4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[femto]

I think we're circling the truth.

No one puts a bloody knife in a sheath. I mean, maybe you do if you know you're going to bury it...

IMO he left the third floor fully intending to use the knife on whoever was awake below. It wasn't until he left XK that he might have realized he didn't want to drip blood all over...

Realistically, it's like the sheath served its purpose, it got him in the door, blade protected.

I wonder if someone could re-enact that hand placement. One victim. One assailant. Pulls the knife out of the sheath, that hand goes to the bed for leverage, the other hand has the knife, thrusts/plunges, but suddenly there's a second victim, hand comes up leaving the sheath on the bed.

FWIW I don't think he ever planned to put a bloody knife back in the sheath.

Doubt it bothered him. He thought he'd cleaned it.

JMO

No-one who plans to kill also brings a sheath and unsheathes said knife in the middle of committing his crime. It's very hard to ascertain what Bryan's goal was but given his movements it is probable that he had a very specific victim in mind (most likely Maddie) and everything else that happened was the scene going completely out of his control. He most likely didn't expect Maddie and Kaylee to sleep in the same bed which ruined his goal of raping or killing Maddie (or Kaylee) quietly, then he probably didn't expect Xana to be awake at 4:00 AM and he most certainly didn't expect Ethan to be there.

Generally speaking I am of the thought that he just wanted to murder Maddie quietly, slip out of the house leaving no evidence and then have the police waste their time focusing on the other roommates. By the time the police have removed the suspects and started searching for something else, his trail would have gone cold. I am also in agreement with SG that Bryan rushed this as he was frustrated that the number of times he went there the roommates were occupied. While it does seem like a planned crime, it also seems like something he did in a spur of the moment given his somewhat aimless driving minutes before deciding to park behind the house.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

No-one who plans to kill also brings a sheath and unsheathes said knife in the middle of committing his crime. It's very hard to ascertain what Bryan's goal was but given his movements it is probable that he had a very specific victim in mind (most likely Maddie) and everything else that happened was the scene going completely out of his control. He most likely didn't expect Maddie and Kaylee to sleep in the same bed which ruined his goal of raping or killing Maddie (or Kaylee) quietly, then he probably didn't expect Xana to be awake at 4:00 AM and he most certainly didn't expect Ethan to be there.

Generally speaking I am of the thought that he just wanted to murder Maddie quietly, slip out of the house leaving no evidence and then have the police waste their time focusing on the other roommates. By the time the police have removed the suspects and started searching for something else, his trail would have gone cold. I am also in agreement with SG that Bryan rushed this as he was frustrated that the number of times he went there the roommates were occupied. While it does seem like a planned crime, it also seems like something he did in a spur of the moment given his somewhat aimless driving minutes before deciding to park behind the house.

I agree with this. I agree that probably harming or killing MM was his goal. As we don't know what other weapons or methods of assault he had about his person, it's hard to say what his plan was but he could have also had something to inject her with to render her unconscious or a gas like chloroform on a rag to knock her out. He could have even been armed with a gun.

Since he took the sheath, I would assume he was using it as intended - to hold the knife inside the sheath until it were needed, thereby not accidentally dropping it or causing himself a cut.
Since he's a runner and generally sporty person, he would be familiar with the concept of strapping and clipping all required accessories to his body whilst on the move. So my guess is he had the sheath fixed to himself, on a belt or some sort of clip that during the incident failed. OR he discarded the sheath intentionally whilst 'knowing' that it had no trace of him.

I doubt he'd leave the house with a great big soiled blooded used knife held out in front of him - risk of being seen and risk of spreading evidence - and he wouldn't want to risk it could slip and cut or stab him so I really do think that he'd have brought a secure container, maybe just a silicone envelope, for it. JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I wonder, if his plan had gone smoothly, if he was intending to get himself involved in the investigations or be a 'helper' somehow?

