4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[Moonchime]

I still haven't been able to see the Dateline episode, I've been getting everything I can from MSM and YouTube. I know there's been talk for a while now, though, that Dylan thought she heard someone up/down the stairs. I wish I could find more on the timing of this. I think that might have been Kohberger himself, only Kohberger. It certainly seems possible. And I'm wondering what the proximity was in terms of the timing of her hearing that movement of someone on the stairs... to the time when she opened the door and spotted him clad in black.

I really, really wish I could get more on that stairs point. I just spent an hour searching and it's slim pickings on that particular point.

Also, while I can still edit, does anyone have any idea why the two surviving roommates were taking issue with XK being dressed in black? Referring to this:

DM to BF: "No one is answering."

DM to BF: "I'm really confused rn."

BF to DM: "Ya dude wtf"

BF to DM: "Xana was wearing all black"

DM to BF: "I'm freaking out rn"

Text messages reveal chilling moments during University of Idaho murders

Newly released text messages have provided a glimpse into the terrifying moments experienced by two surviving roommates during the 2022 murders of four Universi

idahonews.com

I think some of the texts are missing. Perhaps DM wrote that she'd seen somebody in the house who was wearing all black. That probably prompted BF to answer that Xana was wearing all black. In the early reports, police requested information from anyone who'd seen Xana and Ethan that night. Later, reports surfaced that BF had seen them both at a frat party. That would make sense as to how BF knew what Xana had been wearing. MOO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I personally haven’t heard that’s usual for them. I’d really have to jog my memory on the tons of cases I’ve followed over the years but just speaking to recent cases I’ve followed besides this case, some other recent high profile cases I’ve followed which Dateline aired episodes on before the case ever went to trial: Jennifer Dulos, Suzanne Morphew, Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow Daybell. There are probably more I’m forgetting but those are just from recent memory off the top of my head. They’ll also usually do a follow-up two hour episode on the cases they follow/report on after the trial is over (perhaps that’s what you’re thinking of/referring to?)

IMHOO

There was a Dateline episode on the Alex Murdaugh case that aired before the trial.

 

[Truth Detector]

I'm not sure there isn't more physical evidence. There may be evidence that we don't know about. I watched the George Wagner trial (Pike County massacre) after following it closely and there was so much evidence we had never heard about.

And here's the thing about the 12 minutes. It's a long time when you're stabbing three people sleeping in bed (all having had alcohol that night) and a fourth who is much smaller and unarmed. In my prime, I could run a mile and a half in 12 minutes easily. I can drive the 5 miles to work in 11. My team played an inning of softball in 12 minutes last week. And what we know is that DM saw one person leaving and there were 4 people dead. So it's possible.

The trial cannot get here quick enough.

There seems to be a mountain of evidence on the Prosecution's side...but what does the Defense have?

The Defense will probably concentrate on:
1) The innate inaccuracy of cell tower triangulation trying to infer that BK was only on a road that passed near 1122 King Street on his way out to star gazing all those times. This won't fly. Especially when they show that it stayed that close for many minutes.

2) DM eyewitness testimony that is shaky with very little detail and that she cannot say as a fact, that the man on trial is the same one she saw in the house. Me: Yeh, like he had a mask on.... duh.

3) No physical evidence (DNA, hair, personal items) of the 4 students that were slain found in BKs car or (apparently) at his apartment. How could so much blood be shed with none found in his car or apartment?

4) How could 4 people be stabbed to death in only 12 minutes (or whatever it was)? Again... the Defense is not really rebutting the evidence... just postulating doubt in the timeline created by the Prosecution.


What else does AT have to work with???

The trial cannot get here quick enough.

There seems to be a mountain of evidence on the Prosecution's side...but what does the Defense have?

The Defense will probably concentrate on:
1) The innate inaccuracy of cell tower triangulation trying to infer that BK was only on a road that passed near 1122 King Street on his way out to star gazing all those times. This won't fly. Especially when they show that it stayed that close for many minutes.

2) DM eyewitness testimony that is shaky with very little detail and that she cannot say as a fact, that the man on trial is the same one she saw in the house. Me: Yeh, like he had a mask on.... duh.

