4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #104

[Warwick7]

From the link on Page 1
Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)


2nd Floor

Thank you!

 

[Warwick7]

View attachment 579474

The house on King Road: A look at the Moscow home where four U of I students were killed - East Idaho News

(Idaho Statesman) — At 1122 King Road in Moscow sits a gray six-bedroom, three-bathroom house that continues to be the source of significant national attention. Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month...

www.eastidahonews.com

Thank you!

 

[Gemmie]

Does anyone remember where the bathroom was in the house? Was it next to Xana's room?

Yes.



Slide 6: https://1122tour.com/

 

[Warwick7]

Yes.

View attachment 579475

Slide 6: https://1122tour.com/

Thank you!

 

[wendy44]

Are we guessing or is it documented the sliding glass door in the kitchen was left open? I can't remember.

I think it might have been said in court recently. I'll have to check around but I think we just found this out.
JMO

 

[sunspun]

ASD

And as for this "other potential suspect,"
AT said she needs more time to view discovery, Judge was not happy about that.

Judge just called AT out. Reminding her she asked for a delay, which he granted, so why are they waiting until NOW to do this?

AT said they haven't had time to look at discovery.

She whined that there was hundreds of hours of street traffic to look through, and it wasn't all labeled w/specifics, so she has to try and look at each one to see when and where...

And I think she had expected the state to have looked at each one and put a label with date and location.

Hippler reminded AT she had taken on a new DP case since this one began - he asked why she would take this additional case on when she was already overwhelmed with BK’s. Ouch!!

Do you remember how she answered that? What possible answer could she have?? Seems like a bad idea on her part. If I were her other client, I think I'd be feeling slighted... not good when you're facing the death penalty.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't know that it was ever said. The only thing known was that DM observed the person in black the house headed towards the sliding door, we would assume to be heading out. Unless there was a window breached, rather than the sliding door. But just because someone exited that way doesn't mean they entered that way. A lot of people's theories have him exiting the sliding door and entering the sliding door.

It's the only thing that makes sense. He's not going to come in one way, and leave another. I fully believe he parked behind the house, which makes that door the most logical entry and exit point. He's not going to expose himself by leaving through the front door and walking back around or something.

 

[MassGuy]

The defense got their 3 most consequential high value wins:
Alternate Suspect Evidence
Alibi
AT&T Timing Advance Reports AND the opportunity to talk to Ballance.

The prosecution only got 1 of their own motions ruled in favor by the judge: Improper DP Comments - a very low value ruling.

The other rulings that went the prosecutions way were also low value:
Unnoticed 404b evidence
Amazon Click Activity
Make and Model of Vehicle

The rulings especially the more consequential rulings thus far are mostly in favor of the defense and on much more valuable issues. The more consequential rulings are important in shaping the trial and being able to determine how things will go in front of the jury. By evaluating the outcome of these hearings, we can learn a lot about the forthcoming trial. In fact, this is an important part of the science and art of trial consulting.

The alternate suspect thing is standard; they'll have to meet the burden prior to trial though.

The judge was always going to allow the defense to try and make an alibi out of the data point prior to his phone going dark. It's useless, but you can't cripple them by not allowing that.

Of course the defense was going to be allowed to ask Balance about those records. He'll say the same thing the state has said, and that will be that.

The Amazon click activity is MASSIVE evidence. I don't know how anyone can say that it was "low value." It will solidify not only the initial purchase, but demonstrate his efforts to purchase a replacement. All of that goes to showing that the sheath found at the murder scene is his, which the DNA already demonstrates.

Absolutely nothing occurred at that hearing that was unexpected, in my view.

 

[fcavanaugh]

Getting more people to review the discovery doesn't cure the problem the D has encountered with the discovery being produced piecemeal and deadlines not being met.

AT explained the circumstances when she took SMs case.
The D has met their deadlines despite AT handling two cases.
Does the State have too many cases and is that why they are not meeting deadlines?
The State was not ready with the self authentication certifications.
What has the State been doing for 2.5 years?
JMO


I thought she handled herself well.
JMO

Which just supports what the D argued about BKs presentation of ASD.
JMO

The motions she is filing are normal.
The only side that has mentioned a delay is the P.
During the last hearing, the D said that delaying the trial was not an acceptable remedy.
JMO

