4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Cool Cats]

The defense's own DNA expert says that it is BK's DNA on the sheath.

The defense plans to argue that this "fact" does not prove Kohberger was at the crime scene and the knife sheath itself could have been planted by the real perpetrator.

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger finally reveals his defense

The 30-year-old criminology PhD student is facing the death penalty for the savage stabbing deaths of four students in Moscow , Idaho, on November 13 2022.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Prosecutors wrote in the State’s Response to Defendant’s Motion to exclude IGG evidence:

"Instead of challenging the conclusion that the DNA on the knife sheath belonged to Defendant, the defense’s expert disclosures reveal that the defense plans to argue the DNA on the knife sheath does not prove Defendant was ever at the crime scene and the knife sheath itself could have been planted by the real perpetrator."

"The defense has not disclosed any experts to challenge the confirmatory STR comparison showing the DNA on the knife sheath matched Defendant’s DNA. On the contrary, the defense has disclosed that its Forensic Biology and DNA expert will testify that there is good support that Mr. Kohberger’s DNA was found on Item 1.1, a swab from the knife sheath."

 

[NCWatcher]

At the time when forensics starting gathering evidence in the very first hours, they couldn't be sure of the killer's entrance or exit points--did the person enter and exit the same way or different ways and which door/window did they use. Heck, there were photos of evidence techs inspecting the outside of BF's window--which she knew he didn't come in or out of her room while she was in there, but they had no idea at that point if the killer had come in earlier and hidden and waited. So at that point, looking at railing next to the first floor made perfect sense.

Their final theory as to to the enter/exit point didn't emerge until after they'd had been able to interview BF&DM a few times, examine the physical terrain outside, etc. At that point they had enough evidence to state they believed entrance and exit had both been through the sliding glass door on the 2nd floor and that the killer had not used the 1st floor stairs.

If they hadn't bothered to swab/check/photo possible entrance points and stairs in the very first days, people would be having a fit saying they had missed evidence. Not saying they should swab every surface in every single room of the house--but in the first days they had to assume the first floor entrance could have been used. Once they determined it likely had not, then that handrail becomes irrelevant.

<modsnip - moderating>

If LE hadn't swabbed entrances and exits, they would have been said to be incompetent, I agree. Unless one of the four dead students was the killer, obviously someone did enter and exit. But people are seeming to say in a party house, which this was, party goers' DNA is everywhere so looking FOR DNA on house surfaces is useless. I disagree.
MOO

 

[mmeynstyn]

I haven't made time to watch it. I will later tonight.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907163506333610033

I watched it out of curiosity. I have to admit, I like the way he had the car driving around - the animation stuff. However, he even admits he doesn't know what the car is doing several times during the loops around so he adds the car pulling over periodically and doing several U-turns. Some of the U-turns he mentions where from the descriptions in the docs.

Also, his loops did not cover the gas station video that picked up a white car on Hwy 8. Does anyone recall - has that video ever been mentioned again in evidence?

Not sure this was even an Elantra, but around 3:45 am, a white car was shown on the gas station video, he is showing the white Elantra in a different location off Walenta Dr. at that time. Here is a link about the gas station video: Idaho murders: Cops take hours of video from gas station after clerk spots white car on night of stabbings

JMO

 

[wendy44]

I agree some unsavory characters probably visited the longtime party house. But they don't swab for DNA all over an entire house. Party house or not. They swab in areas of interest given the way the crime is thought to have occurred. Personally I do think it was odd they had unidentified DNA and seemingly just dismissed it. Yes-- I know some posters have insisted it didn't meet CODIS requirements or it was degraded or some other reason. But no one official has ever said that. The one cop said they would lose their "hit" if they entered more samples and got another hit. Frankly that sounded totally idiotic so who knows what LE was thinking.
MOO

I'm also curious to know about the CODIS thing. There is apparently some rebuttal testimony about this but I'm not sure we'll get to hear it. From the Defendant's Reply to State's Response to MIL 2 RE: Vague and Undisclosed Expert Testimony:

This disclosure increases her testimony about CODIS and why profiles were or were not uploaded. The decision and reason not to utilize CODIS for the two unknown male profiles has now been disclosed for the first time in over two years.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032425-Defendants-Reply-States-Response-Defs-MIL2-RE-Vague-Undisclosed-Expert-Testimony.pdf

 

[Justice101]

And someone of similar build and matching brybrows.