3) No physical evidence (DNA, hair, personal items) of the 4 students that were slain found in BKs car or (apparently) at his apartment. How could so much blood be shed with none found in his car or apartment?

4) How could 4 people be stabbed to death in only 12 minutes (or whatever it was)? Again... the Defense is not really rebutting the evidence... just postulating doubt in the timeline created by the Prosecution.


What else does AT have to work with???

What does the defense have? An indefensible client and case.

Hippler set a May 23 deadline for Kohberger's defense team to submit evidence supporting their theory of alternate suspects. He did so in the context of criticizing their theory and downplaying its admissibility.

"Provide me with whatever actual evidence you have that supports those allegations, rather than just allegations. And two, provide for me, how it is you believe that what you were offering is admissible? It seemed to me much of what you had put in there was fairly…potentially fairly objectionable in terms of…admissibility. So, I would like to see that." ~ Judge Hippler

The May 23 deadline is in preparation for a hearing on the matter scheduled for June 18.

 

[MassGuy]

I personally haven’t heard that’s usual for them. I’d really have to jog my memory on the tons of cases I’ve followed over the years but just speaking to recent cases I’ve followed besides this case, some other recent high profile cases I’ve followed which Dateline aired episodes on before the case ever went to trial: Jennifer Dulos, Suzanne Morphew, Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow Daybell. There are probably more I’m forgetting but those are just from recent memory off the top of my head. They’ll also usually do a follow-up two hour episode on the cases they follow/report on after the trial is over (perhaps that’s what you’re thinking of/referring to?)

IMHOO

Exactly. It's usually a one hour episode before trial, and a two hour episode following trial. The difference here is that I can't ever remember a case where they obtained sealed photographs and video, in a case that was under a gag order - this was brand new territory for them I think.

I have no doubt they knew what would happen as a result, and were willing to take that blowback.

 

[Moonchime]

Yes! Here’s another pic showing the hand print:

View attachment 586186

I wonder who made the print. The window is in the living room, next to the staircase leading down to the first floor. It might just belong to one of the partiers who refused to come down when the police responded to the noise complaint.

Dang!! That handprint is truly eerie.

 

[al66pine]

*** Post of the Day Award ***
********* goes to ************
*******@fcavanaugh**********

As to the May 23rd deadline for AT & Co. to submit admissible evidence to back up the alternative perpetrator,
wonder who she’s proferred as AP? I’m not on any SM, only follow cases on WS and occasionally check out some YouTube videos on cases I follow when time allows but find most to be disappointing with many grifters thinking they’re smarter than the LE task forces investigating the cases. There are some good, respectable ones but I find they are few and far between and not the norm. The vast majority and some of their followers/commenters are a cesspool of lack of logical, critical thinking, don’t understand evidence or how these cases and LE work, proferring misinformation and unfounded ridiculous conspiracy theories galore.

I certainly hope AT is not getting any tips/ideas from any of the SM platform and/or myriad YouTube grifters on the interwebs touting and spouting a bunch of conspiracies and manufactured non-evidence.
I mean take your pick conspiracy- the 2 surviving roommates, a deceased veteran BK, frat brothers, drug dealers/drug cartel hit, LE/prosecutors frame job. I find those who blame DM & BF to be the most disgusting, makes me so mad and sad for these two young ladies’ after all they’ve endured these past few years, and a bunch of moronic grifters blaming and shaming them all over the interwebs SMDH, imo those that spout and engage in blaming/shaming DM & BF are abominable and shameless creatures.

I don’t know if B Kohberger and the deceased veteran BK mentioned upthread knew each other but if they did and had any interactions with each other, I mean the guy is an easy target as he’s no longer here to be able to defend himself, AT might proffer the deceased veteran (RIP) as the alternative perp/killer who somehow got a hold of/stole BK’s knife sheath and wiped it clean of his own DNA but left BK’s DNA on the snap of the sheath and planted it/left it at the scene on purpose to frame BK?? Then how will she explain all the other damning evidence pointing directly to her client BK??? Are they gonna say the alt perp also stole BK’s car and phone and turned off BK’s phone during the murder window???

