4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[rickstyles84]

My late post last night regarding BK's mention of boxing on his application after reading that KG was punched may have been considered insensitive in delivery in retrospect, and I support whoever removed it.

The last thing I want to do is dehumanize the victims in the situation as if it were another box checked. As a father of 3, I have so much respect for Steve and his strength to speak publicly.

 

[Karin1974]

I believe the OP was quoting what the defense claimed he was doing in their response to the state’s MIL which was linked in the post. The state claims he was doing as you recall.

From the OCD section of the defense’s response:

OCD can be an independent diagnosis but is also a set of symptomatic behaviors that are
often comorbid in ASD as with Mr. Kohberger’s ASD. Notable for example on the above NIMH
list of behavioral issues commonly associated with ASD, Mr. Kohberger has sleep difficulties and
subsequently developed a habit of night driving or running to decompress, such behaviors being
present most of his life. He also engages in frequent compulsive hand washing, wears gloves to
avoid germs, has a fear of things getting into his eyes, changes his shower curtain frequently to
avoid exposure to mold, and avoids anything he views as contaminating. If the State elicits
testimony at trial related to these types of facts that are used to build circumstantially the elements
of the crime or show Mr. Kohberger’s actions as reflecting his state of mind or other elements of
the crime, he will refute that evidence through expert testimony as behaviors related to his OCD
and his ASD. By way of specific example, the State has continued to claim that Mr. Kohberger
was wearing gloves on the night of his arrest and placing trash in baggies. The State asserts that
this demonstrates that he had consciousness of guilt and was trying either to hide his DNA or
engage in the cleaning of his car. This is highly prejudicial and misleading. Mr. Kohberger
frequently wears gloves to avoid germs on surfaces. He was not cleaning his car on the night of
his arrest, he was awake at night, as is typical for him, and he was cleaning his bathroom.

I wonder if Brybry ever wore gloves to class, if he’s that germaphobic & wishes to avoid anything he views contaminating. Door handles in public places & all. I’m sure that will be an exception from the defense.

MOO

IMO - Someone on the defense is reading Websleuths ha ha, would you look at that, changes his shower curtain frequently to avoid exposure to mould, a little throwaway line to answer our ongoing question about the missing shower curtain! MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

Following up on this, he might have even taped his hands beforehand. Throw a set of whatever gloves he was wearing over that and not likely to bruise at all. That mark on his thumb made me think of taped hands.

But in my mind (and please forgive the graphic ), a well placed pommel/heel strike would hit with the butt end of the knife AND the fist at the same time. If the blade were held in the down position, then an upper strike with the hand would combine fist and handle end, if the knife were held upwards, a downward strike would also combine end and fist. Depending on a person's position, it would be a staggering blow at the very least. I could see KG trying to fight back, maybe already wounded and to her knees, and an upper cut to a head bent down trying to protect herself would have hit square on the face with a hard piece of metal. JMO. Many other ways to be "punched in the face", but that is what I was thinking way back when SG said "There’s evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation, [but] she was assaulted and stabbed". (September 2023)

As an anecdote, I use the pommel/heel as a hammer with any knife built like the KaBar. It will pound in tent stakes like nobody's business.

I cannot, for the life with me, other than in argument, understand what would possess a man to attack a woman by punching her in the face (and of course stabbing her repeatedly). I can intellectually understand if there was an argument or emotionally understand personal relationship dynamics. But, anger toward another in this way would be via personal motivation. I really don't understand anyone who thinks this way (deranged). Sort of, I am going to take my angst out on someone rather randomly. So pointless. Is it not relevant that your message is understood? I am remembering the strange selfie here. What did you accomplish? Nothing. Nothing makes this makes sense. Is this just a human beings mind collapsing in on itself?

It is not just misdirected energy, it is nonsensical. Psychologists have to explain motive. JMOO

 

[INfisherman]

IMO - Someone on the defense is reading Websleuths ha ha, would you look at that, changes his shower curtain frequently to avoid exposure to mould, a little throwaway line to answer our ongoing question about the missing shower curtain! MOO

Why wouldn’t they? Some smart folks here who’ve been through dozens if not hundreds of cases. If it doesn’t happen, I see nothing to prevent it. Not implying that I feel it’s moral but people stopped caring about how the game is played a long, long time ago & not just in the legal world.

MOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

I cannot, for the life with me, other than in argument, understand what would possess a man to attack a woman by punching her in the face (and of course stabbing her repeatedly). I can intellectually understand if there was an argument or emotionally understand personal relationship dynamics. But, anger toward another in this way would be via personal motivation. I really don't understand anyone who thinks this way (deranged). Sort of, I am going to take my angst out on someone rather randomly. So pointless. Is it not relevant that your message is understood? I am remembering the strange selfie here. What did you accomplish? Nothing. Nothing makes this makes sense. Is this just a human beings mind collapsing in on itself?

