4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #104

[Teche]

Splitting hairs with “ASD” didn’t exist when he was a child…… the official diagnostic manual DSM, gets updated & re-published over time.
In 2013, they combined some diagnoses under a “new” wider category called ASD to FD ilitate diagnosing. “autism disorder” existed when he was a child and still does….

She’s gonna flounder all around Autism, it’s only thing she’s got to work with but it isn’t going to alibi, explain, excuse, exonerate MURDER. IMO, he’s got some other diagnosis with ASD-like behaviors. AT happy to say ASD, but can’t introduce the other diagnoses.

History of Autism diagnoses

A history of Autism diagnostic criteria

A brief history of how Autism Spectrum Disorder has been classified in the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual (DSM), and information about the different types of Autism Spectrum Disorders.

www.human.health

After reviewing the DSM-5, BK looks to me he fits the Social Communicative Disorder arena. Missing the social cues, etc.

 

[Megnut]

I don't think he was diagnosed as anything as a child.

AT's representation that he was misdiagnosed is her way of saying based on her expert he  could have been or maybe  would have been diagnosed with ASD (or maybe at that time, with Asperger's) which is a sneaky way of sidestepping the obvious -- that he had no actual diagnosis as a child and still doesn't.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

After reviewing the DSM-5, BK looks to me he fits the Social Communicative Disorder arena. Missing the social cues, etc.

He might have ALL the disorders. Jurors might even begin to feel sorry for him, if AT has her way, but there's nothing in his particular soup of disorders to divorce him from his own actions which show he knew right from wrong, he prepared for his crime and cleaned up after it.

Personality disorders do not protect one from the DP, they're not even mental illnesses they're just disordered personality types.

But I'm not even sure AT has met the threshold for her experts or her claims so we haven't seen the final draft for what ultimately the jury will even hear.

The judge did take some matters under advisement yesterday, could the Defense the extreme favor IMO of doing their jobs for them, for example highlighting the actual parts of the traffic stop video that might be peejuducial to the defendant. Asking the judge to throw out virtually every aspect of the State's case was never going to fly, but now the judge is left to protect the defendant from the Defense. Ugh.

Jmo

 

[arielilane]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Ada County CR01-24-31665

Current Case Summary


4/7/2025

• NewOrder Sealing Defendants Notice RE Defense Expert Disclosure - Exhbit D7-B

4/4/2025

• NewStipulated Motion to Seal Defendants Notice RE Defense Expert Disclosure - Exhbit D7-B

4/3/2025

• Order Sealing Exhibit S1

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger

 

[arielilane]

@JuliaCourtTV


Judge in #BryanKohberger grants a defense motion to block use of the term “psychopath” or “sociopath” to refer to the accused during trial. Witnesses nor attorneys can use these terms. Judge confirmed no testing has been done to make this kind of a diagnosis.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1910029813483725301

 

[whowy]

I am confused. The Defense wants to tell the Jury during their Opening statements about his ASD. IMO, they don't want jurors to make their own opinion about why he does not respond appropriately, the Defense wants to tell them why.

And....he had those (fine motor skills, dexterity) issues as a child.

The defense is also using the ASD as to why he can not testify.

IMO, Oh boy!

Wonder what, if any role his prior opioid addiction played in his current demeanor/ dexterity issues. Will State be allowed to address that?

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Maybe. I'm not sure though IF his case was as described (without intellectual or language impairment) what academic accomodations he would have qualified for or needed.
MOO

It’s been reported that -
He did senior year “online” and had been in a “technical program” for 2 years.
I have no idea if any of that means anything …

 

[Justice101]

Still trying to follow all the motions filed. And still way behind

thanks!

 

[NCWatcher]

It’s been reported that -
He did senior year “online” and had been in a “technical program” for 2 years.
I have no idea if any of that means anything …

Neither do I. In fact, I was shocked when school officials publicly revealed that information to a reporter as it seems it would be information protected by FERPA. At any rate, @Teche's comment I was responding to asked if he had educational accomodations in "grade school."
MOO

 

[Megnut]

Wonder what, if any role his prior opioid addiction played in his current demeanor/ dexterity issues. Will State be allowed to address that?

If I had to guess, this is precisely why AT has been so vague and wordful. She wants to make the association that BK should have have diagnosed with ASD as a child and it carries over, but she falls short of an actual diagnosis. Full absence of any diagnostics. An "expert" who will likely testify that individuals with ASD behave such a way blah blah blah and BK behaved a certain way ... at 8 and 29... without specifics....

Because she wants to give the State nothing to work. No invite. Because she doesn't want to let in prior bad acts, documented medical records, etc, etc.

IMO AT wants to sneak in an expert that the State can't vet and review, possibly even bring in a mitigating expert for Phase II into Phase I.

She's not going to be very successful though because the judge has her number.

Jmo

 

[arielilane]

@Angenette5


Interesting - #BryanKohberger's lawyer, Elissa Massoth, says despite the State saying it may call his family members as witnesses, his family has no interest in helping the State and the only reason they don't attend the pretrial hearings in-person is b/c they don't have the money to do so



12:05 PM · Apr 9, 2025




@PhilipCDube


The state has to pay for the transportation and accommodation expenses of any witness.


12:32 PM · Apr 9, 2025

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That was my reaction too.

If he had that condition (bedwetting late in childhood) and if she cited it, every head would snap to the triad which is probably a better psychological fit than ASD, although there's nothing preventing a dual diagnosis.