The mental gymnastics defy gravity.

Did this twin also steal coveralls, a balaclava from BK? Or BK tossed his purchases because.....?

There's no credible way to construct a SODDI because the SODDI winds up looking just like BK. Timing. Description. Attire. Elantra. Phone hole.

Unless he's an actual twin... with whom he was in lockstep.... and that makes no sense.

It remains that BK has no alibi for 4:09-4:20. His phone was off. His car isn't captured on any cameras anywhere, where previously and later it is.

And somehow the sheath to the Kbar he purchased 8 months prior winds up under the body of one of four victims who were slaughtered. How did it get there? Magic carpet ride? There's no imagination stretch. It was hand delivered, at some point between 4:09 an 4:20, having been couriered there by Elantra from Pullman.

Inventing a third party creates explanation difficulties that aren't supported by the evidence.

JMO

Yes, we are all saying these things and WE ourselves are MUCH MORE CRITICAL of evidence than the average juror.

This trial will be very damning to BK.

I wonder if he will plead guilt at the last moment. What say you???

 

[Megnut]

Yes, we are all saying these things and WE ourselves are MUCH MORE CRITICAL of evidence than the average juror.

This trial will be very damning to BK.

I wonder if he will plead guilt at the last moment. What say you???

It would be A GIFT (to AT) if BK plead guilty to all the charges, spared everyone a trial, in exchange for taking the DP off the sentencing table.

IMO AT had a DUTY (and exercised it) to present BK with the reality of the capital case against him.

I think BK is driving this (Defense) bus.

He has nothing to gain and nothing to lose.

Even a death sentence promises him probably decades of appeal. I think that's probably attractive to him.

So, no. I don't think he'll ever plead guilty. On any level or for any reason. He doesn't want to fall victim to anonymity. He didn't mean to get caught, would have IMO gone on to murder again, but now, he knows he's not getting out, so it's all have to him. Bet he still thinks he's the smartest person in the room. In the courtroom even.

And he'll watch it play out. Smiling inwardly, thumbs upping because he's taken everyone virtually as hostage. Watching it like a TV show, from the front row.

Enjoying the aftermath. Basking in it.

Sadistic.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, we are all saying these things and WE ourselves are MUCH MORE CRITICAL of evidence than the average juror.

This trial will be very damning to BK.

I wonder if he will plead guilt at the last moment. What say you???

Agreed, very damning to BK, too many coincidentals to be a coincidence.

I believe BK will play this out to the bitter end. I don't think the State will offer a plea, and I don't think AT would be able to convince BK to suggest one.

It's part of his end game. His last chance to be a 'somebody'. What does BK have to lose in taking it all the way? Nothing. Even if found guilty and sentenced with a DP charge, it's not likely to happen for many years, if ever. I think the continued engagement with LE and Judicial System is one of the few things that gives BK any feelings at all.

He'll get to relive the total experience through gruesome crime scene pictures and testimony, see the utter catastrophic carnage he left behind, get out of his cell every day, sit beside his pretty blonde lawyer, and see the unimaginable pain on the faces of the victim's families and their loved ones, including his own. I think he'll enjoy that.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It would be A GIFT (to AT) if BK plead guilty to all the charges, spared everyone a trial, in exchange for taking the DP off the sentencing table.

IMO AT had a DUTY (and exercised it) to present BK with the reality of the capital case against him.

I think BK is driving this (Defense) bus.

He has nothing to gain and nothing to lose.

Even a death sentence promises him probably decades of appeal. I think that's probably attractive to him.

So, no. I don't think he'll ever plead guilty. On any level or for any reason. He doesn't want to fall victim to anonymity. He didn't mean to get caught, would have IMO gone on to murder again, but now, he knows he's not getting out, so it's all have to him. Bet he still thinks he's the smartest person in the room. In the courtroom even.

