She needs to ask for whatever she needs to ask for to provide a proper defense so no one can say he didn't get one. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

[jepop]

At the time when forensics starting gathering evidence in the very first hours, they couldn't be sure of the killer's entrance or exit points--did the person enter and exit the same way or different ways and which door/window did they use. Heck, there were photos of evidence techs inspecting the outside of BF's window--which she knew he didn't come in or out of her room while she was in there, but they had no idea at that point if the killer had come in earlier and hidden and waited. So at that point, looking at railing next to the first floor made perfect sense.

Their final theory as to to the enter/exit point didn't emerge until after they'd had been able to interview BF&DM a few times, examine the physical terrain outside, etc. At that point they had enough evidence to state they believed entrance and exit had both been through the sliding glass door on the 2nd floor and that the killer had not used the 1st floor stairs.

If they hadn't bothered to swab/check/photo possible entrance points and stairs in the very first days, people would be having a fit saying they had missed evidence. Not saying they should swab every surface in every single room of the house--but in the first days they had to assume the first floor entrance could have been used. Once they determined it likely had not, then that handrail becomes irrelevant.

<modsnip - moderating>

Good points. Crime scene reconstruction doesn't happen overnight right?. Over time I bet the evidence showed quite clearly that entry and exit were via the back slider. But as you say, in the initial day/s swabs were likely taken from both stair rails.

I remember the photos of forensics examining the front windows and door on the first day or two. After that it appeared they concentrated on the back door area and kitchen and didn't return to the front area. I have the impression that the front door became the main entry point for investigators by the last week of Nov/early Dec. If that's correct then I think it would be because LE were confident by that point there was no second unknown perp using the ground to 1st floor stairs. Jmo.

 

[Sachi]

I

Jumping off this post. It occurs to me that the state needs to prove almost instantaneous death in at least one of the deaths. Why? Because (and this is no denigration of any actions on the part of DM or BF) if an immediate call would have saved all 4, then BK would not be accused of murder. He would be accused of attempted murder, which carries different sentencing choices. From what I have read, this is impossible, an immediate call would not have saved all and most likely not any. But it doesn't mean AT might not try this route.

IMO, what is coming in to play is what the activity indicates. Just posted a retro photo? That can be automatic. Posted a long winded thought on Websleuths, probably not automatic. Checked everyone and everything to ask if anyone has been able to contact all the people you can't get ahold of and they all say no? Probably not automatic. Opened up an app and it processed incoming messages for your account. Automatic. Finally got a phone call back from an adult who knows things and they say call 911? Not automatic. Do any of the actual activities show concern, confusion, terror?

There are a couple of choices that AT may be looking for. DM and BF weren't REALLY frightened, so no excited utterances should be allowed . If they really WERE frightened and didn't call immediately, how excited could their utterances be? . If they really WERE frightened and waited so long, were they still the same amount of frightened the next morning?( ).

And in the long run, it doesn't matter. She needs to ask for whatever she needs to ask for to provide a proper defense so no one can say he didn't get one. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Well Said!

 

[mickey2942]

Here is a strange thought. What if BK insisted to his defense, against their advice, to testify???

We all know that would not be good but it might be a chance for him to profess his innocence.. right before he gets convicted.

It's hard to believe anyone would be so arrogant and stupid to do this... but you never know

Two Words....Jodi Arias, and also Alex Murdaugh. Both, were train wrecks on the stand.

 

[mmeynstyn]

My opinion: the knife type is known from the wounds, upon doing the autopsies.

The sheath matches that knife. Wounds from that knife were inflicted in the third floor bedroom (and the same knife was used on the victims of the second floor).

That knife matches the dimensions of the sheath. The sheath was found under a victim's body, at the crime scene. It had BK's DNA on it. BK is associated with the sheath.

It appears there is an Amazon record of BK buying a knife AND a sheath that matches the sheath found but also matches the dimensions and edge-shape of the knife used for the murders.

With luck, the forensic analysis of the stab wounds revealed microscopic metallic fragments, now analyzed and consistent with both the Ka-Bar sheath and the knife it held and a Ka-Bar knife. Ka-Bar has a proprietary outer layer on its knives.

My opinion: this is going to be a difficult set of facts to overcome at trial. My opinion is that these facts are not difficult to understand and cannot be swept under any kind of rug.

Of course, the fact that a car quite similar to BK's in several ways drove by the house so many times (including the night of the murders and the morning after the murders) is another separate set of facts. And it's not as if the witness statements about the eyebrows, height and type of dress rule out BK.

IMO. Another odd thing is that BK refused to declare himself "not guilty." Very odd. Stood silent. The judge had to enter it for him, pro forma. Innocent people do not do that, IMO.

Yes! Thank you.

IMO Another odd thing is when BK was arrested, he did not say "I didn't do it, I am innocent." "...LaBar told TODAY on Tuesday, Jan. 3. "He believes he's going to be exonerated. That's what he believes, those were his words." <BBM>

Public defender says Idaho murder suspect is ‘calm,’ believes he’ll be exonerated: ‘This is not him’

Public defender Jason LaBar said he expects for Bryan Kohberger to sign extradition paperwork during Tuesday’s hearing, paving the way for his return to Idaho.

www.today.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes! Thank you.

IMO Another odd thing is when BK was arrested, he did not say "I didn't do it, I am innocent." "...LaBar told TODAY on Tuesday, Jan. 3. "He believes he's going to be exonerated. That's what he believes, those were his words." <BBM>

Public defender says Idaho murder suspect is ‘calm,’ believes he’ll be exonerated: ‘This is not him’

Public defender Jason LaBar said he expects for Bryan Kohberger to sign extradition paperwork during Tuesday’s hearing, paving the way for his return to Idaho.

www.today.com

Yah, before he saw all the evidence against him.... 2 Cents

 

[SteveP]

BM is DM's dad. JMO.

I only see perhaps one hour in which BF and DM could have been asleep based on the phone records but I doubt they were since it was just after DM ran to BF's room. I would think they would be discussing all that had gone on that night during that time, trying to wind down from the distressing events. JMO.

Not sure what phone records you are looking at, to form an opinion that they only had perhaps one hour in which BF and DM could have been asleep. That is certainly not supported In DEFENDANT’S OBJECTION TO STATE’S MOTION IN LIMINE RE: TEXT MESSAGES AND TESTIMONY, in which we can see...

BF accessed Snapchat at 4:34. and at 4:37, she accessed Instagram, almost certainly looking for any activity from her roommates, or attempting to message them. Between then and 7:30, there was no new activity on BF's phone. That is about 2 hours and 53 minutes.

Between 4:32:57 and 8:05, there was no activity on DM's phone. That is 3 hours and 33 minutes of no activity.

DM and BF may have been talking to each other for a period of time, but we do not know that they were, or for how long. The phone records seem to suggest that either of them could have gotten about 3 hours of sleep. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/031725-Defendants-Obj-States-MiL-Text-Messages-Testimony.pdf