4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

They should lock them all up in a house.

It'd be interesting to know how killers and violating abusers would all behave if they were forced to live amongst each other in a secure but communal shared house, without being locked in cells or hands on security guards. Wonder if they'd start killing each other or suchlike?

JMO MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Nothing exciting today. At least we're only a couple days away from the hearing.

• NewOrder Sealing Defendants Notice RE Defense Expert Disclosure - Exhbit D7-B
• NewStipulated Motion to Seal Defendants Notice RE Defense Expert Disclosure - Exhbit D7-B

 

[russoca]

I'm not sure you understand the repercussions of the forthcoming decision for the Timing Advance Motion. We will see what happens.

The repercussions are that Sy (forget last name) forgot to mention in his statement that AT&T had a 7 day retention for the TAM at that time. About 20-25 threads ago it was discussed quite a bit.
So, both D and P are not missing anything, because what could be obtained was. Hmmm, that's very interesting Sy.

MOO

 

[detectivewannab]

It'd be interesting to know how killers and violating abusers would all behave if they were forced to live amongst each other in a secure but communal shared house, without being locked in cells or hands on security guards. Wonder if they'd start killing each other or suchlike?

JMO MOO

To he fair... each one should get weapon of choice. Let them go. Bryan would ve the smartest one. Lol

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

To he fair... each one should get weapon of choice. Let them go. Bryan would ve the smartest one. Lol

Yikes @detectivewannab …. and I have no disagreement with your suggestion - although I don’t even know where to begin with the original post’s suggestion SMH - but as to your good critique of it, I would add this one inclusion. Each defendant wouldn’t get their ‘choice’ of weapon, but rather would each be given only the weapon they decided to use in the crime for which they were convicted. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Upcoming interview with Statesman reporter, Kevin Fixler.

Airs in a couple hours.

 

[Balthazar]

The repercussions are that Sy (forget last name) forgot to mention in his statement that AT&T had a 7 day retention for the TAM at that time. About 20-25 threads ago it was discussed quite a bit.
So, both D and P are not missing anything, because what could be obtained was. Hmmm, that's very interesting Sy.

MOO

What I'm interested in observing is a legal issue. It has nothing whatsoever to do with data retention or even guilt or innocence of the defendant. I'm referring the the Judge's options in ruling on the Timing Advance Records. He has only 2 ways he could rule as far as I can determine BUT either option will lead to the same result. So I'm very interested in seeing how this goes as I suspect the ruling will be on the 9th or maybe shortly afterwards unless the judge chooses to ignore the Motion, which I don't think he would or should. Should make for an interesting week in this case.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[LinasK]

Yep. BK affirmed under questioning from the judge at appearances in Jan and May 2023 ( arraignment ) that he was of sound mind and understood the charges against him. AT will never get a ruling that he is incompetent to stand trial. Ridiculous. She will never convince a jury via experts at sentencing that he did not understand murder is wrong or that he didn't understand he had murdered people. Jmo

And I can't see how she will be able to make a coherent and non-laughable guilt phase defense that diagnosed OCD and/or autism mean that BK could not have murdered anybody when all the evidence says um yeah he did. That's about all these diagnoses could be used for during guilt phase and if somehow that is what AT attempts it will be a complete joke. I can't imagine her attempting that at trial. OTOH, who really knows. Just witness the lengths of mis- characterisation and accusation which moo defense seem willing to traverse, over what I believe will be proven to be non existent AT&T timing advance records for BK!! Jmo

On date of diagnosis: The defense fail to provide a date for historical diagnoses. I'm assuming the autism diagnosis is only recent and instigated by the defense. Note, the experts are claiming he exhibited symptoms in earlier life ( presumably through interviews with BK and research with his family?) but stop short of claiming he was ever diagnosed. If the diagnosis was old, the date would be in the defense filings imo. I think everything points to this being a case of retrospective diagnosis. Jmo

Yup, as I previously stated my VSS only gives me flashy light bars on the sides of my eyes as a precurser to migraines (I saw an Opthamologist for it), doesn't tell me to murder someone.

