4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

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  • #401
RBBM

Huh, that’s a great point. Your comment actually makes me wonder whether BK *does* have any kind of visual limitations, a la poor peripheral vision, and—if so—could a visual impairment account for him having seemed (per DM’s account) to look right at DM but to continue towards the exit without reacting or breaking his stride? In other words, maybe he DID look directly at her, but did not actually SEE her.
Could be, plus we know what a terrible driver BK was in general. I've speculated he had to bring his phone because he could not easily get to/from the out of the way area where he disposed of the items associated with the crime.

JMO
 
  • #402
  • #403
SG said in that interview “ he got passed the security system” , if it exists, it might have been an inside on doors system, right?
A ring on a house with underage drinking and people possibly coming in and out with beer etc and record it would be uncool.

I say this because SG, (I am not taking this as facts MassGuy just using it as another possible explanation) said that , in so many words, moo, , that DM thought XK was drunk.. he partially states his take, college partying code- don’t call cops. DM could never have fathomed this mass murder, never- her mind went to passed out drunk XK.

So if he did , get passed, security system.. what does that mean, how?

This night had to be the perfect storm-luck
- back slider door unlocked to get in,
-security system- if real thing, disabled,
- bedroom door of target unlocked
- Super party night.. possibly drunk sleepers another

- if MM’s door was locked .. would he have left in total quiet to return another night because target was unavailable? Or broke door down killed her and anticipated killing others that were awakened?
Or would he have murdered whomever he could?

Things we will never know and why I think he was going to kill anything, an anyone.

he did not know the variables, he couldn’t know them, could he?
The roommates doors may have originally been closed but not locked. I think BK would have left them open on his way out, no need to close them after the deed was done.

JMO DM fleetingly seeing Xana on her bedroom floor and thinking she may be passed out drunk (feet to door head towards inside wall) is more logical to me verses her being murdered, plus not seeing blood from that vantage point.

DM, BF got home before Xana and Ethan so DM wouldn't have known the level of intoxication of Xana and Ethan. DM, BF, Kaylee and Maddie had all chatted up in Maddie's room for a bit before heading to their respective bedrooms.

MOO
 
  • #404
The roommates doors may have originally been closed but not locked. I think BK would have left them open on his way out, no need to close them after the deed was done.

JMO DM fleetingly seeing Xana on her bedroom floor and thinking she may be passed out drunk (feet to door head towards inside wall) is more logical to me verses her being murdered, plus not seeing blood from that vantage point.

DM, BF got home before Xana and Ethan so DM wouldn't have known the level of intoxication of Xana and Ethan. DM, BF, Kaylee and Maddie had all chatted up in Maddie's room for a bit before heading to their respective bedrooms.

MOO
If mm was the target, and if her door had been locked, what do you think he would have done? How could he have known it would be unlocked? He couldn’t Right?
 
  • #405
Could be, plus we know what a terrible driver BK was in general. I've speculated he had to bring his phone because he could not easily get to/from the out of the way area where he disposed of the items associated with the crime.

JMO
Slightly off topic but I remember probably a couple years ago now on one of these threads I was marveling that he hadn’t printed out and brought a map instead of bringing his phone (which I also think he brought chiefly for navigational purposes) and everyone on here immediately jumped in to inform me that no one his age would ever think to use a physical map- I’m literally younger than BK! I remember my parents writing out directions on notepads until 2010ish. Lol I do get their point though, it may not have occurred to a 20 something- esp someone like BK who, while seemingly somewhat intelligent, seems to lack basic common sense/street smarts- to bring one or perhaps would have been difficult for him to obtain one that was accurate and up to date. What a screw-up it was bringing that phone, though! He could have so easily left it at home playing YouTube by itself.
 
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  • #406
If mm was the target, and if her door had been locked, what do you think he would have done? How could he have known it would be unlocked? He couldn’t Right?
Good question BK wouldn't have known for sure. If locked (which I don't think it was just maybe shut) he might have known how to pick it from his CJ studies or jimmied it open without waking the girls up. I do not think a locked door at the point of no return was going to stop him personally.

All JMO.
 
  • #407
Interesting. Night vision, peripheral vision is usually the "rod" cells. And according to this article on "Visual Snow Syndrome", night vision is reduced.

I am actually diagnosed with this syndrome, but thankfully a comparatively mild form.

It makes depth perception at night incredibly difficult to judge, I cannot emphasize this enough. Even with additional lighting at night (like streetlights or say, a neon light decoration in the home) you are still not receiving enough visual clues to accurately judge depth and distance easily.