 

[Sachi]

No-one who plans to kill also brings a sheath and unsheathes said knife in the middle of committing his crime. It's very hard to ascertain what Bryan's goal was but given his movements it is probable that he had a very specific victim in mind (most likely Maddie) and everything else that happened was the scene going completely out of his control. He most likely didn't expect Maddie and Kaylee to sleep in the same bed which ruined his goal of raping or killing Maddie (or Kaylee) quietly, then he probably didn't expect Xana to be awake at 4:00 AM and he most certainly didn't expect Ethan to be there.

Generally speaking I am of the thought that he just wanted to murder Maddie quietly, slip out of the house leaving no evidence and then have the police waste their time focusing on the other roommates. By the time the police have removed the suspects and started searching for something else, his trail would have gone cold. I am also in agreement with SG that Bryan rushed this as he was frustrated that the number of times he went there the roommates were occupied. While it does seem like a planned crime, it also seems like something he did in a spur of the moment given his somewhat aimless driving minutes before deciding to park behind the house.

Just for chat

Pertaining to your 1st sentence. I think he had the sheath on the knife protecting him from cutting himself and to concealed it, even in the 4 am quiet. Also, sheath likely has a belt loop clip and it was clipped on to his coveralls and somehow that is where it became unfastened during his rampage? Perhaps this is how they know what fibers the sheath was rubbing up against and could pinpoint the type and make of clothing he wore.

 

[pseudo_hum]

I wonder, if his plan had gone smoothly, if he was intending to get himself involved in the investigations or be a 'helper' somehow?

Agreed, IMO, he could provide insight no one else could. And that was a tantalizing thought for him.

 

[Sachi]

I wonder, if his plan had gone smoothly, if he was intending to get himself involved in the investigations or be a 'helper' somehow?

Believe this 100% as do many here so I speak from the bleachers. I believe he was going to carve out his career using the very murders he committed to laud his intelligence , garner attention and perhaps coin new theory and pontificate about a new profile type of killer.. write book(s). He wanted his own killer to be brilliant about and this was the perfect way to control it- create it.

Spitballing

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Maybe he didn't even have an obsession or fixation on any of the young women at all - maybe he simply targeted 'the house' as was mentioned by LE early on, as he knew it was a transient student party household with various single women in residence (or so he thought) and his intention was to sneak into a populated home and kill one person - no motive, no connection, no evidence. A total mystery. Just a game. Perhaps he really is zero empathy, lacking in bits of brain wiring, doesn't comprehend that games in which people die are traumatic and soul destroying to the vast majority of human beings. For him it was possibly a bold career move or just a bit of entertainment.

We haven't heard much about his personality except negative things and that he was a good student in parts and valued his academic and personal achievements (weight loss etc). Have we heard anything about his personality? Anything about him being kind, helpful, thoughtful? Doing volunteer work or keeping a beloved pet or helping old folks across the road type of thing? I wonder.

JMO MOO

 

[Miss Poovy]

Maybe he didn't even have an obsession or fixation on any of the young women at all - maybe he simply targeted 'the house' as was mentioned by LE early on, as he knew it was a transient student party household with various single women in residence (or so he thought) and his intention was to sneak into a populated home and kill one person - no motive, no connection, no evidence. A total mystery. Just a game. Perhaps he really is zero empathy, lacking in bits of brain wiring, doesn't comprehend that games in which people die are traumatic and soul destroying to the vast majority of human beings. For him it was possibly a bold career move or just a bit of entertainment.

We haven't heard much about his personality except negative things and that he was a good student in parts and valued his academic and personal achievements (weight loss etc). Have we heard anything about his personality? Anything about him being kind, helpful, thoughtful? Doing volunteer work or keeping a beloved pet or helping old folks across the road type of thing? I wonder.

JMO MOO

A lot of times you don’t hear the nicer things about alleged murders, unless there’s friends, colleagues that are totally shocked. Plus, he was in college during 20-22 era when it was harder to make connections.

Most people seem to believe the murders were a targeted one, IMO. I guess we’ll know more once the trial starts.