 

[sassyblue]

Yup, as I previously stated my VSS only gives me flashy light bars on the sides of my eyes as a precurser to migraines (I saw an Opthamologist for it), doesn't tell me to murder someone.

Is VS what my ophthalmologist calls an ocular migraine? If so what a pathetic wussy man he is. I've suffered from ocular migraines for many, many years. Today was a very bad day....it has been black ocular circles and flashes of light all day. I managed to do my job and watch Lori Vallow Daybell bore me to tears too. Never felt the urge to murder anyone ever.

And here I've thought all along it was something so very debilitating that he had to deal with. Buck up buttercup Kohberger....what a sniveling piece of crap man he must be. No empathy and no human emotions of love or connection or sympathy? That isn't VS...that's pathological....a psycho category.

 

[LinasK]

Is VS what my ophthalmologist calls an ocular migraine? If so what a pathetic wussy man he is. I've suffered from ocular migraines for many, many years. Today was a very bad day....it has been black ocular circles and flashes of light all day. I managed to do my job and watch Lori Vallow Daybell bore me to tears too. Never felt the urge to murder anyone ever.

And here I've thought all along it was something so very debilitating that he had to deal with. Buck up buttercup Kohberger....what a sniveling piece of crap man he must be. No empathy and no human emotions of love or connection or sympathy? That isn't VS...that's pathological....a psycho category.

Yes it is. And I empathize with you. They are very painful and no fun.

 

[Justice101]

Is VS what my ophthalmologist calls an ocular migraine? If so what a pathetic wussy man he is. I've suffered from ocular migraines for many, many years. Today was a very bad day....it has been black ocular circles and flashes of light all day. I managed to do my job and watch Lori Vallow Daybell bore me to tears too. Never felt the urge to murder anyone ever.

And here I've thought all along it was something so very debilitating that he had to deal with. Buck up buttercup Kohberger....what a sniveling piece of crap man he must be. No empathy and no human emotions of love or connection or sympathy? That isn't VS...that's pathological....a psycho category.

Agree.

These weak arguments get (justified) eye rolls from the public... and usually the jury too.

When you hear about that, it is usually a last ditch effort. hail mary that almost never works.

 

[10ofRods]

Is VS what my ophthalmologist calls an ocular migraine? If so what a pathetic wussy man he is. I've suffered from ocular migraines for many, many years. Today was a very bad day....it has been black ocular circles and flashes of light all day. I managed to do my job and watch Lori Vallow Daybell bore me to tears too. Never felt the urge to murder anyone ever.

And here I've thought all along it was something so very debilitating that he had to deal with. Buck up buttercup Kohberger....what a sniveling piece of crap man he must be. No empathy and no human emotions of love or connection or sympathy? That isn't VS...that's pathological....a psycho category.

VSS is different from optical migraines, but apparently a related neurological phenomenon. It involves psychiatric symptoms not present in any migraine. I posted the links to the studies yesterday, I believe. It's more closely related to syndromes of derealization and depersonalization (which are part of schizophrenia, but can be part of VSS and a syndrome they're calling Alice in Wonderland Syndrome).
You're right that this is related to psychosis. And there are several related syndromes that have the same effect of removing ordinary human connection. Not all VSS sufferers have the derealization and depersonalization, but VSS sufferers have those symptoms at a far higher rate than people without VSS. BK reports these symptoms in his writings at age 14. He feels nothing for his family, can't understand why. I've taken histories from several people with these symptoms and the only parallel I can think of in my own life is a fugue state (most people have them - but some VSS sufferers are in this strange state all the time.

Derealization is a pervasive feeling that lived experience isn't actually real (the sufferer feels as if they are dreaming or in a movie). Depersonalization is an inability to understand that other humans are persons, just like oneself.