It is not just misdirected energy, it is nonsensical. Psychologists have to explain motive. JMOO

You don't have whatever mental disorder that would cause this behavior. It's OK if you don't understand it. Really a positive thing, in fact.

 

[katydid23]

The more details that trickle out, the more countermeasures we see, like trying to bury his Kbar purchase. Fiber-free coveralls & Co.
I wonder what we (LE) missed.

Did he swap a license plate or obscure his?

Did he manipulate his cellphone, beyond turning it off?

Was he committed to that morning by virtue of all of his preparation?

Did he construct an alibry that backfired on account of the delay in entry? All that looping left quite a gap for his cellphone, with 90+% battery life, to be offline. Did the hold up mess up a strategy we aren't privy to?

Didn't I read that he called in sick to work the next day? Am I remembering correctly?

If so, that seems like an error in judgement on his part. IMO

How smug is he, in the courtroom? Inwardly laughing at the parts LE still has wrong? Or deriding AT for failing to see the light? He must be busting at the seams at his brilliance, that they can't see it.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I know it's been discussed a lot but I don't see how even if BK is on the ASD Spectrum, Level 1, high functioning autism, would mean that he cannot have committed this crime.

At best it could explain an obsessive engagement with a subject or notion that became a focal point of all his thinking, at the cost of the bigger picture and creating a form of tunnel vision drive.
All of that would simply explain part of the process of his systemizing and processing style.
It wouldn't mean he didn't have a murderous violent criminal side to his personality and is either 'innocent' or 'incapable'.

I think it's highly possible / probably that BK genuinely meets the criteria for ASD on various grounds but that doesn't mean people with ASD usually go around harming people, quite the opposite. So it would mean that he had a far more serious more up front condition that was driving his actions and although he may also have ASD, this is not the cause of crime, not an explanation of the crime, and certainly doesn't excuse him from it. He must have co-morbid cluster B along the lines of antisocial personality disorder.

JMO MOO

I agree with you. It matters not to BK's capability and for his lawyers to try and make that the reason for a SODDI basis doesn't fly with me.

 

[femto]

I cannot, for the life with me, other than in argument, understand what would possess a man to attack a woman by punching her in the face (and of course stabbing her repeatedly). I can intellectually understand if there was an argument or emotionally understand personal relationship dynamics. But, anger toward another in this way would be via personal motivation. I really don't understand anyone who thinks this way (deranged). Sort of, I am going to take my angst out on someone rather randomly. So pointless. Is it not relevant that your message is understood? I am remembering the strange selfie here. What did you accomplish? Nothing. Nothing makes this makes sense. Is this just a human beings mind collapsing in on itself?

It is not just misdirected energy, it is nonsensical. Psychologists have to explain motive. JMOO

I read it a bit different. I think I'm even further convinced now that he killed Maddie relatively quick, being the first one he attacked, which woke up Kaylee who he then punched to sort of 'neutralize' for the moment while he redirected his attack towards her. I don't think he was punching her while stabbing her, but it is possible. The severity of Kaylee's (and Xana's) injuries might be because she actually had the opportunity to struggle for a moment unlike Maddie or Ethan who were killed before they realized what was going on

 

[human]

I have read that hitting the face is personal. I wonder if we will find out if there was a rweal life interaction with any of them before

 

[MassGuy]

I have read that hitting the face is personal. I wonder if we will find out if there was a rweal life interaction with any of them before

More personal than using a knife I imagine, which is also personal. I think this was practical though - KG stirred and he needed to subdue her quickly.

 

[MassGuy]

We need to be very careful in regards to the veracity of what SG is saying. We don't know where he is sourcing his information, and if the people who gave him this information are reliable. It's a game of telephone, and things tend to get lost in translation.

 

[katydid23]

Many people buy a mini survival shovel for their car emergency kit.
Multiuse.
JMO

That's true, so a mini shovel, on it's own, is pretty meaningless. But if the jury takes the whole thing in context, including the CAST map of the route taken home, in the rural, remote area at 5 am, then the idea that he was possibly burying evidence works better if he has a little shovel with a pointed end for dirt, not snow. imo

All alone, it means nothing. But in the context of him possibly driving back roads before sunrise, with bloody clothing and a knife to hide, it becomes more important.

Just like the info that he did in fact buy a Kabar w/sheath and sharpener---as people have said, many people have bought knives on Amazon. So its not necessarily incriminating.

But most people can either show those weapons to police if asked, or have a stolen property report. I don't think BK had either. And then there's the pesky report of his DNA being found at the scene on the sheath.

