4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #87

[schooling]

I completely agree. No way was it planted. Logically, the ways his DNA could have gotten on the sheath is
1. IF he came in contact with the sheath sometime and somewhere before the murders (not during the murders as there are apparently no other samples of his DNA at the scene, so it likely wouldn't have happened at 1122 King Rd - it would have had to happen before he put on the gloves he must have worn to prevent other touch DNA in the house, IF he is guilty.)
2. OR, if he is innocent, the real murderer came in contact with BK at some point and unknowingly transferred BK's DNA to the sheath at some point or even unknowingly came into contact with BK's DNA on some object such as exercise equipment or a table or something and then handled the sheath unknowingly transferring BK's DNA to the sheath.
3. OR, the ONLY other possibility I can think of is a DNA lab mistake as described by Dr. Leah Larkin. So I really feel this line of inquiry needs to be explored. I don't want it to turn into a cause for appeal if he is tried and found guilty because appeals are expensive. I'd rather this entire question be explored now BEFORE trial to put it to rest once and for all.

Anyone have any other ideas of how his DNA got on the sheath outside of these ideas?

All JMO.

the way you present these theories you’d think it was a 33/33/33 split between them.

But they are far from equal

When all other publicly known evidence is considered scenarios 2 and 3 start sounding silly and it’s more like 98/1/1.

Giving those a 1 is being generous.

 

[Chloegirl]

the way you present these theories you’d think it was a 33/33/33 split between them.

But they are far from equal

When all other publicly known evidence is considered scenarios 2 and 3 start sounding silly and it’s more like 98/1/1.

Giving those a 1 is being generous.

Not to mention, some of us actually have to live here. The town is filling with students as the weather starts to begin its shift at least towards autumn. We would like to believe that they have the right man. JMOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

I went down the rabbit hole of VVS Studies and learned that the area people who had were most affected by was their DRIVING, especially at night. Sound familiar doesn't it?

I think BK obviously knew the way to the house having been by their many times before so he could have turned off his phone or put it on airplane mode no problem.

I think he took back roads (PCA) afterwards to dispose of evidence and he would have needed to turn it on because it was unfamiliar territory and he couldn't chance getting lost.

MOO

He definitely wasn't suffering imo since he regularly drove to the area of their home "on at least 12 prior occasions all of which were late at night except one." So for this and the reasons stated the other day, I don't see this working for them as a potential defense. Not to mention they have yet to even raise it themselves lol.

jmo

 

[Sundog]

He definitely wasn't suffering imo since he regularly drove to the area of their home "on at least 12 prior occasions all of which were late at night except one." So for this and the reasons stated the other day, I don't see this working for them as a potential defense. Not to mention they have yet to even raise it themselves lol.

jmo

They may bring it up during the sentencing phase if BK is found guilty, as a mitigating factor against the death penalty.

 

[Balthazar]

the way you present these theories you’d think it was a 33/33/33 split between them.

But they are far from equal

When all other publicly known evidence is considered scenarios 2 and 3 start sounding silly and it’s more like 98/1/1.

Giving those a 1 is being generous.

Please explain why. I don't think the theories are equal...BUT...I also don't have a favorite. Can you elaborate why you think the last two scenarios are only 1/1? What evidence tells you that?

 

[Balthazar]

Not to mention, some of us actually have to live here. The town is filling with students as the weather starts to begin its shift at least towards autumn. We would like to believe that they have the right man. JMOO

I totally understand why you would like to believe they have the right man. BUT, to be honest, ...given what information is available, which is admittedly not much, I can't tell if they have the right man yet. I really hope they do. I want LE to be right...UNLESS...they're not. So, I'm still waiting on more information in this case. I would say, having lived a case that was similar enough to send tsunami type shockwaves throughout my city; lock your doors, close and lock your windows. Close window coverings at night. Have a home security system with an alarm and cameras. Make sure your phone is charged and with you at night. Have a defense plan. I have done the same here due to a similar crime. Unfortunately, things will not be the same in Moscow ever again. That is the effect these types of crimes have on where we live. I really hope for a future where this doesn't happen. But, for now, it is what it is.