I mean, if you’re trying to frame someone for a horrific massacre, pretty sure if you had their phone with you, you’d leave it on during the murder window to further implicate them, and will they also claim the alt perp fits DM’s description of the intruder/killer??? And BK never reported his sheath, his car and/or phone stolen???? Or will she say it’s all just coincidence that BK just happened to be driving around at the exact time of the murders, with his phone off? why?? Did he always do that, I doubt it! And the alt perp drives a similar car to BK’s has a similar sheath with BK’s DNA on it and left it at the crime scene to frame BK?? No matter who AT proffers as alternative perpetrator, she still has to deal with all the glaring damning evidence against her client. Maybe she’s going to claim her client BK was there but wasn’t the murderer, was just the driver/along for the ride, or something?? Who knows but I’m over here SMDH over all this cluster&$@&ery.

I realize it’s premature and maybe the deceased veteran isn’t who AT & Co. have already or will be proferring as alternative suspect, let’s just say I wouldn’t be surprised at all if is the case though because the guy’s no longer around to defend himself and easy target to use to plant reasonable doubt, just my own speculation.

At any rate, we’ll know for sure next week if AT submits valid/admissable evidence per Judge’s order but I imagine if she does, the name and evidence will likely remained sealed until trial?? Especially since what happened with the recent Dateline episode leaks upsetting the Judge, I think the alternative suspect’s name and any evidence submitted by AT, if any, will remain sealed until possibly the next hearings in June, that is only IF, if, if, if Judge Hippler allows any of it in.

I guess we’ll see but won’t be holding my breath thinking this is anything more than last ditch effort by AT & Co. to throw more spaghetti at the wall since they’ve tried just about everything else and failed miserably.

Yes I know it’s their job to offer their client a vigorous defense but if they start accusing innocent and/or dead people of being responsible, that’s a bridge too far and I’m glad knowing Judge H runs a tight ship and ain’t gonna let baseless allegations without any valid evidence and admissibility argument to back them up, fly.

IMHOO

Specifically for this:
".... I certainly hope AT is not getting any tips/ideas from any of the SM platform and/or myriad YouTube grifters on the interwebs touting and spouting a bunch of conspiracies and manufactured non-evidence..." (bbm)

And for the general gist of the post.

@fcavanaugh TYVM.

 

[katydid23]

Well unless Brian has personal knowledge of Brent Kopeka. That's why Brian didn't talk about it before because he did not want to implicate himself as well.

I don't believe there is ANY connection between these 2. Bryan had no knowledge of Brent, no connection between them or their co-workers or friends.

The only reason AT would bring his name up is because he allegedly threatened to kill his roommates, although he didn't do so, and because he is deceased and cannot defend himself in court. IMO

 

[katydid23]

The main thing that would help AT is to have a client who didn’t do it.

IMO

My Dad was a long time defense attorney. He always said that the most stressful cases are when the defendant is truly innocent. Dad was so invested and engaged in those cases where a client could be falsely accused and then be incarcerated.

He obviously did his best to whole heartedly defend all of his clients, but if a guilty one gets incarcerated, that can be considered Justice. As long as he gave a rigorous defense he was satisfied with the outcomes.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

We know BK headed back to his apartment, called his father 3 times with lengthy conversations, showered and took his infamous 'thumbs up' bathroom selfie.

I then think he left Pullman to go back to Moscow to drive by the chaotic crime scene, which wasn't because the alarm had not been rung yet. I imagine BK was very PO'd and disappointed that his handy work hadn't been discovered yet.

MOO

According to court documents, BK was back in Moscow between 9:12 am and 9:21 am, then took the bathroom selfie at 10:31 am.

That thumbs up might indicate BK was actually glad LE wasn’t on the scene yet.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Just to throw out something else: maybe the contraband “dump” wasn’t so quick?

Certainly BK and dad made a couple stops on way back East. If BK’s insomnia behavior is normal, his dad wouldn’t have thought it strange for BK to leave the hotel at night to star gaze or drive around (and dump the knife and clothes somewhere far from the crime area). Easy to say, “Dad, don’t want to disturb your sleep, I’m going out to star gaze and unwind until I get tired.”

