4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[fcavanaugh]

How far back does the gag order go?

What if the leaks aren't leaks at all? But LE insiders talking to private investigator outsiders before gag orders were in place? What if Dateline vetted sources independently, old screenshots, named colleagues and party goers, sort of a parallel investigation. Maybe they've held it under advisement for a very long time... and aired it now, for impact...

Dateline isn't out to jeopardize justice nor capsize the State's case or anybody's careers. No doubt that episode was scrutinized by their own legal team so... I'm thinking it was built with information gathered long before the judge shut it down.

JMO

That’s a good point and I’ve also wondered about how far back the gag order goes and that perhaps Dateline’s had the info from LE sources, investigators etc. from before the gag order was put into place.

For the record, I’ve been a longtime follower of Dateline, think they are very reputable and love Keith Morrison and most of their other anchors too. I’ve always trusted their reporting think they have legit, solid sources that they vet very well and trust. I also 100% agree that Dateline are not out to jeopardize justice or capsize the state’s case or anyone’s careers. Far from it, imo they’re on the side of truth and justice and wouldn’t risk any of that.
They’re usually very careful with what information they release and when on the cases they follow and report on.

At any rate, we should hopefully know the scope of circumstances soon as the Judge has ordered a thorough investigation into it.

IMHOO

 

[Jw192]

I came across this in the wild and jesus wept. Like I know in measurements how big kbars are, seen many pictures of them, however I've never seen one in person... This picture made my hairs stand up. The fact you can just buy these willy nilly on Amazon alongside your toilet roll

They didn't stand a chance.

<modsnip: Image removed due to no approved source>

 

[LetsSolvIt]

SleuthieGoosie has reportedly sent several tips to Anne Taylor. There was a disagreement within a clique of Kohberger supporters, with one them disclosing that she had been in contact with the defense team. Sleuthie did the same thing with Richard Allen, as documented by the Murder Sheet podcast.

Who is SleuthieGoosie?

 

[SteveP]

I came across this in the wild and jesus wept. Like I know in measurements how big kbars are, seen many pictures of them, however I've never seen one in person... This picture made my hairs stand up. The fact you can just buy these willy nilly on Amazon alongside your toilet roll

They didn't stand a chance.

<modsnip: Image removed due to no approved source>


A stock photo of a KaBar knife on Amazon or KaBar's own website, even along with the technical specs, does not have nearly the impact that this picture does. Many people cannot visualize something they are unfamiliar with until they have something else that they are more familiar with to compare it to, to help put it in perspective. The KaBar knife was made for combat, and it has been used by branches of the military for over 80 years. It is a very efficient killing knife, and you are right, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan really didn't stand a chance, at all. JMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

As to the May 23rd deadline for AT & Co. to submit admissible evidence to back up the alternative perpetrator,
wonder who she’s proferred as AP? I’m not on any SM, only follow cases on WS and occasionally check out some YouTube videos on cases I follow when time allows but find most to be disappointing with many grifters thinking they’re smarter than the LE task forces investigating the cases. There are some good, respectable ones but I find they are few and far between and not the norm. The vast majority and some of their followers/commenters are a cesspool of lack of logical, critical thinking, don’t understand evidence or how these cases and LE work, proferring misinformation and unfounded ridiculous conspiracy theories galore.

I certainly hope AT is not getting any tips/ideas from any of the SM platform and/or myriad YouTube grifters on the interwebs touting and spouting a bunch of conspiracies and manufactured non-evidence.
I mean take your pick conspiracy- the 2 surviving roommates, a deceased veteran BK, frat brothers, drug dealers/drug cartel hit, LE/prosecutors frame job. I find those who blame DM & BF to be the most disgusting, makes me so mad and sad for these two young ladies’ after all they’ve endured these past few years, and a bunch of moronic grifters blaming and shaming them all over the interwebs SMDH, imo those that spout and engage in blaming/shaming DM & BF are abominable and shameless creatures.

I don’t know if B Kohberger and the deceased veteran BK mentioned upthread knew each other but if they did and had any interactions with each other, I mean the guy is an easy target as he’s no longer here to be able to defend himself, AT might proffer the deceased veteran (RIP) as the alternative perp/killer who somehow got a hold of/stole BK’s knife sheath and wiped it clean of his own DNA but left BK’s DNA on the snap of the sheath and planted it/left it at the scene on purpose to frame BK?? Then how will she explain all the other damning evidence pointing directly to her client BK??? Are they gonna say the alt perp also stole BK’s car and phone and turned off BK’s phone during the murder window???

