4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[Warwick7]

“And naturally he had to extinguish X and E to get out of there”


If Maddie had been alone , how do we know he wouldn’t have gone to other rooms, given they were unlocked and continued to kill as many as possible whilst they sleep?

We have many of the parents interviews before the gag order went down. We have the PCA and now new documents. The underlying common denominator I found was MM was his target. M00

 

[katydid23]

The fact is, BK did not lie to the officer. Albrightsville doesn't have crosswalks. That is the fact of the matter and that is all that I am pointing out.

Sometimes a fact is just a fact. We need to view this case realistically in order to examine it in detail. He is not charged with lying to the officer and as far as I can tell, he did not lie to the officer. These extra false facts are not helpful and are a waste of time in a complex case, IMO.

Yes, I agree. We do need to view this case realistically.

So realistically, why did it matter to that police officer, that the small town of Albrightsville had no crosswalks? What was the purpose of BK mentioning that fact?

It does not matter if that is a true fact, it matters why BK chose to mention it.

I think it is likely that BK mentioned that 'true fact' to try and convince the officer that poor, country boy BK had no experience trying to maneuver his car around a confusing situation like a crosswalk.

 

[Arkay]

The fact is, BK did not lie to the officer. Albrightsville doesn't have crosswalks. That is the fact of the matter and that is all that I am pointing out.

Sometimes a fact is just a fact. We need to view this case realistically in order to examine it in detail. He is not charged with lying to the officer and as far as I can tell, he did not lie to the officer. <modsnip> IMO.

I admit it’s difficult for me to imagine life in a town of only 93 people. There are 552 apartments just in my building alone.

However, if Bryan grew up in such a tiny place, then he certainly was familiar with the crosswalk that @SteveP documented in BK’s hometown. He must know every nook and cranny there.

This entire tangent about crosswalks is only valuable, IMO, for the insight it provides into Bryan’s character. He did in fact lie to the officer, playing innocent to get out of the ticket.

The revelation that he is capable of talking himself out of trouble is what strikes me as important, because it’s diametrically opposed to how the defense portrays BK as a near-imbecile who can’t tie his shoes and is bewildered as to why he’s on trial.

He’s not on trial for going through a red light because he didn’t know what to do at this “crosswalk thingy.”

He’s well aware of why he’s actually on trial.

IN MY OPINION he is acting, and AT is his director.

 

[mickey2942]

Experts reveal body language trait that could give away a psychopath

People often refer to a look referred to the 'psychopathic stare' - but is this a clinically recognised feature, and what does it refer to?

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Megnut]

“And naturally he had to extinguish X and E to get out of there”


If Maddie had been alone , how do we know he wouldn’t have gone to other rooms, given they were unlocked and continued to kill as many as possible whilst they sleep?

We don't know.

But like @MassGuy has said, he doesn't present as a mass murderer, fits better eith a serial killer which he may have gone on to become if he hadn't been arrested after his first crime (quadruple murders but singular crime, in a sense).

Multiple victims in a singular structure isn't unique, however. He may have been a student of Bundy.

It's the backdrop that suggests a singular target. Hard to anticipate KG would be there. Hard to anticipate XK was going to be awake. I think he reconnaissance was poor. And he went from active to reactive, gunning down everyone in his way.

I think he encountered MM at the Mad Greek. An encounter that probably barely registered for her but fired a fixation for him. Followed her home, more than once.

He knew exactly where that house was. 23 times, leading up to 11/13.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

We have many of the parents interviews before the gag order went down. We have the PCA and now new documents. The underlying common denominator I found was MM was his target. M00

I’ll never wrap my head around this , incapable. Thank all

 

[Sachi]

We don't know.

But like @MassGuy has said, he doesn't present as a mass murderer, fits better eith a serial killer which he may have gone on to become if he hadn't been arrested after his first crime (quadruple murders but singular crime, in a sense).

Multiple victims in a singular structure isn't unique, however. He may have been a student of Bundy.

It's the backdrop that suggests a singular target. Hard to anticipate KG would be there. Hard to anticipate XK was going to be awake. I think he reconnaissance was poor. And he went from active to reactive, gunning down everyone in his way.

I think he encountered MM at the Mad Greek. And encounter that probably barely registered for her but fired a fixation for him. Followed her home, more than once.

He knew exactly where that house was. 23 times, leading up to 11/13.

JMO

“ I think he reconnaissance was poor. And he went from active to reactive, gunning down everyone in his way.”