My sons keep misc gym bags and clutter in the back cargo areas of their cars so if we were packing up for a trip I wouldn’t think twice about something like that among their real travel luggage. A gym bag would be a perfect temporary cover for a commercial grade black trash bag containing contraband. Only a random alternative thought!

I like it!

BK has OCD, so I bet he was obsessed with hiding or getting rid of all incriminating evidence and compelled to check (over and over again) that he’d done so adequately. OCD is hell and it’s way worse when you’re stressed.

We know BK wore gloves and sorted his trash into individual plastic baggies and deposited it into his neighbor’s trash cans. (How many different trash cans, I’d like to know.)

So how do you think he’d deal with evidence from the murders?

He certainly cleaned his car well. And himself—he positively glowed after that shower he memorialized with his thumbs-up selfie.

But I imagine he also created a network of hiding places or disposal sites—the more complicated and convoluted the better—and moved things around when the urge struck.

Some pieces may very well be in Colorado or Indiana. Only BK knows.

Like Lady MacBeth and that damned spot, that damned evidence was driving BK even crazier than he was before the murders.

IMOO

 

[jepop]

I don't believe there is ANY connection between these 2. Bryan had no knowledge of Brent, no connection between them or their co-workers or friends.

The only reason AT would bring his name up is because he allegedly threatened to kill his roommates, although he didn't do so, and because he is deceased and cannot defend himself in court. IMO

Imo, there's no way the deceased Mr K's name will be entering this trial. It's all just speculation on sm. Moo

 

[jepop]

I assume that too, but then I think of cases where a damning piece of evidence comes out in trial to everyone’s surprise—like the Murdaugh Snapchat video.

Are all cases like the one we’re following here? That is, does the public always have access to court documents, even if most are just motions and orders to seal? I would think letting the public know that a defense attorney wants to suppress the alleged murder weapon might be prejudicial.

I wonder if some of AT’s efforts to suppress are sealed, and that’s why we don’t know about them.

Idk, INAL but just going on memory, all (?) of the defense's MTS were related to either testimonial evidence, warrants, the IGG investigation then tip, or the DNA/dna tests. I don't recall there being any MTS' directly asking for physical objects, for eg objects recovered in a search, to be suppressed as evidence per se. The defense for eg never argued for the sheathe itself to be suppressed, just the DNA evidence extracted from it. Jmo

So I guess my question is; on what grounds would the defense have been able to file a motion to suppress an actual K- bar knife, in the event (***incoming speculation following,) LE had recovered post BK arrest, at some point, a KBar knife, either from the PA residence or from physical searches of certain areas BK frequented once location data was fully analysed from his phone, or even from an anonymous public tip?

This is pure speculation, but if a kbar knife was recovered during the ongoing investigation into BK via one of the circumstances conjectured above (which would strongly link BK to it,), even if said knife produced no remnants of blood or physical evidence linking it to the victims or BK's DNA on the handle, would the defense have, without question, filed a MTS to have it excluded? AT did not file an MTS to have the physical elantra excluded for eg.or what was recovered from inside it, just the warrants that lead to the elantra being on LE's radar in the first place. Ditto for the sheathe. Jmo

I hope I'm making some sense here. Repeating INAL and there's every chance I am not making any sense and not understanding how MTS' work. I just thought I'd put this out there as this has been in the back of my mind since the last hearing and the reference to a physical knife being in evidence. Jmo

 

[Jw192]

I wish I could unsee the picture of the ka-bar knife extending beyond the width of the woman’s waist.

I remember gasping when I saw a Marine vet YouTuber slowly pick up his own Ka-bar from his desk and lay it in his large hands close to the camera. The knife was so much bigger than I ever imagined.

But seeing the photo of the woman and knife really brought it home.

That's why I shared it here Those of us who haven't ever seen one of these in person, only in pics and videos usually with a man holding to show scale, it's hard to actually grasp

<modsnip: Sorry, image had to be removed due to no approved source>

 

[katydid23]

I think some of the texts are missing. Perhaps DM wrote that she'd seen somebody in the house who was wearing all black.