Depersonalization-derealization disorder - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

It's a real syndrome on its own, it just has a higher incidence in VSS.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Is VS what my ophthalmologist calls an ocular migraine?

No, they are completely different conditions.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes it is. And I empathize with you. They are very painful and no fun.

No, it is not.

Visual Snow:

Visual Snow Syndrome (Static Vision)

With visual snow syndrome, you see static whether your eyes are open or shut. Learn more about what it's like looking through a shaken snow globe.

my.clevelandclinic.org

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-minute-visual-snow/

Ocular Migraine:

Ocular Migraine

Ocular migraine involves attacks of visual issues that affect one eye and migraine headaches.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Don't confuse a serious condition with something minor

Flashes of light, zigzagging patterns and temporary blindness — what does it all mean?

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

VSS is different from optical migraines, but apparently a related neurological phenomenon. It involves psychiatric symptoms not present in any migraine. I posted the links to the studies yesterday, I believe. It's more closely related to syndromes of derealization and depersonalization (which are part of schizophrenia, but can be part of VSS and a syndrome they're calling Alice in Wonderland Syndrome).

Derealization and depersonalization are classic symptoms of ANXIETY, not schizophrenia. Good old Generalized Anxiety or Panic Disorder can include symptoms of derealization and/or depersonalization. While some with schizophrenia may experience derealization/depersonalization it is definitely not a feature of schizophrenia.

It's also not a diagnostic criteria for VSS, though can be associated with it.

You're right that this is related to psychosis.

No, it is not. Pick up a DSM. Depersonalization/Derealization are considered dissociative symptoms and are part of PTSD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Panic Disorder at far higher rates than any psychotic disorder.

Some with psychotic disorders may also experience derealization or depersonalization, just as they may experience depression or anxiety. But derealization and depersonalization are not a symptom of psychosis nor are they associated with any defining features of psychosis or psychotic disorders. They are dissociative disorders.

And there are several related syndromes that have the same effect of removing ordinary human connection. Not all VSS sufferers have the derealization and depersonalization, but VSS sufferers have those symptoms at a far higher rate than people without VSS. BK reports these symptoms in his writings at age 14. He feels nothing for his family, can't understand why. I've taken histories from several people with these symptoms and the only parallel I can think of in my own life is a fugue state (most people have them - but some VSS sufferers are in this strange state all the time.

Derealization is a pervasive feeling that lived experience isn't actually real (the sufferer feels as if they are dreaming or in a movie). Depersonalization is an inability to understand that other humans are persons, just like oneself.

Inaccurate. Depersonalization is detachment from YOURSELF, not "an inability to understand that other humans are persons."

From the link you posted:

• Feelings that you're seeing your thoughts, feelings, or body or parts of your body from the outside. For example, you may feel like you're floating in the air above yourself.
• Feeling like a robot or that you're not in control of what you say or how you move.
• The sense that your body, legs or arms appear twisted or like they're not the right shape. Or they may seem larger or smaller than usual. You also could feel that your head is wrapped in cotton.
• Emotional or physical numbness of your senses or responses to the world around you.
• A sense that your memories lack emotion, and they may or may not be your own memories.

 

[NCWatcher]

L

Derealization and depersonalization are classic symptoms of ANXIETY, not schizophrenia. Good old Generalized Anxiety or Panic Disorder can include symptoms of derealization and/or depersonalization. While some with schizophrenia may experience derealization/depersonalization it is definitely not a feature of schizophrenia.

It's also not a diagnostic criteria for VSS, though can be associated with it.



No, it is not. Pick up a DSM. Depersonalization/Derealization are considered dissociative symptoms and are part of PTSD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Panic Disorder at far higher rates than any psychotic disorder.

Some with psychotic disorders may also experience derealization or depersonalization, just as they may experience depression or anxiety. But derealization and depersonalization are not a symptom of psychosis nor are they associated with any defining features of psychosis or psychotic disorders. They are dissociative disorders.