I could understand him bringing the phone because he wouldn’t have been able to see written directions or a map under that lighting, but he would able to see his phone screen (high contrast). It makes driving at night very challenging because you will drive past turns you’ve made a million times in the day.

And I can absolutely see him missing that Dylan now had her door cracked open - he would have no idea she could see him as he left, especially if her room was in darkness and she didn’t move as he walked past. (Light and motion are the context clues your brain tries to fill things in with when you have VSS. Without those, he wouldn’t have registered her at all, imo.)

I don’t think he saw her at all, and had no idea he’d been seen.
 
  • #408
Slightly off topic but I remember probably a couple years ago now on one of these threads I was marveling that he hadn’t printed out and brought a map instead of bringing his phone (which I also think he brought chiefly for navigational purposes) and everyone on here immediately jumped in to inform me that no one his age would ever think to use a physical map- I’m literally younger than BK! I remember my parents writing out directions on notepads until 2010ish. Lol I do get their point though, it may not have occurred to a 20 something- esp someone like BK who, while seemingly somewhat intelligent, seems to lack basic common sense/street smarts- to bring one or perhaps would have been difficult for him to obtain one that was accurate and up to date. What a screw-up it was bringing that phone, though! He could have so easily left it at home playing YouTube by itself.

Dating myself!

I have a stand alone handheld Garmin GPS unit that I used a few vehicles ago, probably when I bought a 2005 CRV. Still works. But at BK's age, would he know such a thing existed? It would have been so much better for him to use than to bring a cell. But better for Lady Justice that he didn't!
 
  • #409
Dating myself!

I have a stand alone handheld Garmin GPS unit that I used a few vehicles ago, probably when I bought a 2005 CRV. Still works. But at BK's age, would he know such a thing existed? It would have been so much better for him to use than to bring a cell. But better for Lady Justice that he didn't!
Definitely better!! @atomicsciencegal thanks for sharing your experience with VSS (although sorry you have to deal with it! :confused:)… really interesting and that would make a ton of sense as far as what compelled him to bring the phone and also miss DM that night.
 
  • #410
I am actually diagnosed with this syndrome, but thankfully a comparatively mild form.

It makes depth perception at night incredibly difficult to judge, I cannot emphasize this enough. Even with additional lighting at night (like streetlights or say, a neon light decoration in the home) you are still not receiving enough visual clues to accurately judge depth and distance easily.

I could understand him bringing the phone because he wouldn’t have been able to see written directions or a map under that lighting, but he would able to see his phone screen (high contrast). It makes driving at night very challenging because you will drive past turns you’ve made a million times in the day.

And I can absolutely see him missing that Dylan now had her door cracked open - he would have no idea she could see him as he left, especially if her room was in darkness and she didn’t move as he walked past. (Light and motion are the context clues your brain tries to fill things in with when you have VSS. Without those, he wouldn’t have registered her at all, imo.)

I don’t think he saw her at all, and had no idea he’d been seen.
I have to wonder how he was able to receive a driver’s licence with a visual disability. Explains a lot of his odd driving maneuvers in the dark hours. I don’t think he drove that great in the daytime either.

I really want to know if he is self diagnosed with VSS or if there is a medical diagnosis.

Thank you for providing this personal account of VSS. It answers several of my questions if indeed, he truly has the syndrome.
 
  • #411
I have to wonder how he was able to receive a driver’s licence with a visual disability. Explains a lot of his odd driving maneuvers in the dark hours. I don’t think he drove that great in the daytime either.

I really want to know if he is self diagnosed with VSS or if there is a medical diagnosis.

Thank you for providing this personal account of VSS. It answers several of my questions if indeed, he truly has the syndrome.
Ooh, interesting. I have my drivers licence, and it was never even brought up. It’s not enough to be considered a disability on its own that would prevent getting a licence. And of course, he could have self diagnosed, or just gotten his licence at 16 or whatever, and only ‘discovered’ about it after and just not passed the info along when he renewed his licence.

One other point I’d like to say about VSS is that it tends to come with other ‘excitable’ diagnoses around puberty, such as anxiety, depression, ADHD, etc. I have some of those myself.

And being in situations where your body is ‘excited’ (fear, anxiety, stress, super focus, killing college students) will absolutely make your VSS more intense. Absolutely. From a snow globe to a white out snow storm.

