4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

[Rolypolyoly]

When I first got my phone (either this one or the one before that) we checked the location. It had me sitting in the living room 3 feet from where I actually was in the bathroom. Spooky close, showing exactly where in my house I was within 3 ft variance. I felt like someone could drop a bomb on me. JMOO

Mine always says I'm over the road in my neighbours house

 

[jepop]

Dang, Hippler is coming in hot! He's not mincing words. This may seem like a boring order, but don't skip it---shooting down a lot of defense claims.

So that it doesn't get buried, I'm putting my favorite line first...it will show up later in the post in context:

"Rather, Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."

Defense should consider themselves lucky Hippler said this in a file order instead of verbally, on camera, during a hearing. Because I'd try to disappear through the floor if that was said to me.
---------
"Because Defendant has failed to show a discovery violation or due process violation by the State, sanctions are not warranted. The Court further declines to require the State to provide further organizational assistance to Defendant."

footnote 4:
"Despite presenting this motion in briefing as a Brady violation, at the hearing on the motion Defendant confusingly requested that the Court view the motion "not as a Brady violation but as a due process violation[.]" However, Defendant appears to misapprehend the scope of his due process rights regarding discovery. "There is no general constitutional right to discovery in a criminal case." Weatherford v. Bursey, 429 U.S. 545, 559 (1977). In fact, "the Due Process Clause has little to say regarding the amount of discovery which the parties must be afforded... " Wardius v. Oregon, 412 U.S. 470, 474 (1973). Rather, it is Brady and its progeny that serve to uphold a criminal defendant's due process rights with regard to discovery. As the United States Supreme Court has explained, "[t}he Brady rule is based on the requirement of due process. Its purpose is not to displace the adversary system as the 2 primary means by which truth is uncovered, but to ensure that a miscarriage ofjustice does not occur." Bagley, 473 US. at 675. Thus, it is Brady that governs the Court's analysis of Defendant's alleged due process rights violation."

Nice of Judge Hippler to process the violation motion correctly, despite the defense presenting it wrong.

"Specifically, the State contends that most of the data is from cell phone extractions and weeks of surveillance video footage throughout the Moscow area obtained following the homicides. It affirmed on the record that it is unaware of any Brady material in those videos other than those specifically identified in motion practice and otherwise throughout the case. Further, the State's experts who reviewed the various devices (including cell phones) and other digital data have disclosed opinions that they found no connection between Defendant and the victims from the devices and data."

Defense said they wanted everything so that they could try to make an alibi. They got everything.

"The State also notes that since this case began over two years ago, it has continuously turned over to Defendant all the information it received from the various investigating agencies in the same format as the information was received by the State."

footnote 6:
"The State explained that all the evidence in this case was routed to it from the various investigating agencies. Once received, the State would copy it and then place it directly on Defendant's server in the same fashion and format it was received. The State has maintained its files in that same format"

"State points out that on September 4, 2024-at approximately the same time as its discovery deadline it provided Defendant with a 320-page index identifying the location of requested discovery, a description ofthe evidence, and the date discovered. In addition, all of the evidence received from the FBI which comprises the majority-was provided to Defendant with a searchable index."

footnote 7
"In his reply, Defendant asserted that the State utilizes an pensive, technologically powerful case management software program called "Prosecutor by Karpel" which has a global search function to search all discovery and case documents at one time, generate reports from such searches and automatically transcribe audio and video files. Because he does not have access to similar technology, Defendant disputes he is on the same playing field as the State. However, at the hearing, the State disputed its evidence software program has any ofthese features. Instead, the prosecutors rely on a self-created spreadsheet to identify and manage discovery."
"First, while neither Brady nor ICR 16 prescribe the form discovery must take, it is well settled under federal law that there is no direct obligation for the government to identify or itemize Brady material for the defense."

"The State received the information from its investigating agencies, labeled the materials and turned them over to Defendant through a shared access drive in the same format as received. This method not only puts the State and Defendant on equal footing regarding discovery review, it also serves the important purpose of protecting against claims of missing or manipulated documents if the State puts them in a different format or organization or otherwise conveys them to Defendant in a different manner than received. While the State acknowledges that much ofthe discovery is "completely irrelevant," including surveillance videos and data from the numerous phones, computers and other devises, it did not produce it for purposes of padding the file or otherwise attempting, in bad faith, to hide Brady information in its haystack of information. Rather, Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."
*slow claps* Sir, I bow to you!