I am pretty sure there was a quick call that is on the log, from DM to BF, in between those texts. .
I think DM left a voice mail, saying she'd just seen a tall person all in black walking past her doorway.

So BF may have replied w/that text about Xana wearing black.

That probably prompted BF to answer that Xana was wearing all black. In the early reports, police requested information from anyone who'd seen Xana and Ethan that night. Later, reports surfaced that BF had seen them both at a frat party. That would make sense as to how BF knew what Xana had been wearing. MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

But I heard that Dateline usually puts out a show after the case has been tried in court and not before it's been been to trial. I've heard that this is usually for them.

I've seen them do both.

 

[Karin1974]

I’m not steadfast on any theory, really, because I don’t know Bryan and I wasn’t there.

In my gut, though, I still feel it was more likely than not that Maddie was indeed his primary objective.

One, because we know he’d been to the Mad Greek where Maddie worked. Even if she didn’t wait on him, even if they never interacted, only he knows if glancing at her awoke some private obsession.

Two, because IMO and certainly I may be completely mistaken, but I think Maddie and Kaylee both were more flashy looking than Xana, God rest her. They both appeared to have dyed their hair blonde, because in their younger pictures they were both brunettes, IIRC.

Yet Kaylee had moved out, and her car was new, so I can’t be certain that he’d know Kaylee would be there.

Or maybe this is all wrong, because if he were a blonde obsessive, he could’ve hunted down and killed the surviving roommates who were also blonde, although I believe by then his energy was spent and he was in some sort of trance.

Or it may be as some of us thought at the start—the visibility and accessibility of the house.

It still just feels to me as though he was aiming for Maddie’s room. Unfortunately Kaylee was snuggled up in the same bed with her best friend; also unfortunately Xana was awake and combative, Ethan would be combative as well, so he killed the other three because they were in his way and became collateral damage.

Or not. Maybe killing one of them aroused his bloodlust and he killed everyone he had in his sight, and was unfocused and trying to escape by the time DM opened her door.

I don’t know and no one knows except BK. My hope is that he does take a plea in which he confesses and explains.

Just my rambling thoughts.

IMO - The owner of the Mad Greek apparently denied BK had ever been in there so we cannot possibly know the truth on this now, if ever. MOO

 

[Karin1974]

Investigators seem to know the path BK drove after the murders and prior to returning to Pullman. Do any of you remember the Sydney Loofe murders and how a detective used cell phone data to determine the exact route, speed, stops etc made by Aubrey Trail and Bailey Boswell while they were disposing of Sydney’s body parts. The technique he used guided detective to the actual spots within 40 ft of the garbage bags disposed of. This was a few years back- this method might lead them to the knife and other evidence if he buried them.

Investigators recognized for significant break in Sydney Loofe c

KLKNTV.com Channel 8 Eyewitness News, Lincoln Nebraska, Nebraska Weather

www.klkntv.com

IMO - I’m hoping his car had telematics perhaps, does anyone know if that model Elantra has those? I’m looking forward to hearing so much more evidence from the trial. MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO - I’m hoping his car had telematics perhaps, does anyone know if that model Elantra has those? I’m looking forward to hearing so much more evidence from the trial. MOO

We did discuss that many threads ago, and IIRC, his 2015 Model didn't have the upgraded telematics, but IDK what was standard.

Hah, did that help or did I just make it clear as mud?

MOO

 

[303gmf]

IMO - The owner of the Mad Greek apparently denied BK had ever been in there so we cannot possibly know the truth on this now, if ever. MOO

I’ve never believed any restaurant owner knows every human that walks in, ridiculous!

 

[girlhasnoname]

Imo, there's no way the deceased Mr K's name will be entering this trial. It's all just speculation on sm. Moo

Absolutely agree @jepop , a very sad situation too, he was a former armed forces vet who served in Afghanistan. He was said to have MH issues, like so many soldiers that came home from there. It affected so many soldiers that never received proper therapy

To see his name smeared all over SM is distressing and offensive to me, but the true vile internet cranks have no common decency and thrive on chaos and innuendo.

I don't believe he will be the 'possible alternative suspect(s)' AT was speaking of in April either, he had been known of since the beginning of the case in 2022.

JMO