4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[MassGuy]

I’m beginning to wonder if BK found out about the knife sheath at the same time as the rest of the world!!??

He could very well have stripped off all his clothes in great haste and frenzy before getting in his car, rolling everything up (in afore-mentioned shower curtain) and tossing the bundle in his trunk to be disposed of on his way back home with no reason to believe it was missing.

Then of course congratulating and memorializing himself in that sickening selfie. Little did he know…

I think that's entirely possible. Had he realized he left the sheath behind, I think that morning trip back to the crime scene doesn't happen. If he's returning to the area to watch/get off on the law enforcement response, you'd think he didn't have any concern about the sheath at the time. I'd expect some level of panic if he knew it was missing, and he'd want nothing to do with that area.

Who knows though. He's a super weird dude, and the usual rules may not apply.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

All of this. Plus so much more.

For instance, his (IMO, janky and not very intellectual) questionnaire.

Whether he had handwritten it, or certainly used a keyboard to type it and send it out, those are fine motor skills. Grading papers and writing comments—-fine motor.

Using a cell phone? Taking pictures? Fine motor.

The little boy who allegedly struggled with shoelaces and forming his numerals had apparently outgrown at least these traits.

In the social realm, yes, there I would agree with him having aspects of ASD.

I do cringe when the defense tries to weasel him out of trouble by ascribing to him afflictions he apparently does not have.

IMO

He did an online grad degree so he had to manage an online learning platform.

 

[303gmf]

Thx for the tip!

Volume low for me, real low

 

[Megnut]

He did an online grad degree so he had to manage an online learning platform.

He probably presents a whole helluva lot better from behind a screen too.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

Volume low for me, real low

LOL. Was for everyone, apparently. It only lasts for about the first 2 mins and 20 seconds, and then he realizes it is low, and turns the volume up. I was checking my speakers and connections, wondering what was wrong.

 

[mpnola]

I love when I love new things on WS!!! Thanks to the poster who mentioned knife evidence tubes. I did not know that was a thing! I took some screenshots of some Google search results. I can definitely see why someone would think it's a vacuum extender type piece. Especially if he painted it black or bought a black one.

 

[gremlin444]

You may be right. I do believe it is likely that he wrapped the knife in a tee shirt or towel or something to avoid leaving a trail of blood back to his car. I also believe that he probably did not miss the sheath immediately, but I think by the time he got wherever he was going to get his stuff out of his car, he probably realized he didn't have it. Just grabbing the knife through a towel or such, he would likely have been able to feel the sheath was missing. I believe there is no way he did not want to take one last look at the knife before burying it or tossing it into the river or pond, and he certainly would have known by then. Like you, I would love to have seen his face the moment he realized he left it behind.

I also have not completely ruled out that at least part of the reason for the trip back to the murder scene at 9am may have been to see if he could spot it lying around wherever he got out of his killing attire, and retrieve it before police arrived. JMO

In the posted and approved interview with Steve Goncalves, he mentioned something about this that gave me pause. Now, it's coming from SG, so I don't know if this something he is guessing or was told by LE, or what, so take it with a grain of salt:

at 1 hr 24 min and 32 seconds into the video (punctuated added for clarity):

"I think the vacuum cleaner is just the K-bar with one of the shirts that he grabbed and wrapped it around it. So you have a K-bar in your hand, and you wrap a shirt around it. What does it do? It goes big and then goes down. And I think he just seen the amount of blood, he wasn't sure if it was his, blood everywhere. So he just wrapped it up and bolted out of the house trying to mitigate the the trail as much as he possibly could because he was going to that door where he had the rest of his kit."

From his wording, he makes it sound as though it is a fact that a shirt was missing from house (IMHO). Whether or not that is a fact or a surmise on his part, I don't know.

I think it would be hard to know for sure that a shirt was missing from Maddie's room or Xana's room....it's not like their parents would have current knowledge of their wardrobe.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

RBBM

Somehow I completely missed any news reports regarded the above bolded sentences. Is this something Blum said? I just can't imagine Ramsland contacting BK's parents for any reason at this stage.

I found the source. Of course, it was Howard Blum's book, When the Night Comes Calling. So take it with a grain of salt. It's long, so I'll edit it. Starting page 147.