 

[maskedwoman]

I completely agree. No way was it planted. Logically, the ways his DNA could have gotten on the sheath is
1. IF he came in contact with the sheath sometime and somewhere before the murders (not during the murders as there are apparently no other samples of his DNA at the scene, so it likely wouldn't have happened at 1122 King Rd - it would have had to happen before he put on the gloves he must have worn to prevent other touch DNA in the house, IF he is guilty.)
2. OR, if he is innocent, the real murderer came in contact with BK at some point and unknowingly transferred BK's DNA to the sheath at some point or even unknowingly came into contact with BK's DNA on some object such as exercise equipment or a table or something and then handled the sheath unknowingly transferring BK's DNA to the sheath.
3. OR, the ONLY other possibility I can think of is a DNA lab mistake as described by Dr. Leah Larkin. So I really feel this line of inquiry needs to be explored. I don't want it to turn into a cause for appeal if he is tried and found guilty because appeals are expensive. I'd rather this entire question be explored now BEFORE trial to put it to rest once and for all.

Anyone have any other ideas of how his DNA got on the sheath outside of these ideas?

All JMO.

I understand your thought process. Option 1, although highly unlikely, seems to me the only possible explanation other than BK being the murderer.

I find option 3 hard to swallow because it would mean that the lab made a mistake processing the DNA in such a way that it mistakenly points to one man on the entire planet that also just happens to have been on tape circling the neighborhood the night at the time the murders occurred. I'm sorry, but I can't see any jury buying that.

Option 2 seems unlikely to the point of impossible. I don't see how the "real" murderer is going to accidentally come into physical contact with this loner's invisible DNA, and either accidentally or deliberately transfer it to a heavy touch point area of the sheath while also leaving none of their own behind.

I just feel both 2 and 3 puts us into BK being the unluckiest guy in the universe territory. Being the unluckiest guy on the planet just wouldn't cover those possibilities, IMO.

The only other option I could think of is a variant of option 3, where there is an evidence handling error by someone in the chain of custody, but that raises the question of how/why that person could have encountered BK's DNA in the first place.

 

[Ladybythesea]

Just to add a little levity to this topic, I misread this my first time through and assigned regional the geographic meaning. I was amazed that a brain chemistry issue could be traced to certain parts of the country. Then the rest of my brain kicked in. LOL

My brain did the same thing at first! Then coffee woke the rest of my brain cells.

 

[Boxer]

I understand your thought process. Option 1, although highly unlikely, seems to me the only possible explanation other than BK being the murderer.

I find option 3 hard to swallow because it would mean that the lab made a mistake processing the DNA in such a way that it mistakenly points to one man on the entire planet that also just happens to have been on tape circling the neighborhood the night at the time the murders occurred. I'm sorry, but I can't see any jury buying that.

Option 2 seems unlikely to the point of impossible. I don't see how the "real" murderer is going to accidentally come into physical contact with this loner's invisible DNA, and either accidentally or deliberately transfer it to a heavy touch point area of the sheath while also leaving none of their own behind.

I just feel both 2 and 3 puts us into BK being the unluckiest guy in the universe territory. Being the unluckiest guy on the planet just wouldn't cover those possibilities, IMO.

The only other option I could think of is a variant of option 3, where there is an evidence handling error by someone in the chain of custody, but that raises the question of how/why that person could have encountered BK's DNA in the first place.

MOO there is no error in the DNA.

The defense is using the pretext there is to can opener the way the geneology was done open, hoping to find error in the process, such as investigators used a database that is not public domain at some point, and then demand the DNA, which is a valid match to BK be suppressed.

If jury doubts because the DNA was not able to be presented BK MOO would be getting off on a technicaliity.

The error rate that Leah Larkin generally talked about doesn't look to even apply here, but her smoke is indeed suffusing the information deprived gag order atmosphere.