Yes, extremely poor knowledge and understanding of college party house life if he was “assuming “ he would kill one person in a house like that, the variables and likelihood of witnesses is very high even at 4 am.

 

[realanastasia]

I think he was living on student loans. His family situation is not flush, so, he had to be self supporting. And tuition for out of state PhD is reduced by being a TA, but not 100% paid for. The cash is paltry.

In my experience, TA positions for Ph.D. students always include a full tuition waiver. The Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology at WSU appears to grant this to all in-state students who obtain TA positions, and it grants out-of-state students with TAships a full tuition waiver for their first year, after which they will have qualified for in-state residency and will get their subsequent years’ tuition waived as do other in-state students.

Funding | Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology | Washington State University

crmj.wsu.edu

 

[mickey2942]

In my experience, TA positions for Ph.D. students always include a full tuition waiver. The Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology at WSU appears to grant this to all in-state students who obtain TA positions, and it grants out-of-state students with TAships a full tuition waiver for their first year, after which they will have qualified for in-state residency and will get their subsequent years’ tuition waived as do other in-state students.

Funding | Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology | Washington State University

crmj.wsu.edu

I still think that he was living on Student loans. It isn't like he had any other jobs, his parents couldn't support him. Even if his tuition was free, the TA stipend isn't enough money for rent, and everything else.

 

[Boxer]

Yes, I agree. We do need to view this case realistically.

So realistically, why did it matter to that police officer, that the small town of Albrightsville had no crosswalks? What was the purpose of BK mentioning that fact?

It does not matter if that is a true fact, it matters why BK chose to mention it.

I think it is likely that BK mentioned that 'true fact' to try and convince the officer that poor, country boy BK had no experience trying to maneuver his car around a confusing situation like a crosswalk.

It is confusing whether you can wait for the left turn in the intersection. I think a lot of people would say they weren't aware of the rule.
MOO the stop was important for identity and location.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Is it possible for anyone believing BK is "innocent until PROVEN guilty", would be allowed to post on the Websleuths forum?

 

[MassGuy]

“ I think he reconnaissance was poor. And he went from active to reactive, gunning down everyone in his way.”

Yes, extremely poor knowledge and understanding of college party house life if he was “assuming “ he would kill one person in a house like that, the variables and likelihood of witnesses is very high even at 4 am.

I think he minimized that to an extent by his recon efforts. As we know, he had allegedly made 23 trips there between 10pm and 4am. That would be enough to establish a pattern of life, especially if he did this on the weekend. Once the lights went off, he'd know they were in their rooms and likely in their beds.

But there were a million variables, and they were present that night. That DoorDash order was one of them, and I tend to think he somehow managed to miss it (he wouldn't want to attack when he knew someone was up). Ironically, I believe it was this order that wound up getting Xana and Ethan killed (her door may have been open, or she wandered into the kitchen to throw away trash or something).

Based on his arrival time, he had no way of knowing who exactly was in the house at the time. Someone could have spotted him as he left and exited his car, his license plate could have been caught on camera, a plate reader could have picked it up, someone could have heard him and called 911 immediately, etc, etc.

Make no mistake, this was well planned, but incredibly risky.

 

[MassGuy]

Is it possible for anyone believing BK is "innocent until PROVEN guilty", would be allowed to post on the Websleuths forum?

That's for a court of law, and not for us. There are people here who believe he is innocent, or are sitting on the fence.

 

[MassGuy]

In my experience, TA positions for Ph.D. students always include a full tuition waiver. The Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology at WSU appears to grant this to all in-state students who obtain TA positions, and it grants out-of-state students with TAships a full tuition waiver for their first year, after which they will have qualified for in-state residency and will get their subsequent years’ tuition waived as do other in-state students.

Funding | Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology | Washington State University

crmj.wsu.edu

He had a lot to lose if he lost that TA position, and it was certainly trending that way prior to the murders. This potential job loss would be a significant stressor, exacerbating underlying his psychological issues (feelings of inadequacy, rejection, anger, etc).

He was deeply invested in criminology and displayed a desire to prove his intelligence (anecdotally, he seems to have been one of those smartest man in the room guys). The potential loss of his teaching assistant role would have been a massive personal and professional failure, which would have made him very resentful. This likely created a need to assert control or dominance - he was angry, and he was going to take it out on a symbol of that.

 

[mickey2942]

Is it possible for anyone believing BK is "innocent until PROVEN guilty", would be allowed to post on the Websleuths forum?

