4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[Nila Aella]

We are only being told about the one footprint in front of DM's door in the PCA. They needed just the basics for that affidavit.

I can't imagine leaving the bloody scene in Xana's room and there aren't manyfootprints from Xana's and going out the slider.
There will be no footprints coming from the bannister steps. M00

There is only one print, not a path of prints.
JMO

Franks Order

Further, the fact the footprint was located only in one spot and there were not others before and after it does not make Detective Payne's statement false about the path of travel.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

JMO

 

[Balthazar]

If still wet, maybe Paramedic?

It would be awfully sloppy work for a 1st responder to spread blood throughout a crime scene. But also, the police did not allow the paramedics to enter the house. The paramedics were sent away leaving only 4 sources that could have deposited this blood evidence on the bannister:

1. Murderer
2. DM or BF
3. Friends DM or BF called over - HJ and EA
4. Police

It's blood with male DNA, so we know DM and BF are not the original source of the blood. I would hope no police officer was bleeding all over the crime scene - that would be highly unprofessional. There have been no reports HJ was bleeding and I'm sure LE took his DNA and it didn't match this sample which it is still unknown male DNA. There has been no reports that DM accidentally touched some blood with her hand and transferred it to the bannister when she ran to BF's room. However, IMO, there needs to be a way to account for this blood.

All JMO.

 

[Warwick7]

There is only one print, not a path of prints.
JMO

Franks Order

Further, the fact the footprint was located only in one spot and there were not others before and after it does not make Detective Payne's statement false about the path of travel.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

JMO

I won't pretend to know alot about "franks." However...

What I do know is "franks" is to challenge the affidavit that a search warrant is based on. What else would we expect the defense to do. They have so little to work with.

In my opinion, that "franks" is no threat to the prosecution.

And while I could be wrong, the defense filed a franks and requested a hearing, the court ultimately denied the motion and did not grant a hearing.

And if I'm not mistaken @MassGuy understands quite a bit more on franks.

 

[Megnut]

It would be awfully sloppy work for a 1st responder to spread blood throughout a crime scene. But also, the police did not allow the paramedics to enter the house. The paramedics were sent away leaving only 4 sources that could have deposited this blood evidence on the bannister:

1. Murderer
2. DM or BF
3. Friends DM or BF called over - HJ and EA
4. Police

It's blood with male DNA, so we know DM and BF are not the original source of the blood. I would hope no police officer was bleeding all over the crime scene - that would be highly unprofessional. There have been no reports HJ was bleeding and I'm sure LE took his DNA and it didn't match this sample which it is still unknown male DNA. There has been no reports that DM accidentally touched some blood with her hand and transferred it to the bannister when she ran to BF's room. However, IMO, there needs to be a way to account for this blood.

All JMO.

There is zero evidence connecting that handrail to the crime.

JMO

 

[vls12345]

I think that is highly unlikely given what we know. Given his movements, if he planned to do a mass murder, him walking to the top floor and skipping both Xana and Dylan's rooms (as well as Bethany if you want to include her) suggests someone who has a clear specific target rather than to murder whoever he stumbled on. Whether it was Kaylee or Maddie, he was looking for someone at the top floor specifically, we just don't know who because only he knows which room he went to first. Then we know he killed Xana after she stumbled on him (or had a high likelyhood of stumbling on him given the events that transpired prior to him coming down the stairs) so this suggests her and Ethan were collateral. Finally, he skips Dylan's room for the third time. Whether he saw her or not, if his goal was mass murder - that doesn't make sense for someone who just wanted to murder whoever.

As to why he hit a house full of people... Only he himself knows. Generally speaking it's a risky attack but he could have easily escaped if we assume everything went to plan and he killed Maddie/Kaylee and Xana was sleeping instead of being awake. He could have easily left at that point before anyone knew what was happening.

Yes, it is a risky attack and such, but so is bringing your car to the crime scene and turning your phone before the crimes. He's a not a hardened, experienced killer, he's just a guy with a subpar knowledge of police technology and methods who probably had fantasies of killing for a long time prior the attack and the stuff in his personal life finally sent him over the edge and he decided to go along with it. His driving around the neighborhood with his car suggests it as much. We really shouldn't be relying on logic here. There are many things he did that are not logical and outright stupid.

Sometimes it's said that a person snaps.

In BK's case, I would nuance that. I think BK had to work hard at tolerating the imbeciles around him.

