4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Cool Cats]

At the time when forensics starting gathering evidence in the very first hours, they couldn't be sure of the killer's entrance or exit points--did the person enter and exit the same way or different ways and which door/window did they use. Heck, there were photos of evidence techs inspecting the outside of BF's window--which she knew he didn't come in or out of her room while she was in there, but they had no idea at that point if the killer had come in earlier and hidden and waited. So at that point, looking at railing next to the first floor made perfect sense.

Their final theory as to to the enter/exit point didn't emerge until after they'd had been able to interview BF&DM a few times, examine the physical terrain outside, etc. At that point they had enough evidence to state they believed entrance and exit had both been through the sliding glass door on the 2nd floor and that the killer had not used the 1st floor stairs.

If they hadn't bothered to swab/check/photo possible entrance points and stairs in the very first days, people would be having a fit saying they had missed evidence. Not saying they should swab every surface in every single room of the house--but in the first days they had to assume the first floor entrance could have been used. Once they determined it likely had not, then that handrail becomes irrelevant.

<modsnip - moderating>

Great post. Makes good sense about that handrail.

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

 

[10ofRods]

Yes! Thank you.

IMO Another odd thing is when BK was arrested, he did not say "I didn't do it, I am innocent." "...LaBar told TODAY on Tuesday, Jan. 3. "He believes he's going to be exonerated. That's what he believes, those were his words." <BBM>

Public defender says Idaho murder suspect is ‘calm,’ believes he’ll be exonerated: ‘This is not him’

Public defender Jason LaBar said he expects for Bryan Kohberger to sign extradition paperwork during Tuesday’s hearing, paving the way for his return to Idaho.

www.today.com

And "exoneration" is not the same as saying "I am innocent." I keep thinking about Casey Anthony. She WAS exonerated - but not innocent. IMO

Totally just opinion, but I am probably not alone in that one. I think it's possible that RA in the Delphi murders thought he would be exonerated too (and decompensated slowly in jail as he gradually realized that was not going to happen).

I've done quite a bit of work in jails, prisons and mental hospitals for the criminally insane. Giving up the idea that one is "going to be exonerated" can be the first step to getting a reduced sentence for accepting one's guilt - especially after the jury has weighed in.

He probably still believes it. He may go from "I will get off on several salient technicalities, as described by my lawyers and believed by myself" to "This isn't fair, I ought not to be sentenced to death."

At some level, he knew and still knows that he's made a game out of four young people's lives. A hideous game that somehow represents him, he has made "his mark" on the world and no one could stop him and now it's done. But he still wants to play the courtroom game.

IMO, of course.

 

[Sundog]

And "exoneration" is not the same as saying "I am innocent." I keep thinking about Casey Anthony. She WAS exonerated - but not innocent. IMO

Totally just opinion, but I am probably not alone in that one. I think it's possible that RA in the Delphi murders thought he would be exonerated too (and decompensated slowly in jail as he gradually realized that was not going to happen).

I've done quite a bit of work in jails, prisons and mental hospitals for the criminally insane. Giving up the idea that one is "going to be exonerated" can be the first step to getting a reduced sentence for accepting one's guilt - especially after the jury has weighed in.

He probably still believes it. He may go from "I will get off on several salient technicalities, as described by my lawyers and believed by myself" to "This isn't fair, I ought not to be sentenced to death."

At some level, he knew and still knows that he's made a game out of four young people's lives. A hideous game that somehow represents him, he has made "his mark" on the world and no one could stop him and now it's done. But he still wants to play the courtroom game.

IMO, of course.

And I think he'll keep playing the legal games well beyond this trial, whether he gets LWOP or the death penalty, through ongoing appeals that could take years.

 

[Betty P]

And I think he'll keep playing the legal games well beyond this trial, whether he gets LWOP or the death penalty, through ongoing appeals that could take years.

He strikes me as the type who wants to make a game of it. He wants to get the best of the police and prosecutors.