Inaccurate. Depersonalization is detachment from YOURSELF, not "an inability to understand that other humans are persons."

From the link you posted:

• Feelings that you're seeing your thoughts, feelings, or body or parts of your body from the outside. For example, you may feel like you're floating in the air above yourself.
• Feeling like a robot or that you're not in control of what you say or how you move.
• The sense that your body, legs or arms appear twisted or like they're not the right shape. Or they may seem larger or smaller than usual. You also could feel that your head is wrapped in cotton.
• Emotional or physical numbness of your senses or responses to the world around you.
• A sense that your memories lack emotion, and they may or may not be your own memories.

Totally agree. It's also the case that many people without a disorder may experience occasional depersonalization/derealization under stress. Obviously it can be drug-induced too but it happens to ordinary people without drugs sometimes. Definitely "ordinary people" are not regularly experiencing psychotic symptoms.
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

BBM
He started giving better grades as a TA. Between the murders and Christmas break.

I've often wondered if he would ever go back

How would he explain that to his dad?

Right, like his just was giving everyone an easy pass.

<modsnip: No source to substantiate that BK is a prolific liar> BK could have come up with any kind of story to spin his being fired and not wanting to return where they didn't understand and appreciate his true genius. <total sarcasm, but also possible IMO>

Sad to think that BK's parents have likely dealt with his behavioral issues and consequences for a long time. I believe they really thought he might have a shot at WSU. They're victims too.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1909674125632885161

 

[MassGuy]

Momentous evidentiary hearings await Bryan Kohberger ahead of Idaho student murder trial:


More than 170 legal filings with considerable implications for trial in the University of Idaho student homicides case are set to near their resolution as defendant Bryan Kohberger returns to the courtroom Wednesday. Since February, the prosecution and defense have traded more than 1,000 pages of court records over a variety of evidence. Each side has postured to limit the way certain details may be presented to a jury, while ensuring their own elements, including data and witness testimony, make the cut. Judge Steven Hippler has scheduled oral arguments that could extend into Thursday to hear final justification for which evidence to include. His decisions on the so-called motions in limine could prove to be the difference for a conviction at Kohberger’s summer capital murder trial.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article303698586.html#storylink=cpy

Among the leading information the defense seeks to block at trial is digital data from their client’s Amazon account. Prosecutors alleged Kohberger bought a Ka-Bar brand knife, sheath and sharpener in March 2022 from the online shopping giant, and later searched for the same knife and sheath after the students’ deaths. Police found a Ka-Bar leather knife sheath at the crime scene, which included DNA later linked to Kohberger, according to the probable cause affidavit.

The defense also asked to exclude the testimony of an Idaho State Police crime lab manager on behalf of the prosecution about the ways in which so-called “touch” or “contact” DNA can arrive on an item. Based on the defense’s submitted expert witness list, prosecutors asserted Kohberger’s attorneys will argue at trial that the sheath with Kohberger’s DNA was planted at the crime scene.

The two sides also are expected to square off over how text messages between the two surviving roommates and a 911 call made on one of their cellphones factor into the state’s time frame of the killings. Transcripts of the early morning texts and audio of the 911 call were both publicly released for the first time last month, and both the defense and prosecution have picked over elements of the evidence to carve out pieces they would like included at trial. In addition, whether to allow specific testimony from one of the surviving roommates, who told police she saw a masked man in all black in the home on the morning of the homicides, will play a central role during this week’s hearings. The roommate said she saw a man with “bushy eyebrows,” which the defense argued jurors would believe directly identifies him as the perpetrator.

Led by Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson, prosecutors asked to place limits on an alibi defense previously submitted by Kohberger, that he was out driving alone at the time of the homicides outside of Moscow. They seek to force Kohberger to testify to make such an argument, while the defense plans to provide “partial corroboration” from a cellphone data expert and rejects that only their client could speak to his whereabouts on the stand at trial.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article303698586.html#storylink=cpy