The professor who set up that TA/grading session likely envisioned a dialogue between the adult TA and the adult students whereby each side would come away with a better understanding of the other's position. The professor might even have thought it would be a good teaching/learning exercise for BK. Grow some empathy. Without realizing empathy was decidedly not in his wheelhouse.

I can only imagine how many different ways BK choose to be offended.

I don't think he snapped. I think BK relaxed. By which I mean he just stopped the tedious work of playing by rules he didn't care to understand.

And then 1122 became the only thing he wanted to do. That gross winning selfie kind of says it all.

JMO

I'm quoting your posts because they relate to the discussion of whether this was targeted, why he would choose to go into the house to murder one or two but not all....

There has been a lot of speculation of him possibly targeting the house &/or the "type" of people he saw the house inhabitants to be (successful, popular, attractive, etc.). If he saw them as "party" people maybe he felt perfectly safe entering the house to kill just one (or maybe two), assuming everyone else in the house would be knocked out from their own partying? I can imagine him justifying things in his own head -- like they deserve to wake up in a horror house, partially as punishment for their partying ways that would render them out of it/unconscious enough to make them not realize what was going on around them.

Anyway, maybe he had no real qualms about entering a house with multiple people because he assumed all of them would be out of it (by their own choices/actions). He was just going to be an avenging angel for those choices. (Which would be ironic since he used heroin in the past.)

Just random thoughts I'm thinking when I'm reading all the posts. MOO.

 

[SteveP]

It would be awfully sloppy work for a 1st responder to spread blood throughout a crime scene. But also, the police did not allow the paramedics to enter the house. The paramedics were sent away leaving only 4 sources that could have deposited this blood evidence on the bannister:

1. Murderer
2. DM or BF
3. Friends DM or BF called over - HJ and EA
4. Police

It's blood with male DNA, so we know DM and BF are not the original source of the blood. I would hope no police officer was bleeding all over the crime scene - that would be highly unprofessional. There have been no reports HJ was bleeding and I'm sure LE took his DNA and it didn't match this sample which it is still unknown male DNA. There has been no reports that DM accidentally touched some blood with her hand and transferred it to the bannister when she ran to BF's room. However, IMO, there needs to be a way to account for this blood.

All JMO.

To buy into this idea, one must accept a scenario that has been created, whereby the blood on the rail had to have been deposited at the same time as the murders, therefore only the murderer, DM, BF, HJ, EA, or police could have deposited it. Known facts do not support this idea at all. There has been nothing stated by anyone that suggests this was fresh blood. For all that any of us knows, the blood spot could have been deposited by any male that had been in the house since the last time the rail had been cleaned, and given that 5 college kids lived in the rental house that has been described at times as a party house, that could have been a very large number of people, touching a rail which may have not been cleaned since move-in. This is only my opinion, so I will not pretend it is a fact, but I think it is very possible that the blood was probably old and degraded to the point that it would not have met Codis criteria. Too bad, too, because that would almost surely have slammed one more door closed for the defense. JMO

 

[INfisherman]

To buy into this idea, one must accept what is an unlikely scenario that has been created, whereby the blood on the rail had to have been deposited at the same time as the murders, therefore only the murderer, DM, BF, HJ, EA, or police could have deposited it. Known facts do not support that idea at all. There has been nothing stated by anyone that even remotely suggests this was fresh blood. For all that any of us knows, the blood spot could have been deposited by any male that had been in the house since the last time the rail had been cleaned, and given that 5 college kids lived in the rental house that has been described at times as a party house, that could have been a very large number of people, touching a rail which may have not been cleaned since move-in. This is only my opinion, so I will not pretend it is a fact, but I think it is very likely that the blood was probably old and degraded to the point that it could not be uploaded to Codis. Too bad, too, because that would almost surely have slammed one more door closed for the defense. JMO

Exactly. Investigators & prosecutors typically go with the story which the evidence tells them & as of yet, the blood on the rail doesn’t lend as much to the story as the rest of the evidence. With some patience, we’ll eventually know what many already suspect & I doubt that blood on the rail is going to be a deciding factor in the resulting story.

As you allude, that blood could have come from anyone at any point in time, even before the murders.

JMO

ETA grammar

 

[Boxer]

What about the blood on the bannister heading down to BF's room? How did that get there?

Lots of parties, bloody nose, rough housing on the stairs.

 

[Sachi]

Lots of parties, bloody nose, rough housing on the stairs.

certainly the degradation of the cells and the age of the stain will be revealed.