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907995224057717059

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907915551369814218

 

[jepop]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907915551369814218

Good. It's time for prosecutors to ramp up proactively, as opposed to reactively, hitting back at defense filings which contain questionable and/or unsupported conclusions. Jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907915551369814218

Good, I've always wondered if and when BK was 'officially' diagnosed. A person can claim anything and even seem to fit the pattern, but I think it's imperative that there be an official diagnosis in order for it to be accepted by a jury as a true fact.

JMO

 

[crhedBngr]

Had never heard of this so I did a bit of research. This is exactly what BK was attempting. M00

Nathan Freudenthal Leopold Jr. and Richard Albert Loeb were two American students at the University of Chicago who kidnapped and murdered 14-year-old Bobby Franks in Chicago, Illinois, United States, on May 21, 1924.

They committed the murder – characterized at the time as "the crime of the century" – hoping to demonstrate superior intellect, which they believed enabled and entitled them to carry out a "perfect crime" without consequences.

Yes. An interesting case.

Hitchcock's movie "Rope" is based on this crime. It's an interesting watch, IMO.

JMVHO.

 

[Warwick7]

"...prosecutors said the defense has not fully disclosed the data behind two expert mental health evaluations of Kohberger."

"The state requested additional materials, including test results and the facts supporting the experts’ conclusions, to allow their own experts time to review and prepare a rebuttal. The supplemental discovery request specifically refers to evaluations by forensic psychiatrist Dr. Eileen Ryan and neuropsychologist Rachel Orr."

Former U.S. attorney to represent State of Idaho in case against Bryan Kohberger

Special Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Joshua D. Hurwit is going to represent the State of Idaho in the case against defendant Bryan Kohberger.

www.kivitv.com

 

[Warwick7]

Reminder: The defense witnesses are penalty phase witnesses. They’ll be trying to explain why he shouldn’t be executed not why he’s innocent.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

IMO most LE departments do not have the time nor enough resources to send every bit of random DNA found/collected around a crime scene for testing. They typically focus on DNA found in, on, or around the victim in close proximity to where the victim was killed as far as what they send for testing. Also, some random DNA found/collected in other places of a house, like different rooms or areas of the home from the where the crime/murder of victim(s) actually took place and/or from areas where the perp/murderer likely did not go, will receive less focus due to could’ve been left there anytime prior to the crime/murder and also, some is so degraded and/or found to be of such limited genetic material (imo has to do with having insufficient # of loci or alleles) that it does not even meet the criteria for testing which the prosecution in this case confirmed some of the DNA collected did not meet the criteria/eligibility for testing.
So it’s not always a case of, oh the keystone cops didn’t do due diligence rather, they are far from keystone cops who did do their due diligence and some of the DNA they collected was determined not to be eligible/suitable for testing.
Lastly, the DNA found under MM’s fingernail WAS sent for testing and results came back inconclusive.

IMHOO

ETA-punctuation

<modsnip - off topic>

What do we see in ID case: lots of locals, lots of potential suspects. Lots of people partying around the house, even. The whole case is based on one piece of touch DNA. For that DNA, as we know, a private database is entered.

Nothing is done for the DNA under fingernails.

In bacteriology, there is a word “fomites”.
“Fomites” are items of clothes or objects that have traces of a pathogen on them. It becomes important during epidemics such as plague, smallpox but many others, too, where the disease can be spread if people use the objects that the sick person has touched or used before. So it is indirect transfer not from host to host but via an object.

So this DNA on the sheath reminds me of that term, “fomite”. It is indirect transfer, not on the body, not anywhere else. Just an object lying on the bed.

While DNA under the nails implies direct contact between two people.

So IMHO, it had to be given as much attention as the DNA on the sheath. The same process, same database, trees, all had to be used.

Why it wasn’t is a question.

We just need to have better DNA laws.

All answers that I got from our participants tell me one thing: why the DNA under the nailbeds has less relevance than the DNA on an object lying on the bed

My observation is different: at the time of the crime, they were of equal relevance and should have been processed equally diligently. You don’t rule out evidence you use all of it and only later start eliminating suspects

JMO of course…

 

[Warwick7]

<modsnip - off topic>

What do we see in ID case: lots of locals, lots of potential suspects. Lots of people partying around the house, even. The whole case is based on one piece of touch DNA. For that DNA, as we know, a private database is entered.

