4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[jepop]

But she isn't supplying a valid argument IMO.

That they might find SOMETHING if they have just a little more time? And it would have to be something that mitigates the DP. Like finding 50 fewer IQ points. She's vague about any prosecutorial withholding, she's vague about what she needs additional time to do. Sweeping generalities about what one could theoretically do is esoteric. Fascinating for dinner party debate but not grounds for a continuance or every DP would have a sliding trial date.

She cast too wide a net. If she delineated a specific direction she needed more time to develop, I don't think he would easily deny her that. But this?

All wind, no sail.

JMO

Agree. I firmly believe Hippler knows the law, knows the precedents and knows what to do. On identifiable, material issues to justify a continuance, my lay person's view is that there isn't much there in AT's Motion. It seems to be a combination of obfuscation, vague nods to speculative appellate issues, with a touch of 'poor me' manipulation for good measure.

For sure, I think we've seen it. You can't gaslight and manipulate Hippler. Jmo

 

[Megnut]

Agree. I firmly believe Hippler knows the law, knows the precedents and knows what to do. On identifiable, material issues to justify a continuance, my lay person's view is that there isn't much there in AT's Motion. It seems to be a combination of obfuscation, vague nods to speculative appellate issues, with a touch of 'poor me' manipulation for good measure.

For sure, I think we've seen it. You can't gaslight and manipulate Hippler. Jmo

He'll take the theatre out of her atrics.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Okay with the prosecution presenting an argument that isn't true in order to secure a conviction?

no one knows what order was 'true' except the killer. All the prosecution is doing is setting forth their theory, based upon their interpretation of the evidence.

If they believe that the 'MM as target' theory is most logical and believable then they should go with it. They will likely even say at some point, we can't know that for sure unless he takes the stand and says so.

 

[mickey2942]

He'll take the theatre out of her atrics.

JMO

It reminds me a bit of Chad Daybell's attorney, John Pryor, he tried, but towards the end of the trial, you could tell, he was done with the case, and his client. There wasn't much to work with, that didn't make his client even halfway likeable.

If we think of the trial as "theater", then the accused, "villian", has to be magically transformed to an innocent bystander, caught up in a trial. That was the "magic" of Jose Baez, with Casey Anthony. She dressed and acted very responsible and likeable.

There was no way to make Chad Daybell attractive or likeable. And BK, it is laughable. He is scary, just creepy. AT knows this is a dumpster fire of a case already.

 

[katydid23]

So anyway I will take a chance and say that I was considering, and that since BK had an interest in technology, I was wondering if he used some technology to prevent the students from calling or texting out. One such item would be a jammer. Jammers can be bought for less than $200 and you can order them online from countries such as China. See screenshot for link.

I guess police would know whether he used one or not. Because if he used one, they wouldn't be able to see any movements of the phone of the people there.

But I would think it would make sense that he would use this, to ensure his own safety while he committed these crimes.

I know if I mention this to people they get very upset about it. It's interesting we can speculate about a huge lethal knife, and everyone's okay with that, but if I talk about this other type of equipment, it doesn't sit well with people.

I've had that same thought---HOWEVER there is no evidence that any of them tried to call 911 while he was there. And I think maybe Xana was scrolling TikTok while he was there, IIRC. Maybe not, IDK

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The prosecution cannot knowingly present a false argument to the jury under any circumstances. The end does not justify the means. The prosecution's responsibility is to present the facts of the case based on their legal understanding of the evidence, nothing more, nothing less.

Of course the prosecution "cannot knowingly present a false argument to the jury." But the prosecution will take the evidence it has and present a coherent story based on that evidence to the jury. In order to convict anyone, the prosecution has to explain their understanding of what happened. It doesn't matter why BK (in this case) went to the third floor seemingly first or what he may have done that we don't know about (e.g., trying another door). We know he went to the 3rd floor and killed two people.

 

[jepop]

Sooo.....on a scale from 1-10, how angry do you think Hippler is right now?

My guess is a 10 for a mixture of exasperation and anger

 

[realanastasia]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/052025+Defendants+Motion+to+Continue.pdf

My eyebrows shot up when I read that the defense is still accusing the state of withholding information AND when I saw the defense claim that this request for a continuance is the direct result of the Court’s failure to force the State to disclose its entire case to the defense before the trial even starts. Holy shamelessness, Batman!