The Macdonald triad has been thoroughly debunked in medical science to the point that those in the mental health profession would actually laugh out loud if the prosecutor went there with bed-wetting. This is an outdated theory from the 1960s that holds as much weight among the medical community as leeches. It's only in pop culture and social media where people find the connection. But AT could easily line about two dozen experts to debunk it. Cruelty to animals and fire-setting are known symptoms, that combined with a set of other symptoms, can suggest a childhood disorder that MAY be a precursor to anti-social personality disorder. Bed-wetting is not part of that construct.

 

[gremlin444]

Maybe. I'm not sure though IF his case was as described (without intellectual or language impairment) what academic accomodations he would have qualified for or needed.
MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032425-Defendants-Reply-States-Resp-Defs-Motion-Strike-Death-Penalty-RE-Autism-Spectrum-Disorder.pdf

from the defense:

" Very early in his education he was treated as a child with special needs, evaluated psychologically, and provided with instructional support. He was observed as “rocking” in the classroom, inattentive, and he had poor fine motor skills. He received reading support, speech therapy, reminders to stay on tasks, more time for homework, and organizational support. "

Those accommodations could fall under either a 504 plan or an IEP.

 

[Warwick7]

Smack down by Judge Hilppler!!!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1910422663698555212

 

[NCWatcher]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032425-Defendants-Reply-States-Resp-Defs-Motion-Strike-Death-Penalty-RE-Autism-Spectrum-Disorder.pdf

from the defense:

" Very early in his education he was treated as a child with special needs, evaluated psychologically, and provided with instructional support. He was observed as “rocking” in the classroom, inattentive, and he had poor fine motor skills. He received reading support, speech therapy, reminders to stay on tasks, more time for homework, and organizational support. "

Those accommodations could fall under either a 504 plan or an IEP.

Ok. Thanks. That's not what their "expert" PsyD was quoted as saying a few days before I don't think.

Perhaps school districts vary (despite it being federal law) but I didn't think speech therapy fell under a 504 plan.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032425-Defendants-Reply-States-Resp-Defs-Motion-Strike-Death-Penalty-RE-Autism-Spectrum-Disorder.pdf

from the defense:

" Very early in his education he was treated as a child with special needs, evaluated psychologically, and provided with instructional support. He was observed as “rocking” in the classroom, inattentive, and he had poor fine motor skills. He received reading support, speech therapy, reminders to stay on tasks, more time for homework, and organizational support. "

Those accommodations could fall under either a 504 plan or an IEP.

So the bottom line is, they lied. They said they had two elledged expert mental health evaluations on Kohberger. Thus why prosecution (Joshua Hewitt) requested the test results and the facts supporting the experts’ conclusions...

 

[gremlin444]

Ok. Thanks. That's not what their "expert" PsyD was quoted as saying a few days before I don't think.

Perhaps school districts vary (despite it being federal law) but I didn't think speech therapy fell under a 504 plan.

MOO

It doesn't, and I should have addressed the speech part separately.

A student can receive speech therapy at school in several ways that don't require an IEP--such as through testing and participation in an early identification program (our district offers the evaluation to all preschoolers who can then start speech therapy immediately and continue to receive it in grade school). I do not currently have at hand the paperwork that describes the names/initials of the other two ways.

 

[NCWatcher]

It doesn't, and I should have addressed the speech part separately.

A student can receive speech therapy at school in several ways that don't require an IEP--such as through testing and participation in an early identification program (our district offers the evaluation to all preschoolers who can then start speech therapy immediately and continue to receive it in grade school). I do not currently have at hand the paperwork that describes the names/initials of the other two ways.

Thanks!

 

[Sachi]

So the bottom line is, they lied. They said they had two elledged expert mental health evaluations on Kohberger. Thus why prosecution (Joshua Hewitt) requested the test results and the facts supporting the experts’ conclusions...

Thank you Warwick!

 

[sunshineray]

Understanding right from wrong (the M'Naghten rule) is the classic test for insanity. The key time period is the time of the crime, not the time of the trial.

The questions for competence to stand trial are does the person understand the charges (at some level, not necessarily trained attorney level) and can the person aid in his own defense. The key time period is the time of the trial, not the time of the crime.

You may find these things to be the same thing regardless of time differences but courts & legal experts really do not.

A person could be judged incompetent to stand trial but that doesn't mean he/she was insane at the time of the crime. And obviously people competent to stand trial and capable of aiding in their own defense have been found to be insane at the time of the crime. So competence and sanity aren't the same thing. And competency to stand trial does not require the person to have had an existing mental health diagnosis at the time of the crime. That time period is largely irrelevant. What matters is the person's condition now.

If the issue of competence is raised (& it can be raised by the defense, the judge, or the state) the judge orders a competency hearing and an evaluation to be carried out by experts. Usually the evaluators are employed by the state at mental institutions. The experts make a recommendation about competency but the judge decides. He doesn't decide though on a few yes-no routine questions asked in open court. And if competency is an issue, it takes more than a defense attorney saying something vague in court during a hearing on multiple topics. It doesn't matter if some people think what the attorney said might refer to competency.

The matter of insanity is decided by the jury in states that allow insanity defenses. Most states do. Only 4 do not & that includes Idaho.
MOO

Yes and in understanding the charges one would understand murder is wrong., it's quite a simple concept.