And on this point, I know we have talked about his uncomfortable creepy stare before. That overly intense focus. I actually think this is a result of his intense VSS. I find myself with the same very wide opened focused eye stare when I’m dealing with my VSS while say, night driving or focusing on a computer screen. You are literally trying to take in more visual information so your brain can sort things out.
 
  • #412
Ooh, interesting. I have my drivers licence, and it was never even brought up. It’s not enough to be considered a disability on its own that would prevent getting a licence. And of course, he could have self diagnosed, or just gotten his licence at 16 or whatever, and only ‘discovered’ about it after and just not passed the info along when he renewed his licence.

One other point I’d like to say about VSS is that it tends to come with other ‘excitable’ diagnoses around puberty, such as anxiety, depression, ADHD, etc. I have some of those myself.

And being in situations where your body is ‘excited’ (fear, anxiety, stress, super focus, killing college students) will absolutely make your VSS more intense. Absolutely. From a snow globe to a white out snow storm.

And on this point, I know we have talked about his uncomfortable creepy stare before. That overly intense focus. I actually think this is a result of his intense VSS. I find myself with the same very wide opened focused eye stare when I’m dealing with my VSS while say, night driving or focusing on a computer screen. You are literally trying to take in more visual information so your brain can sort things out.
Once again thank you for your insights. Very interesting. Could explain a lot.
 
  • #413
This night had to be the perfect storm-luck
- back slider door unlocked to get in,
-security system- if real thing, disabled,
- bedroom door of target unlocked
- Super party night.. possibly drunk sleepers another
The back slider doesn't even have to be unlocked. Locked just adds about 2 seconds to the timing.

 
  • #414
I am actually diagnosed with this syndrome, but thankfully a comparatively mild form.

It makes depth perception at night incredibly difficult to judge, I cannot emphasize this enough. Even with additional lighting at night (like streetlights or say, a neon light decoration in the home) you are still not receiving enough visual clues to accurately judge depth and distance easily.

I could understand him bringing the phone because he wouldn’t have been able to see written directions or a map under that lighting, but he would able to see his phone screen (high contrast). It makes driving at night very challenging because you will drive past turns you’ve made a million times in the day.

And I can absolutely see him missing that Dylan now had her door cracked open - he would have no idea she could see him as he left, especially if her room was in darkness and she didn’t move as he walked past. (Light and motion are the context clues your brain tries to fill things in with when you have VSS. Without those, he wouldn’t have registered her at all, imo.)

I don’t think he saw her at all, and had no idea he’d been seen.
Thank you! Sorry you have this ailment but thank you for sharing your experience -- very enlightening.

I have questions.

Do you think, having failed to see Dylan in real time, that he might have realized he did see something a few steps after? She did open her door, a sliver, but movement nonetheless.

Depth perception. I wonder if this explains his tailgating, oblivious to how close he is. Wonder if that's a boundary issue too. Doesn't perceive personal space.

The stare. We could put this to the test. In person, that stare is unnerving at best and creepy at worst. But online... doing graduate work, I wonder if it telegraphs differently. As focus, passion, intention, attention, which would translate positively. What teacher doesn't love a student who is fully dialed in?

Maps. So weird for him to turn his phone back on for four minutes. Probably lost. GH tried to recreate that drive and got lost, twice iirc.

But here's what's really interesting about that, to me. BK had no trouble locating 1122 King. Of course, we now know he'd been in the neighborhood plenty (AT no doubt wants to talk about cell towers and swaths in which BK could theoretically be anywhere while glossing over GPS data and CCTV which will undoubtedly destroy her theoretics), but that morning, he looped the neighborhood, didn't get lost on side streets or in residential cul de sacs. It would appear that he had his complete bearings for that night driving, aware always which structure was 1122.

Oh, AT, welp. All that emphasis on BK not stalking. So grateful she highlighted that for us. I look at what she argues against to know what's great evidence for the State. Maybe LE never uncovered a link between BK and one or more victims (or maybe they did), but stalking is really only criminal stalking if the victim is aware, making it a reportable offense. If BK was circling that house, staring in windows for months and at all hours of the night, that is creepy AF, worse than stalking. Predatory. There is no OK reason to do that, unless you're an actual cop, that's your beat and you have a protective detail of some sort for that house. BK was doing reconnaissance. And trial or aborted runs, as indicated by late night/early morning visits sans his phone.

BF and DM must be wrecked, thinking back on their last months prior to 11/13, wondering if BK had been in the house on other occasions, peering in windows, even armed with his knife but for reasons only he knows, didn't decide the time was nigh.