From p. 28 (bolding by me):
IV. Counsel Requires Additional Time to Fulfill the Minimum Requirements Described Above.
A. Counsel Cannot Review All of the Relevant Discovery and Complete the Necessary Investigations Prior to Trial.
As counsel explained in recent filings and in oral argument—which are hereby incorporated in full for brevity’s sake—it is impossible for the defense team to review the necessary and relevant discovery in a manner that allows the evidence to be integrated into the comprehensive defense case, to pursue all necessary investigations arising from review of the discovery, including into alternative perpetrators, and to address the myriad issues that continue to arise from the State’s failure to fully abide by this Court’s discovery and expert disclosure deadlines. Counsel requested that this Court alleviate these problems by precluding the death penalty as a possibility, freeing up counsel’s time to focus only on the merits phase preparation and removing the heightened standard of reliability that governs death penalty proceedings. Because the Court denied that motion, counsel is obligated to seek a continuance to continue reviewing discovery, complete investigations relating to the merits phase—including into alternative perpetrators—and complete investigations into “red flags” that have arisen in the life history investigation.

 

[katydid23]

Yes I just found that myself. Amazing. I missed that the first time around. Well I don't believe any of that. You do all realize that police are allowed to lie to us as much as they want to. The only place they're not allowed to lie, is in legal documents.

<modsnip - cleared from this case>, and lost his life, and Brian and his father happened to be listening to that on the radio, the police randomly stopped Brian koburger for a drug sweep on December 15, even though police told them it was because he was following too closely. And the FBI had nothing to do with it because they didn't know who he was yet on December 15th. My my my. Of course if you listen to some pro burgers they say that they did know at that point. Actually it's in the media, that they knew by December 19th, here is some info..

"According to some sources, the FBI took over the IGG analysis and presented Kohberger's name to Idaho investigators on December 19, 2022, which was nine days after they took over testing. This information was used to identify a potential suspect, leading to further investigation and ultimately, Kohberger's arrest."

New details in Bryan Kohberger case: Judge unseals transcripts from hearing in Idaho college murders

Here are some of the new details revealed from the transcript of the closed-door hearing

abc7.com

So if the FBI presented the name of coburger to the Idaho police on the 19th, and they had to do a couple rounds of DNA tests before that, and that takes at least a few days, in some cases they say DNA tests could take weeks, they must have been working on the DNA test and his name before the 15th. So I find it hard to believe the FBI did not know who Brian coburger was or have him as a suspect on the 15th.

Ok, Let's just say, for fun, that somehow they had his name 5 days earlier. [Even though it seems unlikely, imo]

But let's say they did have him as a possible suspect---then what? How specifically did those 2 traffic stops help the investigation in any way?

They didn't search the vehicle, or question them about the Moscow murders,or try to get his DNA off something, or use the stops to progress the case in any way, imo.

I know for a fact, 100%, that those kinds of preventive drug trafficking stops are standard, random and happen all the time.

And the way the officers acted made it seem like it was just a random, standard fishing expedition. They didn't smell any weed, which is often present in spite of any attempts to prevent it, and Mr Kohberger did not fit the behaviour or profile of a drug mule according to their experience.

So they were allowed to go on their way. If they really thought he was a serial killer suspect they would not have just waved the on so quickly, imo.

 

[jepop]

Ok, Let's just say, for fun, that somehow they had his name 5 days earlier. [Even though it seems unlikely, imo]

But let's say they did have him as a possible suspect---then what? How specifically did those 2 traffic stops help the investigation in any way?

They didn't search the vehicle, or question them, or use the stops to progress the case in any way, imo.

I know for a fact, 100%, that those kinds of stops are standard, random and happen all the time.

And the way the officers acted made it seem like it was just a random, standard fishing expedition. They didn't smell any weed, which is often present in spite of any attempts to prevent it, and Mr Kohberger did not fit the behaviour or profile of a drug mule according to their experience.

So they were allowed to go on their way. If they really thought he was a serial killer suspect they would not have just waved the on so quickly, imo.

Yes, the traffic stops on the way to PA with his dad happened before the FBI had identified BK via IGG. Imo they were just normal stops. BK was pulled over for tail gating and/or following too closely. End of imo, nothing else to see here.