RSBMFF

“Getting more people to review the discovery doesn't cure the problem the D has encountered with the discovery being produced piecemeal and deadlines not being met.”
My point wasn’t about curing the problem. IMO the problem you’re referring to is not specific to just this case, been going on for years and I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
Sorry if my post wasn’t clear, my point was about AT complaining/whining that she/her team don’t have time to go through all the mega discovery and not hiring or asking for help she has available to her. It just makes logical sense to me to ask for help when you’re that far behind especially considering only 4 short months until trial with your client’s life on the line.
Anyway, back to the problem you referred to. IMO this case isn’t any different from many high profile cases with r/t discovery being produced piecemeal and deadlines not being met. As mentioned, this goes on in tons of cases and I can think of 2 recent High Profile cases I’m also following with discovery issues and P and the D going back and forth: D- we didn’t receive it yet from the state Judge, P- we sent everything we have to them Judge (sometimes the info the D claims they didn’t receive is buried in the mega files and the D missed/overlooked it), P- we’re still waiting for ‘x’ to submit the reports to us Judge so how can we send the D something we haven’t even received yet etc., etc., etc.
The Prosecution receives discovery piecemeal as investigations are ongoing and often times have to wait longer than expected for information requested from outside sources/entities to be provided to them. The Defense files motions to compel discovery or for supplemental discovery.
Judges extend discovery deadlines. This is all very, very common and especially in cases with voluminous discovery/mega terabytes of data/information like this one.
One case I follow the P was issued heavy sanctions for not adhering to the court granted discovery extension deadlines they were granted which ended up gutting the P’s case and they had no choice but to file motion to dismiss. In that case, they deserved it for mismanaging the case/not adhering to discovery extensions approved by the court. That is not the case here. At the hearing last week, Jennings said the Defense has what they requested and the Judge said he will likely require the prosecution to certify that it has disclosed all potentially exculpatory evidence that they are aware of and that the defense has not already flagged, and will issue his order later.

“The D has met their deadlines despite AT handling two cases.”
They didn’t meet the alibi demand deadline, the P asked for BK’s alibi and they didn’t produce it until over a year later and it’s not even a valid alibi. ‘My client was out driving around, just not over there’ Absurd. When the Judge mentioned that’s not an alibi and BK would need to testify r/t his alibi, AT (for obvious reasons doesn’t want BK
to testify), told the Judge she has a witness that could testify about his whereabouts when his phone was off at the time in question based on an affidavit by SR who never mentions the 7 day TAR retention period (which the Prosecution provided a sworn statement from AT&T verifying) and who included a bunch of inflammatory serious allegations against the Prosecution withholding evidence which Hippler rightly called out. In the end, he agreed to allow AT to question the FBI witness-Ballance? without the Jury present.

“Does the State have too many cases and is that why they are not meeting deadlines?”
I’m sure the State has many cases and I’ve yet to see where they haven’t met discovery deadlines. It’s an accusation by AT, Jennings denies it, no discovery extensions violated that I’m aware of and no sanctions issued to P by either the Judge. Just because the D alleges something doesn’t make it true and sounds like the Judge is going to ask the P to certify they’re not withholding anything from the D and have given them everything they have and will rule on it.


“The State was not ready with the self authentication certifications.
What has the State been doing for 2.5 years?”
Building their case. Collaborating with various LE agencies, reviewing the evidence the investigation procured and evidence that continues to be discovered, interviewing witnesses and experts, requesting reports from outside sources/entities/experts, reviewing said reports, preparing motions, replying to D motions, preparing exhibits for trial, I’m sure there’s more but suffice to say there’s lots to do while building a homicide case and this one has four victims so that automatically increases their workload having to review what LE provided about the four individuals’ backgrounds and records, meet with the families of all four victims.

“I thought she handled herself well.”
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that.

“Which just supports what the D argued about BKs presentation of ASD.”
Maybe. I get a different sense that it’s more than that, that BK might not like AT droning on about his ASD infantilizing, enfeebling him and basically telling the court BK isn’t the capable genius he thinks he is.

“The motions she is filing are normal.”
Yes I’m very aware these are normal motions Defense Attorneys file. IMO Mostly, AT wants all the highly incriminating evidence against her client thrown out/excluded pretrial.
Nothing to see here.
And obvs she wants the DP removed.

“The only side that has mentioned a delay is the P.”
So far. Nothing says AT won’t ask for a delay between now and trial in the 11th hour, so to speak. She’s complaining about not having time to go through all discovery 4 months before trial, says she has lead on another suspect and so potentially will be putting on SODDI defense.
All I’m saying is there’s still discovery for her to go through, says she has other suspect lead to investigate so possible SODDI defense to prepare, and only 4 months to go until trial. That’s a lot to get done and so I wouldn’t be surprised if she asks for delay sometime between now and trial. That’s it, just my own speculation. Maybe she won’t, just that I wouldn’t be surprised if she did.

“During the last hearing, the D said that delaying the trial was not an acceptable remedy.”
Well ok but based on her whining about not being able to get through all the discovery and told the Judge she’s aware there’s help available but she hasn’t asked for it and gave no indication she plans to ask for help, wonder what her remedy is because as it stands now she seems to be behind the eight ball and ill-prepared for trial.

IMHOO

 

[gremlin444]

BTW, in the Murder Sheet's Podcast, the question of whether or not Idaho juries can submit questions during trial came up...they didn't know, so I went looking.

I.C.R. 30.1. Juror Questioning of Witness. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

"Idaho Criminal Rule 30.1. Jury Questioning of Witness

The court may instruct jurors that they are individually permitted to submit to the court a written question directed to any witness. If questions are submitted, the parties or counsel must be given the opportunity to object to the questions outside the presence of the jury. If the questions are not objectionable, the court must read the question to the witness. The parties or counsel may then be given the opportunity to ask follow-up questions as necessary."