Sure. There are several people who believe this, and have put forth many scenarios. The stump issue, has always been the DNA found on the knife sheathe, under the victim's body. The video of the White Elantra in the area on the date of murders.

BK's own attorney wanted the evidence thrown out.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

BK very specifically said "Where I am from in Pennsylvania, we actually don't have crosswalks." So he was specifically talking about where he is from which is Albrightsville, not Wilkes-Barre, Scranton, Lehigh Valley or any other city in Pennsylvania.

Maybe technically truthful but I don’t believe for a minute he’s unfamiliar with crosswalk cultures. At the least, crosswalk laws are part of the driving test and that is state law not Albright’s law. This is just an example of his BS. MOO. MOO.

 

[jepop]

I think it's not so much a "condition" as it's rules of evidence. The defendant's demeanor in court, off the stand, is not evidence and the jury is not allowed to consider it, so any testimony that explains his demeanor off the stand is not relevant. Usually this works to protect the defendant. If he testifies, that's evidence the jury can consider and it may be relevant to explain his demeanor.
JMO

That's my understanding too. Defense wanted the jury to be made aware of autism in guilt phase for this specific purpose. That's how I read their motion. Under rules of evidence, Hippler says the jury cannot be conveyed this information for the purpose of explaining BK's demeanour as he sits in the courtroom. The only exception would be if B.K chose to take the stand and introduce it. Moo

I believe the defense either wanted to include autism ref in opening statement or was it that the jury should be made aware by the court, even before trial begins? I can't recall. Either way, rules of evidence say no. Moo

I think the defense implied in their motion they also wanted their experts to testify to BK and autism at guilt phase to suggest he was incapable of committing the crimes? ICBW. However, there is nothing in the expert reports that points in that direction at all, so Hipper said that is not a reason to have the experts testify at guilt phase re autism. Moo

Not really up on the details of this second point. But, the defense can only bring autism into the guilt phase of trial via expert if they can show how it is relevant to non-guilt/ innocence. That has not and, imo, will not be established. Jmo going off vague recollections of what Hippler's order actually said!

 

[GOBliaison]

DopeworthyBleatingMeandry​

 

[Sillybilly]

Is it possible for anyone believing BK is "innocent until PROVEN guilty", would be allowed to post on the Websleuths forum?

Members can express that opinion, but we don't allow debating it and virtue signalling about the presumption of innocence principle. It is a legal principle that the judiciary is held to, it applies within the judicial system, and it means proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. It is not a principle imposed upon the general public in discussion. Joe Average can have an opinion and speculate within reason based on the known facts of the case.

It's fine if individual members wish to adhere to the legal principle as part of their own personal belief system, but it is not an expectation we have of Websleuths members. We try to temper direct accusations or insinuations that are not based on known fact (i.e. MSM or LE). Obviously none of us can know until there is a verdict, and even then, a NG finding is never absolute proof of innocence. It just means that the prosecution did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Hope that helps clarify. Any further questions, just jump off any post using the Report feature and one of us will respond as soon as we can.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MassGuy,” intended to kill 1 and it got out of hand.”

Can we discuss this a bit and folks weigh in because I can not understand “the out of hand” as it pertains to a 300% increase of murdering innocent people with a war like machete knife that seems used for .. exactly what he did, a planned , war like crazed killing. Moo

If he planned to only kill one, why in a house full of students? The challenge? Copy cat? Or.. planned and expected/ could have wanted -the possible opportunity to kill more than the single target? Hence the giant knife and where the crime took place.
Because the Variables at that party house were ever changing and he was watching and must have planned accordingly to kill anything to and from.
No?

Great question...

I am in the camp of BK planned a mass murder from the start. Not saying that he hadn't fixated on one roommate, but he could have had an opportunity to catch one of them out by themselves after watching them for months (coming/going to work or shopping, alone in the house during the day, etc.). If it were Kaylee, she was only there that weekend to show off her new car. Could BK have known that and had to make it work at that time?

This is also considering that BK started on the 3rd floor. I haven't completely dismissed the idea he might have started on the 2nd floor with Xana and Ethan, especially since BK would have known about the DoorDash and someone being up and mobile. I think DM heard words being spoken by Xana. I wonder which direction the latent footprint that was recovered was positioned outside of DM's door...vertical or horizontal?

Then there's the knife sheath left under Maddie, it could have been left there in his rush to escape after Murphy began seriously barking. He left going straight down the stairs to exit, and that's why DM only saw 'one eyebrow'. I don't think BK saw DM.

IDK, my mind can make arguments for both scenarios.