THAT NIGHT IN ALBRIGHTSVILLE, THE Kohbergers received a call that took them by surprise. It was from one of their son’s former professors, Dr. Katherine Ramsland. The name struck a chord. Maryann Kohberger had heard her son talking with respect and enthusiasm about the DeSales University professor, a celebrated authority on serial killers. After the arrest, a lot of people had been telephoning, especially the press, and she had scrupulously refused to talk. It was all too painful. But she wanted to hear what Dr. Ramsland had to say. Later, the professor would adamantly refuse to comment on any aspect of the case, including any discussions she may or may not have had with the Kohbergers. But according to the version of the conversation the Kohbergers had confided to a friend, Dr. Ramsland offered her help. She felt unable to make, the professor reportedly began, any judgment about Bryan’s guilt or innocence. However, if the family needed any advice as the case proceeded, she would be glad to share her expertise. Bryan, she went on, had been one of her most promising students. The Kohbergers were seduced...... The discussion quickly turned to their son’s extradition hearing. Did the professor think Bryan should contest Idaho’s attempt to have him return for trial? They had been urging Bryan to oppose the writ; they wanted him close to home for as long as possible. But Bryan disagreed. He was determined to prove his innocence, and the sooner that happened, then the sooner this entire nightmare would be over. What do you think, Dr. Ramsland? the Kohbergers asked. The professor agreed with Bryan. If he was intent on establishing his innocence, then there was no point in putting off that fight. Anyway, she predicted confidently, Idaho would eventually succeed. A legal skirmish would just be postponing the inevitable extradition. That night the Kohbergers spoke with their son on the phone and conveyed Dr. Ramsland’s thoughts. Bryan, his mother told an acquaintance, had seemed very excited that his old professor had reached out to his family.

 

[angelainwi]

Katherine Ramsland called BK's parents after his arrest to provide support to them. Reportedly BK was VERY excited that she did so?

How do we know this? Did I miss something?

I am not finding where it says she called them, can you help a sister out...

 

[angelainwi]

I am not finding where it says she called them, can you help a sister out...

Disregard, I see it was Blum's book. Of course she never called his parents.

 

[Megnut]

It's like he's 12 and the principal called -- to say BK is sitting out of recess, but no worries, what he did wasn't that bad.

Except it was bad, very bad, Awful with a Capital offense A.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

I am not finding where it says she called them, can you help a sister out...

I can't, I was asking the same question.
I was hoping someone would supply the answer.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

First, thank you so much for taking the time to summarize and transcribe key parts of the interview with SG. I listened to it last night, but it is great to have something to easily look back at for important points.

I have always wondered if BK specifically crossed the state line to commit the murders, which I believe that he may have, and if there was a reason, and again, I believe that there might have been.

Any of you long timers here will likely remember a dedicated, verified poster, @Foxfire, who was a retired Atlanta fire department captain, and who volunteered with some search and rescue groups. He very often talked about the phenomenon called jurisdictional linkage blindness, which is the failure of law enforcement agencies to recognize or share information across jurisdictional boundaries, which can hinder investigations, particularly in cases of violent serial crimes. I am sure that, as a student of criminology, BK would be familiar with linkage blindness, even if he was not familiar with the nearby Lewis-Clark Valley murders., which he likely was. As far as we know, the King Rd murders were BK's first, but I think most of us here believe, had he not been caught, they would not have been his last. Did he cross state lines, believing that a department's jurisdiction stopped at the county/state line, and neighboring departments would not be full partners in working to solve the crimes? Did he think that the small towns of Moscow and Pullman would not be adequately trained and work together? Did he not realize that the FBI surely would be in on day 1, working side-by-side with local agencies? Had he not been caught, would his next murders have been in Moscow, or would he have chosen Pullman, or maybe ventured a little farther out? Would he have killed, back home, in Pa? Thankfully, it seems very likely that he will never be free to hurt anyone else.

Finally, if he did intentionally cross state lines to kill, that is just one more bad move on his part, as Washington abolished the death penalty in 2018, while Idaho is preparing a firing squad for him.
JMO

Your point on jurisdictional linking blindness is a good one, especially crossing state lines. And as someone who grew up in a small town, I know that small towns don't have a lot of resources and probably no experience in mass murder. There also might be the best coordination between university police or public safety and the local police department.

However---crossing state lines brings in the FBI. Certainly BK should have know that. He might have counted on the local police assuming the killer was linked to the U of Idaho or the town of Moscow.

 

[gremlin444]

In the posted and approved interview with Steve Goncalves, he mentioned something about this that gave me pause. Now, it's coming from SG, so I don't know if this something he is guessing or was told by LE, or what, so take it with a grain of salt:

at 1 hr 24 min and 32 seconds into the video (punctuated added for clarity):

"I think the vacuum cleaner is just the K-bar with one of the shirts that he grabbed and wrapped it around it. So you have a K-bar in your hand, and you wrap a shirt around it. What does it do? It goes big and then goes down. And I think he just seen the amount of blood, he wasn't sure if it was his, blood everywhere. So he just wrapped it up and bolted out of the house trying to mitigate the the trail as much as he possibly could because he was going to that door where he had the rest of his kit."

From his wording, he makes it sound as though it is a fact that a shirt was missing from house (IMHO). Whether or not that is a fact or a surmise on his part, I don't know.

I think it would be hard to know for sure that a shirt was missing from Maddie's room or Xana's room....it's not like their parents would have current knowledge of their wardrobe.

I mean, it could be verified to be missing if it was something like one of the shirts that any of the 4 victims were seen wearing in that last photo. Or some favorite shirt that they were known to always wear--like a band shirt, or specific UofI shirt, etc. In that case, Ethan's siblings or one of the surviving roommates might be able to verify it was missing.

 

[Warwick7]

I found the source. Of course, it was Howard Blum's book, When the Night Comes Calling. So take it with a grain of salt. It's long, so I'll edit it. Starting page 147.