I mean, if you’re trying to frame someone for a horrific massacre, pretty sure if you had their phone with you, you’d leave it on during the murder window to further implicate them, and will they also claim the alt perp fits DM’s description of the intruder/killer??? And BK never reported his sheath, his car and/or phone stolen???? Or will she say it’s all just coincidence that BK just happened to be driving around at the exact time of the murders, with his phone off? why?? Did he always do that, I doubt it! And the alt perp drives a similar car to BK’s has a similar sheath with BK’s DNA on it and left it at the crime scene to frame BK?? No matter who AT proffers as alternative perpetrator, she still has to deal with all the glaring damning evidence against her client. Maybe she’s going to claim her client BK was there but wasn’t the murderer, was just the driver/along for the ride, or something?? Who knows but I’m over here SMDH over all this cluster&$@&ery.

I realize it’s premature and maybe the deceased veteran isn’t who AT & Co. have already or will be proferring as alternative suspect, let’s just say I wouldn’t be surprised at all if is the case though because the guy’s no longer around to defend himself and easy target to use to plant reasonable doubt, just my own speculation.

At any rate, we’ll know for sure next week if AT submits valid/admissable evidence per Judge’s order but I imagine if she does, the name and evidence will likely remained sealed until trial?? Especially since what happened with the recent Dateline episode leaks upsetting the Judge, I think the alternative suspect’s name and any evidence submitted by AT, if any, will remain sealed until possibly the next hearings in June, that is only IF, if, if, if Judge Hippler allows any of it in.

I guess we’ll see but won’t be holding my breath thinking this is anything more than last ditch effort by AT & Co. to throw more spaghetti at the wall since they’ve tried just about everything else and failed miserably.

Yes I know it’s their job to offer their client a vigorous defense but if they start accusing innocent and/or dead people of being responsible, that’s a bridge too far and I’m glad knowing Judge H runs a tight ship and ain’t gonna let baseless allegations without any valid evidence and admissibility argument to back them up, fly.

IMHOO

I’m choosing to believe what @jepop said earlier (thank you, jepop!): Judge Hippler won’t allow the defense to accuse anyone that LE has already cleared, including Mr. Kopacka.

I guess I should also give AT some grace. She is only doing her job, trying to save her client’s life. That doesn’t mean she’d be willing to dishonor a vet or accuse anyone else who has already been cleared by LE.

She is a public defense attorney, after all, and it would be pretty rich for her to falsely accuse someone else when that is the very thing she is trying to establish that the prosecution is doing to her own client.

Anyway, I wish LE could reveal to the public why they’ve cleared an individual. That might stop social media speculation from being amplified until it becomes a full-fledged conspiracy theory.

Of course, LE can’t do that since it would violate the privacy of the cleared individual.

I have no idea what the solution is.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I’m picturing a law clerk for the defense poring over messages on some Proberger FB page looking for “tips”. Jmo.

Exactly. Or worse, inflaming the Probergers with additional innuendo.

I really hope AT is above this. Taking on death penalty cases as a public defender is a noble cause, IMO.

I just wish defense attorneys wouldn’t try to get a client off who has clearly committed a heinous act. Make the best deal for your client, plead for mercy, but don’t use underhanded tactics to help your client escape any accountability for a heinous act.

 

[gremlin444]

A stock photo of a KaBar knife on Amazon or KaBar's own website, even along with the technical specs, does not have nearly the impact that this picture does. Many people cannot visualize something they are unfamiliar with until they have something else that they are more familiar with to compare it to, to help put it in perspective. The KaBar knife was made for combat, and it has been used by branches of the military for over 80 years. It is a very efficient killing knife, and yes, Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan really didn't stand a chance, at all. JMO

I was in a military surplus shop when he was arrested. At that time, there had already been rumors about a Ka-bar being involved in the murders, so I took a look at the knife case to see if they had one.

They did have the USMC Ka-bar. It was the first time I had ever seen one. I remember putting my forearm over it on top of the case to get a sense of scale (I'm a 5'2 female), and I was horrified by its size. That image didn't leave my head for a long time.

 

[gremlin444]

I said the same further back. Great minds and all that...

The gag order was from Jan 3, 2023 limiting what prosecutors, the defense and other authorities can tell the media. Then it was expanded to apply to attorneys for witnesses, the victims and their families.

Gag order in University of Idaho murder case updated to include attorneys

The judge in the case of Idaho v. Bryan Kohberger for the alleged murders of four University of Idaho students has updated the gag order.

abc3340.com

So, that would mean that its pretty unlikely that LE had the complete info from his phone searches, photos stored, and info about the office mate before the gag order was put in place.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I wish I could unsee the picture of the ka-bar knife extending beyond the width of the woman’s waist.

I remember gasping when I saw a Marine vet YouTuber slowly pick up his own Ka-bar from his desk and lay it in his large hands close to the camera. The knife was so much bigger than I ever imagined.

But seeing the photo of the woman and knife really brought it home.