 

[mickey2942]

Of course, AT has to run with something, and her new defense is that Idaho et al, is hiding evidence that "SBEDI". Same as the defense for the OJ trial, is that corruption is what made police charge OJ. They were too lazy to find the real killer. Why bother, when there is a black guy right here to pin it on...

AT won't get far with her snarky innuendos. BK isn't black. And Idaho isn't California.

 

[vls12345]

How do we know it wasn't? Those things are ridiculously easy to bypass, there have been videos posted to the thread in the past.

MOO

Re: the sliding door.

I wonder if his apartment had a slider onto a balcony. If so, did he practice popping his own slider out so that he could be quick & smooth doing so, if needed?

(P.S. @iamshadow, I'm not specifically calling out your post but quoting it because you are discussing how easy it is to bypass a sliding door.)

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Do you suppose she just has things like that sitting around and "fill in the blank"? I worked for a Divorce attorney and we had a lot of those. I don' t know how criminal law rules work, though.

IANAL, but I would think even defense attorneys have templates for motions. Can you imagine having to write them de novo each time?

Of course to me, it seems like she’s just submitting the same sets of motions over and over again, hoping Hippler won’t notice, lol.

Anyway, the bulk of the motion to continue seems like it was actually crafted well ahead of time. She may have planned to file it earlier so Hippler could address it during court, but she had to wait so she could add her response to the Dateline episode.

 

[Betty P]

Unfortunately, her version of the case is a big fat lie, IMO, and her goal is to release a man who committed unconscionable acts and is likely to continue doing so if released.

I agree. Like most defense attorneys in these types of cases, she make claims that are false or exaggerated. It’s part of their job. If the prosecution is adequate, most jurors realize that.

There have been occasions when it seemed the defense attorney truly believed an obviously guilty defendant should be set free. JMO, it doesn’t seem to be the case for this one.

As for trying these as DP cases, it’s always a difficult and lengthy process with many safeguards built in to ensure the state doesn’t execute an innocent person. DP charges can help persuade a guilty killer to make a deal.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Just now beginning to catch up on the events of today, but she's been doing a good job. She's been filing motions, making arguments, etc. that all the other defense attorneys do these days in these high profile, horrific cases where the evidence is solid and investigations were highly professional and thorough.

She's getting as much of her version of the case in front of the public as possible. She's revealing as much of the evidence as possible, against the gag order. She's inoculating the media, public and potential jury pool against the most damaging evidence and arguments the state will be bringing forward against her client. She's proposaing every conspiracy theory and SODDI argument she can come up with. Planting the idea of a mistrial based on "ineffective counsel" is not a stretch, JMO, though it may be a new one. Pretty creative.

“Planting the idea of a mistrial based on "ineffective counsel" is not a stretch, JMO, though it may be a new one. Pretty creative.”

IANAL, but I would hope there are ramifications for providing ineffective counsel. I just checked Google AI and it states this:

“Ineffective assistance of counsel can lead to a number of consequences, including disciplinary action by the bar association, potential legal malpractice claims, and even court-imposed sanction.”

Otherwise, every defense attorney would be motivated to act as incompetently as possible so they could purposely cause a mistrial!

 

[snooptroop88]

I just "streetviewed" through the area of the (now-demolished) King Road house. And I went quite a ways in many directions, Ridge, Taylor Ave., Blake Ave., Deakin Pl., S Hill Terrace, Walenta, Baker, etc, etc. I used the streetview in conjunction with YouTubers' views of the back of the King Rd house. In my streetviewing, jmo there was no other house I spotted that was as vulnerable as this house. Those great big windows, the slider out towards woods and two stories up (in back) built right into the natural incline. And on the other side of that little area of woods behind the house, there's a rustic and secluded (and dark) parking area., which I doubt had designated parking spots. And that parking area is more or less overlooking the King Road house slider area entrance and the floor above. I mean, someone could look right into their house. BK claims to be a stargazer, did he have astronomical binoculars, by any chance? .