 

[mrjitty]

At this time, there is no alternate suspect evidence. The defense must have names, and must provide them before trial, and soon, if they exist. They cannot just say SODDI. BK has no alibi between 2:47 and 4:48, regardless of what the defense claims, period. There is no "partial" alibi. There either is one, or there is not one. And unless someone suddenly remembers seeing him elsewhere at the time of the murders, no one can offer an alibi but BK. Someone being able to show where he was an hour and a half before the murders is not an alibi. Again, where are these AT&T non-existent timing advance records, that AT&T swore they did not supply to the state, going to come from? Are they going to just materialize out of thin air? There is absolutely zero evidence that they exist. Ballance will be talked to outside of the presence of the jury, and barring some great secret revelation, the jury will never know of the talk.

I do find it surprising that you assign such low value to the Amazon click activity pertaining to the KaBar knife, being allowed, and apparently also to the information about the vehicle, in light of the video that will come in of the traffic stop, and all of the video of an identical car circling the area of KIng Rd, before stopping and leaving just when the murders were committed. I also think the defense placed high value on the demonstrative house model. They certainly put up a fuss about it, and yet, it is coming in. JMO

Just a note that they can claim generic SODDI - which in this case is broadly similar to the infamous hotdog man meme

What they can't claim without an evidential nexus is sometimes called TODDI.

It's my belief AT will end up with generic SODDI because of course she doesn't actually have an alt and it's april.

The term “SODDI” is used in situations where the Defense does not know who “the other dude” is. The term “TODDI” is used when the Defense knows who “the other dude” is, with TODDI standing for “The other dude did it.” “The other dude” is most commonly a co-defendant.

What is the SODDI Defense? | McClenahen Law Firm

The SODDI is one of the most commonly employed defenses in jury trials involving violent crimes. SODDI is an acronym, which ... Defenses

www.mattmlaw.com

 

[mrjitty]

“During the last hearing, the D said that delaying the trial was not an acceptable remedy.”
Well ok but based on her whining about not being able to get through all the discovery and told the Judge she’s aware there’s help available but she hasn’t asked for it and gave no indication she plans to ask for help, wonder what her remedy is because as it stands now she seems to be behind the eight ball and ill-prepared for trial.

IMHOO

RSBM

It's April and;

BK has no alibi
BK has no alternate suspect
BK will concede his DNA is on the murder weapon
BK will concede he ordered the murder weapon on Amazon

AT knows full well there is no alt suspect concealed in the traffic cam footage - which is why she hasn't been looking in it, or did so long ago.

Case is a stone cold loser. I expect her to delay trial as it's the only strategy she has.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I've argued all along that the only person who can provide alibi evidence in this case is the defendant. AT and Sy Ray can't give evidence about his immaculate route

 

[girlhasnoname]

I've argued all along that the only person who can provide alibi evidence in this case is the defendant. AT and Sy Ray can't give evidence about his immaculate route

Agree, but will BK think so highly of himself and his ability to argue his case that he would take the stand?

Don't forget he was the Extemporaneous Speaking Champion from his Region back in 2019. He believes he can win any argument for sure, maybe he thinks he can sway the jury or at least one for a mistrial?

The dramatic change in his physical appearance is definitely a planned move by the Defense IMO.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

OT: Hope you feel better soon! Sending you healing vibes.

You are very kind thank you.

I've argued all along that the only person who can provide alibi evidence in this case is the defendant. AT and Sy Ray can't give evidence about his immaculate route

Immaculate route... I love that!

 

[Warwick7]

I think it might have been said in court recently. I'll have to check around but I think we just found this out.
JMO

I heard it too. I just can't put my finger on it.

 

[Warwick7]

Agree, but will BK think so highly of himself and his ability to argue his case that he would take the stand?

Don't forget he was the Extemporaneous Speaking Champion from his Region back in 2019. He believes he can win any argument for sure, maybe he thinks he can sway the jury or at least one for a mistrial?

The dramatic change in his physical appearance is definitely a planned move by the Defense IMO.

JMO

Say whattt?
BK was the Extemporaneous Speaking Champion from his Region back in 2019?
Ok that sheds light on a man that can allegedly tie his shoes. Lol!

But seriously, if that is the case, it wouldn't surprise me if he did want to take the stand.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

On Court TV, Julie Grant is having a segment on recent court hearing FYI.

 

[SteveP]

Just a note that they can claim generic SODDI - which in this case is broadly similar to the infamous hotdog man meme

What they can't claim without an evidential nexus is sometimes called TODDI.

It's my belief AT will end up with generic SODDI because of course she doesn't actually have an alt and it's april.

What is the SODDI Defense? | McClenahen Law Firm

The SODDI is one of the most commonly employed defenses in jury trials involving violent crimes. SODDI is an acronym, which ... Defenses

www.mattmlaw.com

Thanks for this clarification. Yep, whether it is SODDI or TODDI, we all pretty much know there is no 'ODDI' in this crime. JMO

 

[SteveP]

I know we learned a couple days ago that today's scheduled motions hearing was cancelled. Anyone have any thoughts as to why it might have been?