And he'll watch it play out. Smiling inwardly, thumbs upping because he's taken everyone virtually as hostage. Watching it like a TV show, from the front row.

Enjoying the aftermath. Basking in it.

Sadistic.

JMO

Hey Megs, we typed basically the same thing at the same time. Get outta my head friend.

 

[SteveP]

Hey Megs, we typed basically the same thing at the same time. Get outta my head friend.

Well, since you both have already said what I would have said, I will just chime in with a "me three". He knows that he is almost certainly never going to walk free, but he is going to stay in the limelight as long as he can, before he finally is sentenced to life in a 10x12 cell, if he is lucky., and if the penalty is death, he will likely be tied up in appeals for years and years. JMO

 

[Boxer]

Yes, we are all saying these things and WE ourselves are MUCH MORE CRITICAL of evidence than the average juror.

This trial will be very damning to BK.

I wonder if he will plead guilt at the last moment. What say you???

MOO he will not plead guilty as that ends the circus, he is cooked and knows it, he wants to see the murder pictures and the family anguish, likes to see police doing their thing.
It would take compassion to plead guilty and MOO he has none. Not for his Dad, not for the families of the victims and not for the victims themselves.

 

[Ghostwheel]

RSBM The one cop said they would lose their "hit" if they entered more samples and got another hit. Frankly that sounded totally idiotic so who knows what LE was thinking.
MOO

Right? That is all I have to say on that.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The defense's own DNA expert says that it is BK's DNA on the sheath.

The defense plans to argue that this "fact" does not prove Kohberger was at the crime scene and the knife sheath itself could have been planted by the real perpetrator.

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger finally reveals his defense

The 30-year-old criminology PhD student is facing the death penalty for the savage stabbing deaths of four students in Moscow , Idaho, on November 13 2022.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Prosecutors wrote in the State’s Response to Defendant’s Motion to exclude IGG evidence:

"Instead of challenging the conclusion that the DNA on the knife sheath belonged to Defendant, the defense’s expert disclosures reveal that the defense plans to argue the DNA on the knife sheath does not prove Defendant was ever at the crime scene and the knife sheath itself could have been planted by the real perpetrator."

"The defense has not disclosed any experts to challenge the confirmatory STR comparison showing the DNA on the knife sheath matched Defendant’s DNA. On the contrary, the defense has disclosed that its Forensic Biology and DNA expert will testify that there is good support that Mr. Kohberger’s DNA was found on Item 1.1, a swab from the knife sheath."

Really.
You have to try super hard to be this stupid.
The Delphi defense was a circus and a lot of other things, but this is just stupid.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

MOO he will not plead guilty as that ends the circus, he is cooked and knows it, he wants to see the murder pictures and the family anguish, likes to see police doing their thing.
It would take compassion to plead guilty and MOO he has none. Not for his Dad, not for the families of the victims and not for the victims themselves.

I agree he will not plead guilty.
He still thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. Still thinks he’ll get away with it. Still thinks he planned the perfect crime.
After his perfect crime is torn down to nothing during the trial, I expect he will demand to take the stand so he can point out what a great plan it was, exulting in the attention and reveling in the disgust and shock he has caused.
He expected to have a long career as a serial killer and once he realizes that it ends here, he will play it up for all it’s worth.
Just how I’m thinking about it.

 

[Boxer]

I agree he will not plead guilty.
He still thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. Still thinks he’ll get away with it. Still thinks he planned the perfect crime.
After his perfect crime is torn down to nothing during the trial, I expect he will demand to take the stand so he can point out what a great plan it was, exulting in the attention and reveling in the disgust and shock he has caused.
He expected to have a long career as a serial killer and once he realizes that it ends here, he will play it up for all it’s worth.
Just how I’m thinking about it.

If all the vital evidence is suppressed, he would in fact get away with it. Thats the defense's entire game plan.

 

[katydid23]

not entirely sure of this dna under the nails talk though? whatzs its relevance? was it even bk's dna? someone said it was inconclusive? does that then mean it was a mix?