"In addition, Defendant's complaints of being unable to meaningfully review the discovery ring hollow. Defendant has been receiving discovery in the same manner for over two years. In that time, he has not once sought a remedy from this Court to regulate discovery, such as requiring the State to provide discovery in a different format. He has not sought additional resources under ICR 12.2 to hire additional staff to review discovery or obtain litigation document control software to help organize and sort the evidence. His lead counsel insisted that she be allowed to take on a second high-profile capital case despite the voluminous discovery in this case.'° Further, at oral argument, lead counsel indicated that her practice is to personally review all the discovery herself, rather than rely on associates and staff to review materials to cut through the less relevant information and point to what materials need review by lead counsel. These actions are not indicative of an overburdened defense team. In fact, it is evident Defendant has been able to capably navigate the discovery given his more than robust motion practice, the scope and breadth of the experts retained and the disclosures filed"

In other words--if you are so overburdened, why are you spending endless hours filing ridiculous motions (not all of them are) and insisting that only 1 person can go through the discovery despite that person also having another death penalty case. Ouch!

My God, Hippler misses nothing. Moo

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I think Judge H is going to be so awesome managing the trial and explaining things to the jury.

And I don't see him treating the jurors like yo-yos, bouncing them in and out and making them wait in the jury room for hours on end. He seems like the kind of judge that will hold both sides accountable---get your witnesses here ready to go or we're moving on. I hate the lax sloppy was some trials are run, and then the jurors get mistreated. IMO

This Judge takes the reins. I love him.

Agreed. I didn't think I would find another Judge as good as Judge Werner in Colorado but I was wrong!

 

[Warwick7]

MOO The punch was to keep her from screaming.

But.....so would a slash from that knife across her face. Why punch, when the blade has every advantage?! One quick slice across the throat would keep her from screaming.

Last night I was listening to a couple of brilliant WSers. Could it be, she simply woke up to what was happening to Maddie and out of instinct started kicking at him?

I think he got so pi$$ed so ANGRY he clocked her with the butt of that knife. SG said he did see the autopsy for his daughter. He said she had multiple hits to her face.

Now....how do you go from holding the knife a certain way (stabbing MM) to quckly repositioning that knife to hit KG in the face with the butt?

Maybe BK "repositioned" his hand because she kicked his hand, the knife fell on Maddie and in one swoop he picked it up and hit her face repeatedly.

Or it was suggested, while stabbing MM the force of the knife caused it to become lodged with in a bone for just a second. He clocked KG from screaming with his fist, grabbed the knife again (in a different position) and used the butt to repeatedly hit her face.

Others have caused me to try to think outside the box...

 

[Warwick7]

He could easily have broken her nose by hitting her with the hilt of the knife he was holding and she was possibly trying to fend off, just sayin. There was no second person needed, MO. BK had the mental and physical capabilities to manage it all, in his dead of the night home invasion. AJMO

Agreeeed!

 

[jepop]

I think Judge H is going to be so awesome managing the trial and explaining things to the jury.

And I don't see him treating the jurors like yo-yos, bouncing them in and out and making them wait in the jury room for hours on end. He seems like the kind of judge that will hold both sides accountable---get your witnesses here ready to go or we're moving on. I hate the lax sloppy was some trials are run, and then the jurors get mistreated. IMO

This Judge takes the reins. I love him.

It's a breath of fresh air seeing and reading Hippler in action. I feel confident he is going to oversee the trial fairly and impartially. Thanking karma, Judge Hippler was designated ( or self designated himself) to run the case after the triple JJJ granted defense's motion for Change of Venue. Jmo

 

[mmeynstyn]

Summary:

Bryan Kohberger, accused of murdering four University of Idaho students, allegedly maintained contact with his forensic psychology professor, Katherine Ramsland, before and after the killings. Ramsland, a prominent author and true-crime expert, allegedly offered guidance to Kohberger’s family after his arrest and has been involved in their defense strategy. The evidence suggests Kohberger sought to prove his abilities to Ramsland, driven by a twisted erotomania.

Definition:

"Erotomania is a rare mental health condition that happens when someone is fixated on the idea that another person is intensely in love with them. The other person may be a celebrity, wealthy, or of a high social position."

Interesting....JMO, I think this speaks to "motive.". He obviously looked up to her and considered her an expert in her field. He wanted her to be proud of the knowledge gained in the field when he got away with it (because we know he probably still thinks he will).

I also agree with the person that tied his question about an arrest of someone else to possibly her involvement. If he was still "collaborating" with her (before and then after the crime), he probably thought of her right away. Note: I put collaborating in parenthesis as I am sure she did not consider any continued dialog to be collaborating. IMO

 

[jepop]

Agreed. I didn't think I would find another Judge as good as Judge Werner in Colorado but I was wrong!