 

[Boxer]

certainly the degradation of the cells and the age of the stain will be revealed.

According to this, within a window of few weeks if fresh
"… the age of blood stains can be accurately estimated to within 2–4 weeks for stains less than 6 months of age and 4–6 weeks for stains 6 months to 1 year old."

https://www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Ghostwheel]

There is only one print, not a path of prints.
JMO

Franks Order

Further, the fact the footprint was located only in one spot and there were not others before and after it does not make Detective Payne's statement false about the path of travel.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

JMO

I read that differently than you do. There are not others JUST LIKE IT before or after it RIGHT THERE. That does not mean there isn't a path of prints somewhere. Example of why I believe this: when I garden, I get dirt on my shoes. Some is imbedded in the crevices of my shoes. As I walk across the patio in the back, I leave some dirt and water for about 3 to 4 steps for each shoe (assuming not muddy, just damp), then there are no tracks as I wander around. But if I lean hard on one leg, like taking off quickly to get the phone, I will leave a track from the moist dirt in the crevices of my shoe. Just one. On my patio, you will see the 3 to 4 steps coming in from the garden, then one lone track over by the table where I was doing something when the phone rang (Yes, I have a landline, so sue me.... ) And then I leave tracks on the rug because dirt in my shoe crevices and I was too dopey to remove them before entering the house.

So, we can only say that the footprint was located only in one spot and there were not others before and after it at that identified spot for that identified print, not that there was only one footprint in the whole house. IMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

There is only one print, not a path of prints.
JMO

Franks Order

Further, the fact the footprint was located only in one spot and there were not others before and after it does not make Detective Payne's statement false about the path of travel.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

JMO

They developed one print with Amido black. That does not mean it was the only print in the house, whatever the defense tries to claim.

MOO

 

[dkaras]

It would be awfully sloppy work for a 1st responder to spread blood throughout a crime scene. But also, the police did not allow the paramedics to enter the house. The paramedics were sent away leaving only 4 sources that could have deposited this blood evidence on the bannister:

1. Murderer
2. DM or BF
3. Friends DM or BF called over - HJ and EA
4. Police

It's blood with male DNA, so we know DM and BF are not the original source of the blood. I would hope no police officer was bleeding all over the crime scene - that would be highly unprofessional. There have been no reports HJ was bleeding and I'm sure LE took his DNA and it didn't match this sample which it is still unknown male DNA. There has been no reports that DM accidentally touched some blood with her hand and transferred it to the bannister when she ran to BF's room. However, IMO, there needs to be a way to account for this blood.

All JMO.

Wait, were the banister blood stains FRESH blood stains?? I haven't heard that...do you have a link or in a court doc??

If fresh, could DM have transferred a blood stain when she ran down the stairs to BF's room?

ETA: if a transfer from DM, and if male, could it have been E's blood, assuming the murderer didn't cut himself? I AM NOT AT ALL SAYING DM was involved here, only saying could she have touched blood when she left her room like from a wall or could she have slipped/tripped and got some from the floor, and touched the railing on her way down... I DO NOT at all believe the surviving roommates were involved. I wanted to make that clear

 

[Nila Aella]

They developed one print with Amido black. That does not mean it was the only print in the house, whatever the defense tries to claim.

MOO

This is what the Judge said in his order:

Further, THE FACT the footprint was located only in one spot and there were not others before and after it does not make Detective Payne's statement false about the path of travel

page 30

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

 

[katydid23]

Investigators found two sources of unknown male blood DNA at the crime scene, which the defense has already questioned in court. A “blood spot” was discovered on a handrail inside between the first and second floors of the three-story Moscow home, while the other was found on a glove located outside of it, according to testimony from the lead police detective at a closed hearing in January.

Those DNA samples were not uploaded to try to identify them through the national DNA database, known as CODIS, because they were not eligible based on FBI criteria, Thompson said at an August 2023 court hearing

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article301947584.html#storylink=cpy

A 'blood spot' -----that does not sound like it was 'fresh blood.' imo

 

[wendy44]

I won't pretend to know alot about "franks." However...

What I do know is "franks" is to challenge the affidavit that a search warrant is based on. What else would we expect the defense to do. They have so little to work with.

In my opinion, that "franks" is no threat to the prosecution.

And while I could be wrong, the defense filed a franks and requested a hearing, the court ultimately denied the motion and did not grant a hearing.

And if I'm not mistaken @MassGuy understands quite a bit more on franks.