It was reportedly a 3 way mix---I'm guessing it was mm's and kg's mixed with a 3rd person. The state claims it was inconclusive who the 3rd was. The D is apparently going to say BK was ruled out.

 

[katydid23]

If all the vital evidence is suppressed, he would in fact get away with it. Thats the defense's entire game plan.

Thank Goodness we have Hippler as the judge this time. He seems to be a 'no nonsense' guy and he asks key questions. He will not suppress any evidence that is sound, legally admissible and relevant, imo.

 

[jepop]

Warrants plural. Dec 23 2022

State
Search warrants for his AT&T records were executed on December 23, 2022. At this point, timing advance records were not available for Bryan Kohberger’s phone to cover the relevant time period - November 13, 2022.

On Dec 23, no TAR for Nov 13th per AJ.
IMO Nov 13 is most important but there are other times in the long warrant are also important.
JMO

State
Despite Defendant’s repeated assertions, the fact of the matter is that AT&T did not provide Timing Advance Records to law enforcement for Bryan Kohberger’s phone. The State is attaching Affidavits from AT&T verifying that the State did not receive timing advance records for Bryan Kohberger’s phone

The two Dec 23rd warrants.
The first warrant was for a short period.
The second warrant was for 6 months.
Mr Gordon mentions both in his affidavit.
SR mentions both.
AJ mentions both and Nov 13th.

There should at least be 7 days of requested TARS for BK just prior to Dec 23rd in the return of the long warrant, IF GLDC did this.
JMO

SR
In 2022 the FBI obtained AT&T Timing Advance records from another source, outside of GLDC.

What is the retention limit for this other FBI source?
The new GLDC retention is 13 months.
JMO


Exactly.
GLDC or other channel?
An affidavit from Mr. Jackson, the person who was actually involved the early ATRs in this case, would be appropriate.
JMO

SR
c.Law Enforcement also requested a tower dump. consisting of AT&T Timing Advance data. This request involved AT&T providing all of the connections between two specific cell sites in Moscow during a two-hour period. The data produced was AT&T Timing Advance data. In all. there were over 3800 AT&T mobile phones identified in the Timing Advance tower dump data

When LE asked for this tower dump including TAD (within 7 day retention period NOV), LE was able to get them, In 2022.

BKs phone was not in this two hour, two tower data dump.


State
These records were not routinely provided in response to legal demand prior to June 2023. After June 2023, AT&T started providing these records pursuant to legal demand
We know the State got records in 2022.
JMO

SR
a. Two of the victims had AT&T phones. Law Enforcement obtained AT&T Timing data on both of their phones.
b. Law Enforcement developed an early investigative lead in this case. That person had an AT&T phone at the time of the crime. Law Enforcement obtained his AT&T Timing Advance data.

Three 2023 Warrants with 2022 TAR requests.
Would like to see the return on these.

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger

JMO

Hard to believe that the State/FBI did not obtain the ATRs of the person they arrested and charged.
Did the State already had BKs ATR reports from some other source?
Maybe it was a "group" decision?
JMO

Did the State or FBI request BKs ATR records in Pullman?
Near Blaine?
In Moscow on any tower?
At any time before or after his arrest?
After June 2023 when records were available to LE?
By any source?
JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032625+Defendants+Notice+of+Filing+Affidavit+iso+Obj+to+the+States+MIL+RE+ATT+Timing+Advance+Records.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032425-States+Reply+to+Defendants+Objection+to+the+States+MIL+RE+ATT+Timing+Advance+Records.pdf

All JMO

Just in relation to the part I bolded in your post above: What's the relevance of BK's number being absent from the 16th/17th Nov 2022 geo fence warrant returns( tower dumps)? We already know BK's phone was not in the tower dumps for the two hours around the murders, we know it was disconnected from the network. This has been common knowledge since Jan 2023 PCA release.