Werner was amazing! Along with the judge for Alex Murdaugh (? Sorry, I never thought I would forget his name, he blew my mind with his wisdom and compassion) and then, wow the judge who oversaw the Sarah Boone trial was the most patient, impartial judge I have ever seen, given the motions and drama he had to manage in the court room... Judge Hippler is on a par with all three to my mind, they are all differing personalities but share something...impartiality, erudite knowledge and application of the law, access to empathy and compassion * I think we've already seen Hippler exercise this quality both in his verbal interactions in hearings and his truly detailed and reasoned orders). Jmo

 

[Megnut]

But.....so would a slash from that knife across her face. Why punch, when the blade has every advantage?! One quick slice across the throat would keep her from screaming.

Last night I was listening to a couple of brilliant WSers. Could it be, she simply woke up to what was happening to Maddie and out of instinct started kicking at him?

I think he got so pi$$ed so ANGRY he clocked her with the butt of that knife. SG said he did see the autopsy for his daughter. He said she had multiple hits to her face.

Now....how do you go from holding the knife a certain way (stabbing MM) to quckly repositioning that knife to hit KG in the face with the butt?

Maybe BK "repositioned" his hand because she kicked his hand, the knife fell on Maddie and in one swoop he picked it up and hit her face repeatedly.

Or it was suggested, while stabbing MM the force of the knife caused it to become lodged with in a bone for just a second. He clocked KG from screaming with his fist, grabbed the knife again (in a different position) and used the butt to repeatedly hit her face.

Others have caused me to try to think outside the box...

I would be jello in combat, but in trying to make sense of this, and with help from @MassGuy, it sounds like the kbar does double as a pommel. We don't know what grip he had -- holding it like a sword or a plunger -- either way, he wouldn't need to switch his grip to reverse direction.

This screen grab shows how easy (and awful) it would be, without changing grip, to pommel someone in the face. The Kbar is a weapon on both ends.

JMO

 

[sripey]

Right. It may be. Just spitballing as mentioned before, he may have written a hypothetical detailed fictional account that mirrors the murder of Xana, Ethan, Kaylee and Maddy and she will be called to testifying to that and submitted that evidence , which shows MORE premeditation and how far back he was brainstorming it before putting it into action.

Sorry if this is redundant.

JMO

I think if he had written something like that we would have caught wind of it in some of these court filings. The defense fought to have BK's "Securing a Crime Scene" paper excluded from evidence and they would have done the same for anything he had written for Ramsland's class if was to be introduced as evidence by the prosection.

MOO

 

[Sundog]

Bryan Kohberger, accused of murdering four University of Idaho students, allegedly maintained contact with his forensic psychology professor, Katherine Ramsland, before and after the killings. Ramsland, a prominent author and true-crime expert, allegedly offered guidance to Kohberger’s family after his arrest and has been involved in their defense strategy. The evidence suggests Kohberger sought to prove his abilities to Ramsland, driven by a twisted erotomania.

Definition:

"Erotomania is a rare mental health condition that happens when someone is fixated on the idea that another person is intensely in love with them. The other person may be a celebrity, wealthy, or of a high social position."

I do think it's very possible that BK had become seriously infatuated - even obsessed - with his famous professor, Dr. Catherine Ramsland, while he was taking a course with her during his studies at DeSales University. The course that he took with her at Desales on "Extreme Murders" and the the fact that Ramsland had co-authored a book with BTK may be part of his motivations to commit the Idaho murders. It's possible that he fantasized (and maybe still does) co-authoring a book with Ramsland as well.
I have often thought about LE saying that the murderer "targeted that house" and this would fit with BK's obsession to be the next killer to get Ramsland's attention at the level of a BTK and eventually to be the co-author of a book with her.

And if Ramsland has been in contact with BK's family, I think it is likely, as others have noted, that her intention is to write a book at some point about the Idaho murders, not necessarily with BK, but possibly on her own with interviews from family members or information about his past, etc. BK's sister, for example, who works in the mental health field, may be one of the family members that Ramsland is particularly interested in talking to.

JMO

ETA That BK took a course with Ramsland on "Extreme Murders" was reported in the Dateline episode in May 2023 titled "The Killings on King Road."

 

[Sundog]

The Dateline episode in May 2023 on "The Killings on King Road" also reported that one of the assigned readings at DeSales University by Ramsland in her course that BK took was the book she co-wrote with BTK, "Confessions of a Serial Killer."