 

[katydid23]

IMO - Someone on the defense is reading Websleuths ha ha, would you look at that, changes his shower curtain frequently to avoid exposure to mould, a little throwaway line to answer our ongoing question about the missing shower curtain! MOO

I wonder if they can find a 'pattern' of him ordering new shower curtains, as his habit, apparently?

 

[Warwick7]

This is like over 3 hours long.

 

[femto]

We need to be very careful in regards to the veracity of what SG is saying. We don't know where he is sourcing his information, and if the people who gave him this information are reliable. It's a game of telephone, and things tend to get lost in translation.

He said he got it from the coroner which I have no reason to doubt since the coroner wasn't exactly tight lipped in the beginning with the media and I'm sure she would have been accommodating to the parents themselves. Obviously everything must be taken with a grain of salt until the trial, but it's definitely something I can imagine he would have done.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I cannot, for the life with me, other than in argument, understand what would possess a man to attack a woman by punching her in the face (and of course stabbing her repeatedly). I can intellectually understand if there was an argument or emotionally understand personal relationship dynamics. But, anger toward another in this way would be via personal motivation. I really don't understand anyone who thinks this way (deranged). Sort of, I am going to take my angst out on someone rather randomly. So pointless. Is it not relevant that your message is understood? I am remembering the strange selfie here. What did you accomplish? Nothing. Nothing makes this makes sense. Is this just a human beings mind collapsing in on itself?

It is not just misdirected energy, it is nonsensical. Psychologists have to explain motive. JMOO

IMO when he realised there were two people in the room he had a serious problem - how to simultaneously silence both of them immediately.

He couldn't afford for either one of them to scream or yell. Whatever he did, he must have done it swiftly and efficiently and this could have involved wanting to KO one or both with a punch so as to render them silent maybe. Doesn't bear thinking about, any of it.

JMO MOO

 

[Sachi]

We need to be very careful in regards to the veracity of what SG is saying. We don't know where he is sourcing his information, and if the people who gave him this information are reliable. It's a game of telephone, and things tend to get lost in translation.

Even he said, don't believe me .. do your own research.
He's exhausted, beyond ready for trail to get underway, can't happen soon enough. Wants to BE with kids and grandkids.

Justice for Ethan, Xana , Maddy and Kaylee

 

[girlhasnoname]

It's sad to listen to some of the details of the interview with SG, but it did confirm a lot of things I had questioned early on. Shovel found in truck (small one, not one for shoveling snow, LE believes he buried evidence), planned this crime earlier than thought, maybe even beginning in PA. BK collaborated with the Prof at DeSales on her book about BTK? WTH?? I wish we knew for sure if she was going to be called as a witness.

Horrible to listen to Steve say Kaylee was punched in the face along with her stab wounds. It makes sense considering she would have woken up during his attack on Maddie.

So glad to know that the FBI was doing a parallel investigation and seemed confident that this is one of the strongest cases with a largest amount of evidence. It sounds like the FBI and State both could have tried this case, but I agree that it was right to be kept by Moscow PD with the FBI waiting in the wings IF something crazy happened at trial.

BK will never be a free man again. Maybe some of what was revealed will cause the ProBergers to stop and think, but overall, did SG reveal too much? He said he had to stay within certain confines of the gag order, but this was a lot of new information.

The Internet Cranks should listen to this and realize the damage they do when they intentionally float an irrational, nonsensical contradictory narrative for click$$$$ and likes$$$$. These are innocent victims, with grieving families and loved ones left behind to process what is unimaginable IMO.

I felt BK was evil from the start and planned on pulling a 'make me famous' type crime. It sounds like he was working up to it as early as Jan 2022. Did the study on BTK trigger this or had he already have it planned from before his study at DeSales?? I think there will be some evidence presented that shows prior violent tendencies, like his reported assault/confrontation on the girl in his HS class. It had to have been serious enough for them to move him to an all male HVAC class. It sounds like BK visited violent, s e x u a l p o r n sites also.

Just Wow, is all I can say and I'm only 2/3 of the way through.

A lot to process here.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I tend to think he was holding it in his left hand, as he intended to commit a single murder (MM). He'd stab her to death, res-sheath the knife, and walk out of there.

Once he realizes that someone else is in bed with her, his plan falls apart. He strikes me as the type of guy who doesn't adapt well to surprises, and can't think on his feet. He puts the sheath down, as he's now got a second person to deal with. Perhaps KG began to stir, and he punches her to regain control. He was apparently into boxing, so he could have used his left hand for this, or simply turned his knife hand horizontally and struck her.

He's all thrown off at this point and just wants to get out of there. Then he encounters Xana...