Nothing is done for the DNA under fingernails.

In bacteriology, there is a word “fomites”.
“Fomites” are items of clothes or objects that have traces of a pathogen on them. It becomes important during epidemics such as plague, smallpox but many others, too, where the disease can be spread if people use the objects that the sick person has touched or used before. So it is indirect transfer not from host to host but via an object.

So this DNA on the sheath reminds me of that term, “fomite”. It is indirect transfer, not on the body, not anywhere else. Just an object lying on the bed.

While DNA under the nails implies direct contact between two people.

So IMHO, it had to be given as much attention as the DNA on the sheath. The same process, same database, trees, all had to be used.

Why it wasn’t is a question.

We just need to have better DNA laws.

All answers that I got from our participants tell me one thing: why the DNA under the nailbeds has less relevance than the DNA on an object lying on the bed

My observation is different: at the time of the crime, they were of equal relevance and should have been processed equally diligently. You don’t rule out evidence you use all of it and only later start eliminating suspects

JMO of course…

BBM

Respectfully, I beg to differ. DNA under fingernails can be very powerful.

Cops: Fingernail DNA helps catch woman's killer 28 years later

www.nbcnews.com

12 years after her murder, DNA from teen victim's fingernails leads to suspect

On Feb. 11, 2004, the naked body of 17-year-old Sharabia Thomas was found in two laundry bags in an alley in Brooklyn

www.cbsnews.com

However, as for BK, even the defense says the her nails are irrelevant.

 

[Charlot123]

BBM

Respectfully, I beg to differ. DNA under fingernails can be very powerful.

Cops: Fingernail DNA helps catch woman's killer 28 years later

www.nbcnews.com

12 years after her murder, DNA from teen victim's fingernails leads to suspect

On Feb. 11, 2004, the naked body of 17-year-old Sharabia Thomas was found in two laundry bags in an alley in Brooklyn

www.cbsnews.com

However, as for BK, even the defense says the her nails are irrelevant.

Do they say irrelevant or do they say the explanation weighing the statistic probabilities can be misunderstood by the jury?

 

[Trime]

Very troubling video.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Yes. An interesting case.

Hitchcock's movie "Rope" is based on this crime. It's an interesting watch, IMO.

JMVHO.

Compulsion

So is "Compulsion". Bradford Dillman and Dean Stockwell are riveting. Bobby Franks, the victim, was actually related to one of the men, hence they knew his school schedule and where to find him. So damn chilling to know that people like this walk amongst us.

 

[mrjitty]

Very troubling video.

I also found it troubling and i was frankly disappointed in Peter here. He’d just about won me over with his even handed content only to drop this video hyping up frankly wild claims by Sy Ray with less critical thought than we’ve seen here. I get the content creators need some tension in a case that is becoming super cut and dry but i thought this didn’t meet his usual standards.

YMMV MOO

 

[katydid23]

Good, I've always wondered if and when BK was 'officially' diagnosed. A person can claim anything and even seem to fit the pattern, but I think it's imperative that there be an official diagnosis in order for it to be accepted by a jury as a true fact.

JMO

Yes, there should be an official diagnosis. And that would also open up his mental health records to the prosecution, which is important, imo. If the D is going to be allowed to make arguments concerning his mental health, then the P should be able to do the same.IMO

 

[katydid23]

I also found it troubling and i was frankly disappointed in Peter here. He’d just about won me over with his even handed content only to drop this video hyping up frankly wild claims by Sy Ray with less critical thought than we’ve seen here. I get the content creators need some tension in a case that is becoming super cut and dry but i thought this didn’t meet his usual standards.

YMMV MOO

I agree. Peter is usually very even-handed and stays rational and logical when he discusses a case. He usually calls it right down the middle, relying upon legal expertise was if ruing on it as if he was the judge.

I think he bought what Sy Ray is trying to sell this time.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, there should be an official diagnosis. And that would also open up his mental health records to the prosecution, which is important, imo. If the D is going to be allowed to make arguments concerning his mental health, then the P should be able to do the same.IMO

Same thing that happened in Delphi IMO