 

[DizzyB]

Pertaining to your 1st sentence. I think he had the sheath on the knife protecting him from cutting himself and to concealed it, even in the 4 am quiet. Also, sheath likely has a belt loop clip and it was clipped on to his coveralls and somehow that is where it became unfastened during his rampage? Perhaps this is how they know what fibers the sheath was rubbing up against and could pinpoint the type and make of clothing he wore.

Were there no belt loops on the coveralls, making him have to carry it? Did he realize that ahead of time, during the planning process? I also thought it could be a game-plant the meticulously cleaned sheath ( or touched only with gloves) with absolutely no DNA at the scene. There was early talk that Ka Bars were mostly used by those in the military-a misdirection? Thank goodness for a pesky snap.

I lean toward it being a lot more chaotic. He may have set the sheath down, then had to deal with two people quickly instead of one. In the middle of that, Xana was up and he may have heard her. He may have moved quickly to silence her, without thinking of the sheath. Maybe he planned to go back up the stairs before he left. Then there was Ethan. By the time he left, the sheath may have been the last thing he was thinking about. I still don’t know if he saw Dylan. He may have just known he needed to get out quickly.

 

[Justice101]

I agree with this. I agree that probably harming or killing MM was his goal. As we don't know what other weapons or methods of assault he had about his person, it's hard to say what his plan was but he could have also had something to inject her with to render her unconscious or a gas like chloroform on a rag to knock her out. He could have even been armed with a gun.

Since he took the sheath, I would assume he was using it as intended - to hold the knife inside the sheath until it were needed, thereby not accidentally dropping it or causing himself a cut.
Since he's a runner and generally sporty person, he would be familiar with the concept of strapping and clipping all required accessories to his body whilst on the move. So my guess is he had the sheath fixed to himself, on a belt or some sort of clip that during the incident failed. OR he discarded the sheath intentionally whilst 'knowing' that it had no trace of him.

I doubt he'd leave the house with a great big soiled blooded used knife held out in front of him - risk of being seen and risk of spreading evidence - and he wouldn't want to risk it could slip and cut or stab him so I really do think that he'd have brought a secure container, maybe just a silicone envelope, for it. JMO MOO

I personally think that it was a little different. Just my opinion of course.

I think he chose that house because he could park in the back and have an eye-level view of Maddie's room sitting in the shadows in his car with the lights and engine off in that small dimly lit parking lot. Probably sat there for hours many nights watching her in her bedroom and waiting for her to turn out the lights. He never saw a second girl. Probably figured out where the stairs were based on apartment layouts available on line for renters.

I think he knew he could get up there and kill her. Due to the mask and (presumably) gloves, I don't think he would have raped her per se because I don't think he wanted to touch her to leave even a shred of evidence. His goals were to 1) kill her and then 2) leave with none of his DNA left there.

Furthermore, I think he either lost the sheath in the struggle when he found 2 girls in bed.. OR he place it there deliberately as a calling card because he was sure he had wiped it completely clean.

I can't get over the thought that he was totally obsessed with serial killers... and presumably, like one of them, fantasized that he would also leave a signature and be smart enough to know how to not get caught.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I personally think that it was a little different. Just my opinion of course.

I think he chose that house because he could park in the back and have eye level view in the shadows of Maddie's room.

I think he knew he could get up there and kill her. Due to the mask and (presumably) gloves, I don't think he would have raped her per se because I don't think he wanted to touch her to leave evidence. His goals were kill her and then leave he with none of his DNA.

Furthermore, I think he either lost the sheath in the struggle when he found 2 girls in bed.. OR he place it there deliberately as a calling card because he had wiped it clean. I can't get over the idea that he was obsessed with serial killers... and presumably what they left as signatures and how to not get caught.

I agree with your points too - that he'd been able to see inside the room(s) and this propelled his plan. As opposed to say, having a negative interaction with one of the young women and targeting them or stalking one of them. It is possible that one of the household members triggered his intrigue but the fact he could park up the hill at the back and look directly into particular windows and then climb around onto the veranda etc possibly turned it from an idea into an actionable plan, alongside all his studies of crime and criminals - the perfect storm even.