You know I luv ya' Massy and agree with you 99% of the time, but I think he targeted the sorority party house more than one individual girl. He wanted to be a famous mass murderer, serial killer.

The ones he left behind might have been due to noises altering him to someone else being up, DM's door was locked on first try (latent footprint SG did confirm size 13 in the video posted above) dog barking, roommate or neighbors calling LE.

BK and his delusions of grandeur. FAIL!!!

Bye, Bye Bry

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/042425+Order+on+Defendants+Motion+in+Limine+RE+Vague+and+Undisclosed+Expert+Testimony.pdf

ORDER ON DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE RE: VAGUE AND UNDISCLOSED EXPERT TESTIMONY

pg 5

C. Heather and Jared Barnhart?

The Barnharts are digital specialists with Cellebrite who were retained by law enforcement to analyze Defendant's cell phone and PC to determine "user behavior and actions." They are disclosed to opine that the gaps in data on the two devices were "abnormal."!° Attached to the disclosures is a report jointly authored by the Barnharts detailing their analysis and findings. Their CVs were provided as well.

Defendant argues that the disclosures indicate they will testify to "habit" evidence, which

he complains is not explained and is not accompanied by any opinions. Defendant's challenge is confusing. Nowhere do the disclosures or the report indicate the Barnharts will testify about "habit" evidence. Rather, the disclosures state they will testify to their findings pertaining to Defendant's activities on his PC and cell phone for a period of time before and after the homicides and why gaps in data over that time period are "abnormal."

The Barnharts' opinions regarding these topics are fully set forth in their joint report. For example, they observed gaps in Defendant's school PC that "may be consistent with cleaning up

* For example, Defendant complained at the hearing that Agent Ballance analyzed handoff data for the seven minutes prior to the phone powering off at 2:54 a.m. on November 13, 2022, but did not provide an opinion about what his analysis showed. Thus, Defendant wants to exclude any opinion as to what his analysis of those seven minutes showed. However, as pointed out in Agent Ballance's rebuttal disclosure, page 13 of the CAST Report sets forth the data Agent Balance relied upon to opine that Defendant's phone used a certain tower and sector at 2:47 a.m. southeast of his apartment and ceased communication with the network at 2:54. He also explains that thelocation of a device is best estimated by the initial cell site versus the handoff cell site. He will be allowed to testify to these opinions. If Defendant believes Agent Ballance strays beyond these opinions, he can object and the Court will take the matter up then.

° The State submitted the following disclosures for the Bamharts: Initial Disclosure Heather Barnhart (Exh. S-3) (Dec. 18, 2024); Initial Disclosure - Jared Barnhart (Exh. S-4) (Dec. 18, 2024); Rebuttal Disclosures - Heather and Jared (Exhs. S-3 through S-5) (Feb. 17, 2025). Their rebuttal disclosures state simply that the Barnharts intend to rebut the expert testimony of Carol Penden, Kevin Penden and Josiah Roloff but need additional information prior to offering rebuttal opinions. Defendant is not challenging these.

'Specifically, their report explains that the gaps in data may be consistent with "cleaning up or using anti-forensic methods to clear evidence." Report, p. 1.

==============================

OKAY, this seems pretty straight forward, right?

But apparently there is some strong speculation that there is more to this testimony than we see in this report.

I have investigated something that is being discussed about these prosecution witnesses.

OK, the defense has complained a few times in various hearings, about the 'vague undefined' report about their upcoming testimony. And it seems the reason they are complaining and asking for more information is that the Barnharts specialise in more than just cellebrite phone data.

They actually are very involved in rooting out DEEP FAKE AI ---specifically cell phone pictures and videos. They designed apps which can verify the meta data in order to recognise phony pictures.

For example celebrities who are falsely accused of doing or saying something ---for example, someone makes an AI photo of them cheating on their spouse.

OK WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

There is strong speculation about the alibi info originally given about BK being in that Wawhee Park, or whatever it is called...And in the hearing, AT said that BK always takes photos of the night sky when he goes there at night.

It is being said that AT is wanting to know exactly what the Barnharts are going to testify to because the defense allegedly is going to offer the court a PHOTO taken on Nov 13th, 22---and they will say it proves that he was too far away from crime scene

And they say that the meta data on the picture will show, EVEN IF PHONE NOT HOOKED TO WIFI at the time, that he was in that park and not in Moscow.

And so AT wants to prevent the Barnhart's from testifying to the authenticity of the photo.


{Dear Mods---this video is Heather and Jared Barnhart----they are testifying as prosecution experts]

Agree, and SG also said that the park BK used for his Stargazing alibi had cameras. No White Elantra with PA back plate only seen there at the time of the murders I'd bet.

JMO