We know at the very least the pool party drew him out to Moscow. (From what I saw online, the Grove is known for graduate housing for University of Idaho students.) And then restaurants, bar scene, curiosity, more hiking options-- kept BK out there? Also, the Palouse (aside from the small city Palouse) is a geographic region that encompasses both Pullman and Moscow. WSU lists a particular domestic violence organization located in the Palouse, The University of Idaho lists that same organization as an internship option. Was BK maybe enrolled in a course, or doing any kind of hands-on work that encompassed the broader Palouse region?

Still reeling that BK was searching Bundy. Someone way, way back on here noted Bundy with Wawawai Park. And like Bundy, BK's getting groupies, too. But I mean, so's Judge Hippler:

Maybe send the good Judge a petition requesting he becomes a Mormon or similar faith where multiple wives are all the rage.

With the staggering amount of competition already out there, I know I don't stand a chance..

(sigh)

 

[girlhasnoname]

“Planting the idea of a mistrial based on "ineffective counsel" is not a stretch, JMO, though it may be a new one. Pretty creative.”

IANAL, but I would hope there are ramifications for providing ineffective counsel. I just checked Google AI and it states this:

“Ineffective assistance of counsel can lead to a number of consequences, including disciplinary action by the bar association, potential legal malpractice claims, and even court-imposed sanction.”

Otherwise, every defense attorney would be motivated to act as incompetently as possible so they could purposely cause a mistrial!

I don't think there's a snowball's chance in you know where that AT & Co. would be found as ineffective council. She's gone above and beyond already IMO.

Just more nonsense she's throwing out there in support of trying to get a Continuance.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

My eyebrows shot up when I read that the defense is still accusing the state of withholding information AND when I saw the defense claim that this request for a continuance is the direct result of the Court’s failure to force the State to disclose its entire case to the defense before the trial even starts. Holy shamelessness, Batman!

From p. 28 (bolding by me):
IV. Counsel Requires Additional Time to Fulfill the Minimum Requirements Described Above.
A. Counsel Cannot Review All of the Relevant Discovery and Complete the Necessary Investigations Prior to Trial.
As counsel explained in recent filings and in oral argument—which are hereby incorporated in full for brevity’s sake—it is impossible for the defense team to review the necessary and relevant discovery in a manner that allows the evidence to be integrated into the comprehensive defense case, to pursue all necessary investigations arising from review of the discovery, including into alternative perpetrators, and to address the myriad issues that continue to arise from the State’s failure to fully abide by this Court’s discovery and expert disclosure deadlines. Counsel requested that this Court alleviate these problems by precluding the death penalty as a possibility, freeing up counsel’s time to focus only on the merits phase preparation and removing the heightened standard of reliability that governs death penalty proceedings. Because the Court denied that motion, counsel is obligated to seek a continuance to continue reviewing discovery, complete investigations relating to the merits phase—including into alternative perpetrators—and complete investigations into “red flags” that have arisen in the life history investigation.

AT is going to Fudge Around and Find Out making continued baseless accusations against the State (and even the Judge in my opinion) as in this latest Motion. I posted a link to Idaho 8.2 Rules of Professional Conduct several pages back.

She is walking a very fine line there IMO.

 

[jepop]

AT is going to Fudge Around and Find Out making continued baseless accusations against the State (and even the Judge in my opinion) as in this latest Motion. I posted a link to Idaho 8.2 Rules of Professional Conduct several pages back.

She is walking a very fine line there IMO.

Wow. There are quite a few accusations hidden in there. I think Hippler is going to tear her apart figuratively and the trial will go ahead. This is ridiculous stuff. Jmo

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Exactly.

AT is loud but it's a fallacy. Not everyone watched Dateline. Not everyone reads Patterson. AT is purposefully conflating this, as if the media hand delivered this to the jurors during deliberation or somesuch.

Voir dire is voir dire for a reason. To weed out true crime afficionados, prime time TV watchers, mystery readers.

I hope Judge Hippler leans on his heels here.

Launching the investigation is proper but there's nothing to show it prevents BK from getting a fair trial. It only indicates the importance of jury selection.

JMO

I read Appelman's book after watching Dateline. Aside from visuals (which are of course powerful) and some extensions and explanations of what Appelman had, there wasn't all that much that was new in Dateline. Appelman had a lot of the same stuff. Dateline pushed it. That's my view. JMO. The impact is TV and visuals. These kind of shows didn't impact the Murdaugh or Vallow/Daybell trials, so I'm hoping they won't impact this one.