 

[Miss Poovy]

I agree with your points too - that he'd been able to see inside the room(s) and this propelled his plan. As opposed to say, having a negative interaction with one of the young women and targeting them or stalking one of them. It is possible that one of the household members triggered his intrigue but the fact he could park up the hill at the back and look directly into particular windows and then climb around onto the veranda etc possibly turned it from an idea into an actionable plan, alongside all his studies of crime and criminals - the perfect storm even.

Sounds more & more creepy, if that’s possible.

 

[gremlin444]

Were there no belt loops on the coveralls, making him have to carry it? Did he realize that ahead of time, during the planning process? I also thought it could be a game-plant the meticulously cleaned sheath ( or touched only with gloves) with absolutely no DNA at the scene. There was early talk that Ka Bars were mostly used by those in the military-a misdirection? Thank goodness for a pesky snap.

Dickies coveralls don't have belt loops. Of the two very basic models of coverall that would have been available at Walmart, one of them has a fabric loop to shove a hammer through, but it's pretty low on the outer thigh and loose, so attaching the sheath there would have it extending past your knee and swinging around.

 

[al66pine]

Blum's Book. Dr. Ramsland (supposed) Call to BK's Parents???

I found the source. Of course, it was Howard Blum's book, When the Night Comes Calling. So take it with a grain of salt. It's long, so I'll edit it. Starting page 147.

THAT NIGHT IN ALBRIGHTSVILLE, THE Kohbergers received a call that took them by surprise. It was from one of their son’s former professors, Dr. Katherine Ramsland. The name struck a chord. Maryann Kohberger had heard her son talking with respect and enthusiasm about the DeSales University professor, a celebrated authority on serial killers. After the arrest, a lot of people had been telephoning, especially the press, and she had scrupulously refused to talk. It was all too painful. But she wanted to hear what Dr. Ramsland had to say. Later, the professor would adamantly refuse to comment on any aspect of the case, including any discussions she may or may not have had with the Kohbergers. But according to the version of the conversation the Kohbergers had confided to a friend, Dr. Ramsland offered her help. She felt unable to make, the professor reportedly began, any judgment about Bryan’s guilt or innocence. However, if the family needed any advice as the case proceeded, she would be glad to share her expertise. Bryan, she went on, had been one of her most promising students. The Kohbergers were seduced...... The discussion quickly turned to their son’s extradition hearing. Did the professor think Bryan should contest Idaho’s attempt to have him return for trial? They had been urging Bryan to oppose the writ; they wanted him close to home for as long as possible. But Bryan disagreed. He was determined to prove his innocence, and the sooner that happened, then the sooner this entire nightmare would be over. What do you think, Dr. Ramsland? the Kohbergers asked. The professor agreed with Bryan. If he was intent on establishing his innocence, then there was no point in putting off that fight. Anyway, she predicted confidently, Idaho would eventually succeed. A legal skirmish would just be postponing the inevitable extradition. That night the Kohbergers spoke with their son on the phone and conveyed Dr. Ramsland’s thoughts. Bryan, his mother told an acquaintance, had seemed very excited that his old professor had reached out to his family.

@MeadowMuffin
Thanks for tracking down the the answer. Brilliant.

- Dr. Ramsland & BK's parents?
Did a convo like Blum described actually occur?

- BK & his parents? Presumably call(s) which would have been recorded w. BK in jail?


Blum's writing style. A good fit w DailyMail imo.

 

[Miss Poovy]

Dickies coveralls don't have belt loops. Of the two very basic models of coverall that would have been available at Walmart, one of them has a fabric loop to shove a hammer through, but it's pretty low on the outer thigh and loose, so attaching the sheath there would have it extending past your knee and swinging around.