 

[wendy44]

I can't remember if I've thanked you for your recaps on pending Motions. So convenient, short and sweet, I've sent others to your posts when they've asked about pending Motions. So thank you @wendy44.

You're welcome! Once the judge issued his orders on Franks, you can really see how they got to work trying to exclude the evidence on other grounds. I have no problem with the defense arguing every last angle based on case law. It's when they cross the line into accusations of wrongdoing on the part of the state without any evidence that bothers me. They've been doing that since the beginning and it's led to a lot of distrust and conspiracy theory. Try to exclude evidence on technicalities if you need to, that's your job. Don't destroy careers and reputations as strategy.
JMO

 

[mickey2942]

You're welcome! Once the judge issued his orders on Franks, you can really see how they got to work trying to exclude the evidence on other grounds. I have no problem with the defense arguing every last angle based on case law. It's when they cross the line into accusations of wrongdoing on the part of the state without any evidence that bothers me. They've been doing that since the beginning and it's led to a lot of distrust and conspiracy theory. Try to exclude evidence on technicalities if you need to, that's your job. Don't destroy careers and reputations as strategy.
JMO

It worked very well in the OJ Simpson trial.

 

[wendy44]

SG starts talking about CAST and timing records about 24:40 and how they were able to pinpoint exactly where JD was that way. I'm sure they did the same with the roommates and could tell with a lot of accuracy beyond the features on their phones what their movements were.
JMO

 

[gremlin444]

But.....so would a slash from that knife across her face. Why punch, when the blade has every advantage?! One quick slice across the throat would keep her from screaming.

IMHO, the position KG was in would have made it very hard for him to actually have access to the front of her throat. She would have been in the process of sitting up, up against the corner of the walls--in that position your head is usually curled forward somewhat. Once he actually started attacking her, the natural instinct, IMHO, is to curl further inward to protect your vulnerable areas. Unless he was able to (and sorry for this image) grab her by the hair and pull her head back, he really wouldn't have had good access to her neck until after he had subdued her with some blows.

 

[Megnut]

I think BK fell behind on his actual Master's project because the lure of the real thing moved from fantasy to making it a reality.

Ramsland was no doubt passionate about extreme murder and BTK, and BK probably thought he could be BTK only better.

Buying the knife was, I won't say a turning point, but it was a committing point, setting up for murder, as yet to be determined.

How eerie... his questionnaire... how do you choose your victims?... he hadn't chosen his victim yet. He chose the weapon and systematically he began setting the stage for murder, reserving victim selection.

One night wonder how someone goes from wanting to serve as Marine, wanting to be on the right side of the law in LE, wanting to study the criminal mind to committing murder, but I think BK was a murderer at heart (or lack of heart). Had he been more successful at blending in -- as a Marine, in LE, as a scholar/instructor -- any one of those would merely have been a persona he could hide in plain sight behind. He was going to kill. And he was going to kill again.

That selfie is screeching to my ears. He wasn't horrified by what he'd done. He was pleased.

His family is lucky to be alive.

He has no boundaries.

JMO

 

[Sundog]

This was posted on this forum back in 2023 regarding the subject matter of a class taught by Ramsland at DeSales as reported by a former classmate of BK -

Kohberger's former classmates from Pleasant Valley, Northampton Community College and DeSales University tell us they're glued to the updates.

That includes Josh Ferraro, who is getting thousands of views on his videos.

"I was a criminal justice major at DeSales as well," Ferraro said in one of his videos. "I studied under Katherine Ramsland as well. We took a really interesting class there called psychological sleuthing where you basically enter the mind of a killer, and you have to decipher how that crime happened based off minute clues that Dr. Ramsland gives you."

If this is true, then this sounds like this course with Ramsland could be related to the survey he posted on Reddit that he undertook under the supervision of another faculty member at DeSales, Professor Michelle Bolger.

What's next in Kohberger case, new insight on his criminology education from DeSales classmate

Bryan Kohberger, the man from the Poconos accused of carrying out four grisly murders, was in court Thursday morning in Idaho.

www.wfmz.com

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Was he committing the crime that he would then research for his PhD thesis?

 

[Cool Cats]

Some can. It did in the Morphew case approx.(walls were in way) and in one case it showed a man who was wearing a Fitbit got up and went to the bathroom and back to bed. It's kinda freaky.

Yes you can be tracked if you download the app and sign up. But people were saying that smart phones automatically track every step you take without signing up and I have a new smart phone and it is not true for me. I definitely have to sign up to be tracked anywhere. I even called my cell phone company and confirmed they do not track me.

Getting off topic so this is my last post about it.

2 Cents