 

[gremlin444]

SleuthieGoosie has reportedly sent several tips to Anne Taylor. There was a disagreement within a clique of Kohberger supporters, with one them disclosing that she had been in contact with the defense team. Sleuthie did the same thing with Richard Allen, as documented by the Murder Sheet podcast.

Is there any accused criminal out there that SG actually thinks is guilty??

 

[PinkParis2052]

Was that said in the hearing or is there a link for that? I didn't hear it, thanks.

Defence suggestions that they have alternate suspects and tips that are unrelated to the police investigation is odd. Why would someone report a tip to a defence lawyer? ... because the police investigated and were able to dismiss the tip? Is the tip regarding alternate suspects from their client? Who is the tipster?

When following the evidence, how do they end up with their alternate suspect?

Regarding two suspects, what do eye-witnesses think about that? Even if the defence theory is that there were two people in the house that day, that does not mean that Kohberger did not murder the roommates.

SleuthieGoosie has reportedly sent several tips to Anne Taylor. There was a disagreement within a clique of Kohberger supporters, with one them disclosing that she had been in contact with the defense team. Sleuthie did the same thing with Richard Allen, as documented by the Murder Sheet podcast.

the information that Anne talked about was in the tips that were collected by LE and was turned over the the defense in discovery. This is from the April 2025 hearing when Anne was talking.

here's a link it's

 

[Arkay]

I came across this in the wild and jesus wept. Like I know in measurements how big kbars are, seen many pictures of them, however I've never seen one in person... This picture made my hairs stand up. The fact you can just buy these willy nilly on Amazon alongside your toilet roll

They didn't stand a chance.

<modsnip: Image removed due to no approved source>

A stock photo of a KaBar knife on Amazon or KaBar's own website, even along with the technical specs, does not have nearly the impact that this picture does. Many people cannot visualize something they are unfamiliar with until they have something else that they are more familiar with to compare it to, to help put it in perspective. The KaBar knife was made for combat, and it has been used by branches of the military for over 80 years. It is a very efficient killing knife, and you are right, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan really didn't stand a chance, at all. JMO

This picture truly has me gasping.

I am someone with no interest and therefore very little knowledge of weaponry.

But this picture——juxtaposed against the torso of a young woman—-you’re right, @SteveP, it certainly puts the size of the K-Bar into context.

@Jw192 thank you for finding this. For me it was very revelatory. Shockingly so.

JMO

 

[PinkParis2052]

That’s a good point and I’ve also wondered about how far back the gag order goes and that perhaps Dateline’s had the info from LE sources, investigators etc. from before the gag order was put into place.

For the record, I’ve been a longtime follower of Dateline, think they are very reputable and love Keith Morrison and most of their other anchors too. I’ve always trusted their reporting think they have legit, solid sources that they vet very well and trust. I also 100% agree that Dateline are not out to jeopardize justice or capsize the state’s case or anyone’s careers. Far from it, imo they’re on the side of truth and justice and wouldn’t risk any of that.
They’re usually very careful with what information they release and when on the cases they follow and report on.

At any rate, we should hopefully know the scope of circumstances soon as the Judge has ordered a thorough investigation into it.

IMHOO

But I heard that Dateline usually puts out a show after the case has been tried in court and not before it's been been to trial. I've heard that this is usually for them.

 

[PinkParis2052]

..

 

[fcavanaugh]

I’m choosing to believe what @jepop said earlier (thank you, jepop!): Judge Hippler won’t allow the defense to accuse anyone that LE has already cleared, including Mr. Kopacka.

I guess I should also give AT some grace. She is only doing her job, trying to save her client’s life. That doesn’t mean she’d be willing to dishonor a vet or accuse anyone else who has already been cleared by LE.

She is a public defense attorney, after all, and it would be pretty rich for her to falsely accuse someone else when that is the very thing she is trying to establish that the prosecution is doing to her own client.

Anyway, I wish LE could reveal to the public why they’ve cleared an individual. That might stop social media speculation from being amplified until it becomes a full-fledged conspiracy theory.

Of course, LE can’t do that since it would violate the privacy of the cleared individual.

I have no idea what the solution is.

Thank you, due to RL which is getting in the way a lot lately lol, I’m pages behind on the thread and been speed reading trying to get caught up, missed jepop’s post and don’t remember reading the deceased vet BK was already cleared by LE which good to know and thanks again for pointing that out.

I agree with most everything else you said, but I admittedly have grown a little harder on Defense Attorneys not always eager to give them too much grace after following alot of cases over the years, and a couple of recent ones where I’ve seen some imo not so, ahem, ethical D counsel pull out every dirty trick in the book to mislead the court (one in particular was able to bamboozle one of the Judge’s overseeing the case), sway public opinion and attempt to taint future jury pool. One case also had an inept, incompetent and some felt unethical Prosecutor too who ultimately threw the case due to incompetence, so I know things can happen/go bad or sideways for various and myriad reasons on both sides of the court so to speak.