I had a friend whose grandfather wore a style of dickies (he was retired) and it had the “fake belt” that separated the top from the bottom. Was just an extra layer of fabric top stitched, sometimes with a small metal very fake square of metal, indicating the buckle. Totaling not functioning.

 

[SteveP]

I agree with your points too - that he'd been able to see inside the room(s) and this propelled his plan. As opposed to say, having a negative interaction with one of the young women and targeting them or stalking one of them. It is possible that one of the household members triggered his intrigue but the fact he could park up the hill at the back and look directly into particular windows and then climb around onto the veranda etc possibly turned it from an idea into an actionable plan, alongside all his studies of crime and criminals - the perfect storm even.

I do not know if he initially was fixated on the house, or on someone in it. I believe good arguments could be made to support either idea. I do, however, agree with you that he likely, on many occasions, parked up behind the house and stared directly into MM's room, and she became a/the target of his plans. Whether he fixated on her because she was the easiest to spy on, or whether he was already fixated on her due to some previous encounter, which she may not even have been aware of, I cannot say. I do believe he had watched her often, as well as anything and anyone else he could see from the spot in the back, and I believe that by the time he entered the house to commit the murders, he was pretty familiar with the layout of the house, at least to the parts he wanted to go to, and may even have slipped inside previously, testing the security of the slider. It may well be that the reason he never likely went downstairs is because he could not see anything of those rooms from his rear viewing spot. I am a bit surprised though, that, among things confiscated at his home, his parents' home, and his car, a pair of binoculars was never found, which I feel like he would have owned, nor was a telescope found, which, in addition to being great for gazing at those stars that he was so fond of doing, also would have been great for spying into bedrooms from a distance. JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

View attachment 582012

The expression on his face is so odd, imo.

If I was incarcerated, waiting for my DP trial, falsely accused of brutally killing 4 students, that^^^ is not the expression on my face.

I think I'd look sad, sullen, fearful, depressed, angry? But he looks almost satisfied, smiling slightly, calm?

He looks proud to me. Almost a smirk.
He still thinks he’s the smartest guy around and is sure we’re all in awe of him.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Excuse my potentially insensitive wording.

He wasn’t studying course materials or writing a true thesis, that was secondary. He was studying how to kill people based on the information he was gathering & playing perpetrator with his new USMC backup weapon.

Going forward, I’m thinking out loud a bit. This whole t-shirt around the knife thing. If he’s already planned to strip off the outerwear, no point in picking something up which could be potential evidence in a victim’s shirt is there? He’d have to know he was going to get messy - just wipe the blade on a leg or sleeve or chest. Much easier & no wasting time looking for this wrapping. If I’m carrying a knife to stab people who are likely asleep, the knife is going to be in stabbing position, downward & along my forearm, not pointing up as if I’m preparing a fine vegan meal with a chef’s knife or stab upwards or forward - I’m in a house where occupants should be asleep. I’m stabbing down. Maybe that vacuum looking attachment was just the knife?

Here’s something to ponder from a selfie I just took. What does this vacuum cleaner attachment look like when carried as shown (or in "chef" position for that matter)? A little short but the profile is strikingly similar to Brybry’s new toy from Amazon.

View attachment 582146

Spitballing, JMO.

From your post…

“He wasn’t studying course materials or writing a true thesis, that was secondary. He was studying how to kill people…”

I think you nailed it.
“He was studying how to kill people” should be the first line in the prosecutors opening statement.

 

[Dexter12]

Bryan Kohberger's new mugshot tantalizes his twisted fans

Bryan Kohberger's twisted fans, who are infatuated by quadruple murder suspect, have descended into a frenzy after his new mugshot was published by Ada County Sheriff's Office this week.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In case anyone missed this from last September - New mugshot

View attachment 582012

Those eyes, they are blank. IMO.

 

[bugenjoyer]

I've seen a few people here saying that MM was probably his main target. Has that been established? What's the reasoning? I admit i haven't read through all of the many threads of this case because it's overwhelming, but I've been wondering about this.