Just recently it's been confirmed that BK's phone was off (as opposed to out of range or dead battery). Imo this has to have been known to both sides since the forensic analysis of BK's phone was finalised, some time in first half of 2023. Logs very likely showed both turning on and turning off events, just like they did in the Murdaugh trial. Moo

Regarding Sy Ray's and the defense's accusations: Imo the x2 AT&T warrants of relevance were issued and returned on 23rd Dec, which is six weeks after 13th Nov. Those warrants sought historical TARs for Nov 14th and earlier. On 23rd Dec 2022 there would have been no TARs for BK earlier than 16th Dec. Imo not retained for more than seven days means not retained for more than seven days. The 23rd Dec warrants did not ask for historical TARs for 16th Dec to 23rd Dec.

 

[SteveP]

If all the vital evidence is suppressed, he would in fact get away with it. Thats the defense's entire game plan.

It may be their game plan, but it is a game plan that they surely know is not going to succeed. AT is doing her job, but she has seen all of the evidence, and she knows that she is very unlikely to get enough thrown out that any juror may find reasonable doubt. This appears to be one of the strongest cases, for the state, that I have ever followed, in my many years here. JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

It may be their game plan, but it is a game plan that they surely know is not going to succeed. AT is doing her job, but she has seen all of the evidence, and she knows that she is very unlikely to get enough thrown out that any juror may find reasonable doubt. This appears to be one of the strongest cases, for the state, that I have ever followed, in my many years here. JMO

As experienced as AT is (including being death-penalty qualified), I agree it's quite unlikely she thought massive suppression was going to happen. This is hardly her first case or even one of her first cases. She's doing her job & in my opinion, she's doing it very well. However, I expect her vision is pretty clear about what's likely to happen.
MOO

 

[mrjitty]

The AT&T data you highlight in your post, which is referenced by Sy Ray in his affidavit, is not BK's for Nov 13th just to be clear here. He is referencing the data LE obtained for the tower dump, two of the victims and a third person. All of this data was requested via MPD warrants ( and likely made available via the FBI's non GLDC channel) within seven days of Nov 13th and thus retrievable. Moo

The State's response to defense's objection ( you linked above) clarifies two things. 1) that AT &T did not routinely provide timing advance data prior to June 2023 by legal demand (ie GLDC IMO) and 2) prior to June 2023 AT&T only retained such data for seven days. Moo nothing in the sworn affidavit under pain of perjury by AT&T employee Mr Gordon contradicts that. AT&T never supplied either the FBI or MPD via warrant with advance timing data for BK for Nov 13th. IMO

Sy Ray has made some extremely dubious and imo foolish accusations in his affidavit. Imo the FBI did what it does outside the GLDC channel to ensure MPD received timing advance data for the tower dump etc as mentioned above, and this worked because those records were requested within the seven day retention period.

From the state's response as noted above, it can be logically inferred that the FBI were unsuccessful in obtaining AT&T timing advance data for BK (probably attempted between 19th and 23rd Dec) using their non GLDC related channel. Thus, when MPD issued their standard warrant for BK's phone records, including timing advance (as they had done prior with earlier warrants) AT&T was unable to provide the timing advance data. Jmo

I hope Judge Hippler reverses his decision after reading this affidavit by Sy Ray with it's speculative and inflammatory accusations against Ashley Jennings, SE Balance and the entire prosecution. Imo it would be best to definitively show up his accusations as false which the state would achieve with ease under cross Imo.

However, given testimony might be time consuming because AT&T employees (Gordon and perhaps others down the chain), Ashley Jennings and even SE Balance might need to testify, maybe Hippler will elect to review sworn affidavits of AJ and any additional relevant employees of AT&,T, and possibly SE Balance if required. Given the speculative and quite frankly slanderous nature of SY Ray's accusations, I don't think the state will have a problem getting a sworn affidavit from SE Balance at this point. Jmo

Moo, this is a massive mis-step by the defense. Judge Hippler will want this put to rest and I look forward to his future ruling and accompanying memorandum in favour of the prosecution. Sy Ray has really got this wrong and he won't walk away from this without that being shown to the Court and the public. All Moo.

Thanks for this post

There was a time when I would have dug into the allegations of this affidavit given how much LYK appeared to hype it, but when I realised it was from Sy Ray i knew it would be debunked before long.

I don't think that guy is a credible witness at all based on the recent posts about him from @MassGuy