Don’t want to derail the thread about those other cases but suffice to say imo, our justice system isn’t perfect but it’s the only one we have and both Defense Counsel and Prosecutors obviously have very important jobs and once a case goes to trial, barring a mistrial and/or Judge throwing out/dismissing the case, there will be one winner and one loser so to speak. And imo sometimes Justice isn’t even served, which is sad. I’d say most times it is/most juries get it right, but not always. Acquittal doesn’t always mean Innocent, just as NG verdict doesn’t necessarily mean Innocent, and Guilty verdict doesn’t always mean Guilty, unfortunately yes innocent people have been wrongfully convicted which is awful but imo it’s fairly rare and even rarer today thanks to advances in DNA and technology.

As far as AT yeah she’s doing her job trying to save her client’s life and you’re right, it would be rich for her to falsely accuse an innocent person the very thing she’s trying to establish the state has done to her client, I’m just glad it’s Judge Hippler overseeing the case now because he is calling everyone to task fairly and objectively whereas I think the previous Judge was a little more timid and let the D/AT get by a little too easy on some things. But with this Judge-Judge H, I think AT knows he’s not putting up with any shenanigans and per his order, she will either provide valid evidence of alternative perp by May 23rd or she won’t if she doesn’t have any.

She might file/provide what she thinks is valid evidence and worthy of admissibility and argue it as such but the Judge may not agree and rule it as inadmissible. So we wait…

IMHOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

So, that would mean that its pretty unlikely that LE had the complete info from his phone searches, photos stored, and info about the office mate before the gag order was put in place.

They arrested BK on Dec 30, 2022. But that left Dec 31, Jan 1 and 2 for that information to have been leaked or passed on before said gag order.It is totally possible they had all the information and that is why the gag order was put in place. We'll find out at some point.

 

[fcavanaugh]

But I heard that Dateline usually puts out a show after the case has been tried in court and not before it's been been to trial. I've heard that this is usually for them.

I personally haven’t heard that’s usual for them. I’d really have to jog my memory on the tons of cases I’ve followed over the years but just speaking to recent cases I’ve followed besides this case, some other recent high profile cases I’ve followed which Dateline aired episodes on before the case ever went to trial: Jennifer Dulos, Suzanne Morphew, Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow Daybell. There are probably more I’m forgetting but those are just from recent memory off the top of my head. They’ll also usually do a follow-up two hour episode on the cases they follow/report on after the trial is over (perhaps that’s what you’re thinking of/referring to?)

IMHOO

 

[PinkParis2052]

Exactly. Or worse, inflaming the Probergers with additional innuendo.

I really hope AT is above this. Taking on death penalty cases as a public defender is a noble cause, IMO.

I just wish defense attorneys wouldn’t try to get a client off who has clearly committed a heinous act. Make the best deal for your client, plead for mercy, but don’t use underhanded tactics to help your client escape any accountability for a heinous act.

Back when Bryan was arrested there was only like 13 death penalty certified public defenders in the Idaho that could be lead counsel and Anne was one of those 13 people. In addition she is the only that is assigned to the northern Idaho area. I heard that Elissa is very involved with the alternative suspects situations based on the April 2025 hearing. We'll see how this pays out.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I agree. The defense has filed motions to keep almost every piece of evidence the state has, out of the trial. There could be probably no single piece of evidence stronger than the actual murder weapon. If the state had THE knife used in the murders, it would have popped up in filings, to be sure. The knife in question is surely just a duplicate. JMO

I assume that too, but then I think of cases where a damning piece of evidence comes out in trial to everyone’s surprise—like the Murdaugh Snapchat video.

Are all cases like the one we’re following here? That is, does the public always have access to court documents, even if most are just motions and orders to seal? I would think letting the public know that a defense attorney wants to suppress the alleged murder weapon might be prejudicial.

I wonder if some of AT’s efforts to suppress are sealed, and that’s why we don’t know about them.

 

[Moonchime]

I heard somebody connected to the case a while back say that, we're not done yet. This was said after some shocking information about the case just came out, like that Bethany and Dylan saw the guy leave out the back door. So I think he said that in terms of, not done with shocking information coming out. So in my opinion, I believe there's going to be a lot more shocking information that will come out at trial.

I have some guesses on what that is. I'm not sure if I can write it here cuz it's just my own theory. But I kind of want to, because then I can go back after trial and say, hey I predicted that. Maybe I will later. I'll write my grand theory.

I've not caught up with this entire thread yet, but if you haven't shared your theory yet, please, please do. Thank you!