If I understand it correctly, the judge granted a full Franks on the IGG portion for efficiency and heard arguments for a Franks on everything else. I think it's not totally clear that the judge meant there are no other footprints anywhere else at the scene as opposed to no footprints before or after the one mentioned in the PCA, which was specifically talking about a path of travel. The footprint at the door is meant to corroborate DM's statement that the suspect walked by her door. The defense was specifically referencing that area of the house, the path of travel by her door.

It may be that there are no other footprints anywhere else, but I don't think it's clear from the order because the judge also seemed to be referencing that specific area as well. There was no mention of other footprints in the PCA so this would not have been brought up for the Franks unless somehow the defense believed that omitting their existence or lack of existence would have changed the magistrate's mind. I think it's possible they didn't exist, but also possible they do, but they didn't want to include that information in the PCA unless they had something to compare them to.
JMO

 

[Arkay]

I would hope no police officer was bleeding all over the crime scene - that would be highly unprofessional.

Why would a police officer be “bleeding all over the crime scene?”

Bryan was gone already. The police were not in a battle for their lives against Bryan’s knife, in which case they’d have shot him anyway.

IMO it is completely far-fetched to even contemplate this scenario. If somehow an officer was hurt and bloody prior to arriving, his superior officer would not, I’m sure, allow him to work the crime scene.

I feel confident that the male officers can be safely eliminated as the source of the blood stain on the handrail. Which I also believe was old and degraded.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

Why would a police officer be “bleeding all over the crime scene?”

Bryan was gone already. The police were not in a battle for their lives against Bryan’s knife, in which case they’d have shot him anyway.

IMO it is completely far-fetched to even contemplate this scenario. If somehow an officer was hurt and bloody prior to arriving, his superior officer would not, I’m sure, allow him to work the crime scene.

I feel confident that the male officers can be safely eliminated as the source of the blood stain on the handrail. Which I also believe was old and degraded.

JMO

It’s so interesting how we get here- Justices responding “ if still wet, maybe the paramedics ?” As a response , then Balthazaar ruminates on it..” ,
then your post to stop the unrealistic from becoming accepted assumption.
Thank you for writing this because with a twist of a few words, before you know it , the thread is in the weeds.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Real question. Why would he leave anyone alive if he planned a mass murder? Did he not know about the other two? Maybe got exhausted? That is the part I cannot reconcile if he planned a mass murder. He should have known that at least 4 women would be there. That KG and EC were also there was likely a surprise, but was that enough to not go looking downstairs?

I'm kind of feeling the "Thought he would sneak in and kill 1 while the others were all passed out" scenario and either KG wasn't where he thought she would be and he had to go find her, or MM was the target. I'm thinking MM was the target because KG was not supposed to be there, but that KG was there might have made her the target. Anyway, random thoughts.

My post was in response to the OP questioning if it could have been different from a targeted one person killing plan. I thought it was an interesting question. We really don't know for a fact at this point where BK started, 3rd vs 2nd floor. He could have encountered Xana upon entering, as we know she was up receiving DD and on TIKTOK, which meant a surprise of Ethan being there.

I mentioned BK may well have been targeting one roommate, but was also prepared to kill whomever became an obstacle. Agree, Kaylee sleeping in Maddie's room would likely have been another surprise, whether he was targeting Maddie or her.

I believe after murdering Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan, he felt he needed to get out of there ASAP (dog barking, neighborhood noises). I don't think BK saw DM, she said he observed him from a couple of feet away. If they had literally come into direct contact, I believe she would be dead as well.

I did say I changed my mind daily, lol, but it's a good exercise to consider all possibilities. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Sometimes it's said that a person snaps.

In BK's case, I would nuance that. I think BK had to work hard at tolerating the imbeciles around him.

The professor who set up that TA/grading session likely envisioned a dialogue between the adult TA and the adult students whereby each side would come away with a better understanding of the other's position. The professor might even have thought it would be a good teaching/learning exercise for BK. Grow some empathy. Without realizing empathy was decidedly not in his wheelhouse.

I can only imagine how many different ways BK choose to be offended.

I don't think he snapped. I think BK relaxed. By which I mean he just stopped the tedious work of playing by rules he didn't care to understand.

And then 1122 became the only thing he wanted to do. That gross winning selfie kind of says it all.

JMO

The fact that he ordered the Kbar knife in PA BEFORE he even moved to Pullman in June speaks to me. A Swiss army knife or pocket knife, sure I can see that. A 10-12 inch made for destruction killing knife is totally different.

JMO