THAT NIGHT IN ALBRIGHTSVILLE, THE Kohbergers received a call that took them by surprise. It was from one of their son’s former professors, Dr. Katherine Ramsland. The name struck a chord. Maryann Kohberger had heard her son talking with respect and enthusiasm about the DeSales University professor, a celebrated authority on serial killers. After the arrest, a lot of people had been telephoning, especially the press, and she had scrupulously refused to talk. It was all too painful. But she wanted to hear what Dr. Ramsland had to say. Later, the professor would adamantly refuse to comment on any aspect of the case, including any discussions she may or may not have had with the Kohbergers. But according to the version of the conversation the Kohbergers had confided to a friend, Dr. Ramsland offered her help. She felt unable to make, the professor reportedly began, any judgment about Bryan’s guilt or innocence. However, if the family needed any advice as the case proceeded, she would be glad to share her expertise. Bryan, she went on, had been one of her most promising students. The Kohbergers were seduced...... The discussion quickly turned to their son’s extradition hearing. Did the professor think Bryan should contest Idaho’s attempt to have him return for trial? They had been urging Bryan to oppose the writ; they wanted him close to home for as long as possible. But Bryan disagreed. He was determined to prove his innocence, and the sooner that happened, then the sooner this entire nightmare would be over. What do you think, Dr. Ramsland? the Kohbergers asked. The professor agreed with Bryan. If he was intent on establishing his innocence, then there was no point in putting off that fight. Anyway, she predicted confidently, Idaho would eventually succeed. A legal skirmish would just be postponing the inevitable extradition. That night the Kohbergers spoke with their son on the phone and conveyed Dr. Ramsland’s thoughts. Bryan, his mother told an acquaintance, had seemed very excited that his old professor had reached out to his family.

Blum...of all people Blum...
It may be in a book, but until we hear other backing I chose not to believe Blum.

 

[Warwick7]

I mean, it could be verified to be missing if it was something like one of the shirts that any of the 4 victims were seen wearing in that last photo. Or some favorite shirt that they were known to always wear--like a band shirt, or specific UofI shirt, etc. In that case, Ethan's siblings or one of the surviving roommates might be able to verify it was missing.

Or, if it was laying on a dresser or across a chair, one could find a bloody hand print picking it up.

 

[Megnut]

Or, if it was laying on a dresser or across a chair, one could find a bloody hand print picking it up.

Drawing on this discussion, if there's merit, it would have been taken from XK's room. (I wonder if any blood dripped on the upper staircase.) When he left MM's room, he was aware a female was awake (if he heard DM), so he'd descended IMO with sword drawn.

Once he left XK's room, IMO he was hellbent on getting the hell out, might have grabbed a shirt to contain the blood. He may have attempted to wipe his shoes off too. Maybe the shirt or shirts XK and/or EC were verified to have been wearing were missing from the crime scene.

JMO

 

[JudyBolton]

Of course, BK's DNA was transferred to the sheath. That's how it got there. And he's not only the obvious one who transferred it there, the evidence bears it out.

Someone with a car like his was seen circling the neighborhood for almost an hour.

Someone with brybrows like him (with the same tall, lean, athletic build) was seen in the house.

He bought a knife with a sheath, just like what was used in the murders and left at the scene.

His phone was off during the exact time frame.

No evidence anyone else at any time had access to BK's knife or sheath.

Solid conclusion: BK transferred his own DNA onto the sheath, and BK transported the sheath to the crime scene where it was left behind.

That it was stupid, well, that's another matter entirely.

JMO

Either the most unlucky man in modern history or guilty as all heck!

 

[Megnut]

I think this latest revelation that DM may have seen XK ("passed out" on the floor) before DM ran to BF's room actually frames the 7 hours and supports what she had been trying to explain, how her brain was addled and she was trying to make sense of the senseless, through the double haze of sleepiness and alcohol. She didn't trust her perception. Like expecting someone whose bell had just been rung to do math. It was fuzzy. And not just the brybrow. Her recall.

Firefighter BK who was there "to help people", who was carrying a vacuum and wearing a face covering but she couldn't say whether he was real or not (a surprisingly lucid memory, given her stupor AND the oddity of BK moving past her as if he hadn't seen her), it had to be confusing in its own right.

Had she been awake, alert, she might have run TO XK to see if she needed help. I think her state of body and being was such that she didn't trust the details. And by morning, she didn't want to believe any of it... because if you believe it, you make it real, and if it's real, you can't unbelieve it anymore.

I find that her doubtfulness lends to her credibility.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

Your point on jurisdictional linking blindness is a good one, especially crossing state lines. And as someone who grew up in a small town, I know that small towns don't have a lot of resources and probably no experience in mass murder. There also might be the best coordination between university police or public safety and the local police department.

However---crossing state lines brings in the FBI. Certainly BK should have know that. He might have counted on the local police assuming the killer was linked to the U of Idaho or the town of Moscow.

I agree, and again, I do not think his plans were for committing four murders. Had he only committed one, as, I believe the plan may have been, perhaps he assumed the crime investigation would stay local. JMO