Sort of like how peeping toms kind of get shrugged off, as if it's almost harmless. But far from. You find out someone peeped in your window even one time, you never see a window the same way. You worry about prior exposure, you fear future exposure.

Imagine learning a mass murderer had been circling your bedroom 23 times. Apart from the horror that he murdered four of your friends fourteen feet away from you, the horror that he was lurking in your shadows for months would render me a quivering and nonfunctioning mess of my corner self. To realize you weren't safe when all along you thought you were, that'll unsettle anyone's foundation.

BK's damage is uncalculable.

JMO
 
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  • #415
Just for giggles, even if there were two people (I don’t think so), there seems to be enough evidence that BK was a murderer. So I don’t really see how the two person theory changes things for BK.

In some states, I live in one, if you are involved you are prosecuted the same as the killer.
I believe there is only one chip that BK could bargain with in terms of getting a sentence reduced; and that would be to disclose an accomplice. AT's expert is expected to state that one person could not do all this in the time frame established by the Prosecution....That won't happen until well into the trial and immediately following that MIGHT be the time to open negotiations over the DP. It all depends...

I don't believe there is an accomplice and I also believe that at the stage of the trial when that opinion is offered the Prosecution will have established BARD that BK caused the deaths. In one of the recent exchanges with Judge Hipler, AT indicated that the defense was pursuing an alternate suspect which of course they would be doing whatever their trial/penalty strategy...Its barely possible that second suspect was in fact an accomplice. Disclosing an accomplice at that stage of trial would lead directly to BK testifying....The only other circumstance I can think of, that would lead to that would involve a guilty plea after inculpatory evidence was delivered.

Frankly, AT has created more than just a trail of breadcrumbs in terms of alternate theories; she has dusted an entire landscape in flour. For all those instances, AT has avoided disclosing a definitive direction or context that would exculpate BK....Which of course she needs to continue to avoid, it allows the prosecution no time to investigate and refute any such theories. Better to funnel that right on the jury, without the scrutiny of discovery.

MOO throughout
 
  • #416
I can already hear AT in my ear at trial. She will ask sharp (shrill) questions that imply something, she may be successful in eliciting an 'I don't know' or an 'it's possible' or 'I don't remember' but nothing she says will put someone else in that house besides BK.

IMO the jurors will wonder where she's going with her lines of questioning and will be left with it, for wonder isn't doubt, and AT is going to lose more strikes than she hits.

Sure, BK's sheath could have gotten there at some other time, someone else could have put it there (while MM was asleep and if you believe in poltergeists) but inventing a 3rd party is absurd when BK had been zeroing in on that house for months, and during the peak crime window of 4:09 to 4:20, his Elantra disappeared from view exactly then.

Why he left the sheath is a puzzling curiosity but that he brought it there is the obvious explanation. Jurors aren't stupid.

She will make the most of cross examination but it'll deliver like a windbag.

JMO
 
  • #417
If BK spent any time off grid that night/morning, he wasn't star gazing. He might however have been grave digging. By moonlight. Burying his beloved kbar.

JMO
 
  • #418
If you recall last week, I mentioned that Dateline was working on another episode about this case. Last night they advertised it for the first time.

I asked someone in the know if the episode would have an “oh (you know what) moment,” like the knife revelation.

The answer was a resounding yes.

My educated guess (not being coy because I have no specifics), is that the vast majority will pertain to phone evidence (location, content).

The last episode had 3 big things if I recall (knife, being fired, and that unconfirmed stalking incident). This one will supposedly have a few times that.

Let’s just say we will not be disappointed, regardless of what it is.
 
  • #419
If AT had a substantial 3rd party defense, she wouldn't need to keep it a secret. And the truth is, IMO her 3rd party is also a secret from her, because she doesn't have one in mind either. Like the alibi.

If two people commit these murders, one was BK, but if two people commit these murders, what in hell's name took 11 minutes?

The evidence, even just what we know so far, is far more consistent with one assailant, outnumbered in two rooms but with victims who were outgunned. An accomplice would only have been in his way.

JMO
 
  • #420
Re the visual snow - IIRC there was a lot of discussion (both on the account's post and subsequent Reddit comments after the crime) that diet and lifestyle aids VSS massively. One commenter said that going vegan / eating healthier / regular exercise aided their VSS, and I believe this was also mentioned in BK's (alleged) forum post. This may not actually impact VSS at all, but it's interesting in light of BK's Strava and vegan diet. MOO
 
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