 

[10ofRods]

yeah.
Just 1.

He cleaned the sheath prior to his alleged trip to the house.
He omitted the snap, easy mistake.
Result- arrest.

Especially since the snap mechanism involves a very small groove, such that one would likely need a specialized narrow swab to "clean" it. DNA is not easily destroyed. Bleach would have been obvious, as it would have bleached the leather.

At any rate, his DNA was there, within the snap mechanism. And no one else's DNA was there.

 

[10ofRods]

He definitely wasn't suffering imo since he regularly drove to the area of their home "on at least 12 prior occasions all of which were late at night except one." So for this and the reasons stated the other day, I don't see this working for them as a potential defense. Not to mention they have yet to even raise it themselves lol.

jmo

My belief is that he started early to try and overcome each and every one of the symptoms of his condition. He did a little project on hidden disabilities at community college. He learned to drive. He tried illicit coping mechanisms but then took the road of personal discipline (changing his exercise and eating habits thoroughly).

He became a night runner first (I believe that was in late high school/early college years - perhaps continued for quite some time, we don't know). He became a night driver. The thing that limits VSS sufferers from night driving the most is encountering other drivers, coming in the opposite direction (they are apparently very sensitive to light and have a hard time with bright lights at night). He practiced all this. His car records show he drove quite a bit.

I can easily theorize/speculate that in order to be so disciplined about overcoming his issues, he also had a very rigid mindset, perhaps equipped with specific goals. I'm guessing the roads around Moscow were pretty dark at night, and that he chose times when there was little traffic. It would be interesting to know where, aside from near 1122 King Road, he was driving at night. Maybe he went out driving almost every night.

To me, this crime speaks of longterm homicidal fantasy combined with some sort of acute stressors that triggered immediate action. JUST a theory.

All of this was speculation, so

IMO.

IOW, he was his own "hero" for overcoming adversity (and everyone around him should have recognized that, he felt). For whatever reason, he disliked and had a hard time with women. He knew and knows how to "schmooze" but doesn't sustain actual friendships, and aside from his family, apparently has no longterm intimate relationships. He is competitive and self-absorbed. I also believe he spent a lot of time online, which may well put several nails in his figurative coffin.

JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

He definitely wasn't suffering imo since he regularly drove to the area of their home "on at least 12 prior occasions all of which were late at night except one." So for this and the reasons stated the other day, I don't see this working for them as a potential defense. Not to mention they have yet to even raise it themselves lol.

jmo

I wasn't talking about his VSS (f he does indeed have it) as a defense.

I stated that might have been the reason he turned the phone off driving in familiar territory to the house, and then had to turn it back on as he left and went who knows where probably trying to dispose of the evidence. He would have needed navigation, as we have all seen what a terrible driver BK is.

MOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

I wasn't talking about his VSS I(f he does indeed have it) as a defense.

I stated that might have been the reason he turned the phone off driving in familiar territory to the house, and then had to turn it back on as he left and went who knows where probably trying to dispose of the evidence. He would have needed navigation, as we have all seen what a terrible driver BK is.

MOO

Yes, I understood what you meant. I was more thinking out loud that I don't think that defense will hold much water MOO. There have been so many posts speculating that it will be a defense (not your post, I know). I think it's a loser argument but that's jmo. On the phone, my first thought when the pca became public was that he needed the gps to guide him back from his way out-of-the-way route back to Pullman and indeed this may be the only reason he took it with him. But, that's speculation too, of course.

jmo

 

[Boxer]

Especially since the snap mechanism involves a very small groove, such that one would likely need a specialized narrow swab to "clean" it. DNA is not easily destroyed. Bleach would have been obvious, as it would have bleached the leather.

At any rate, his DNA was there, within the snap mechanism. And no one else's DNA was there.

Yes. And the snap mechanism on mikitary knives are some of the hardest snaps to close.
MOO the amount of force needed to close the snap, at least when new, would jam cells under the edge of the snap cap where they escaped cleaning.

 

[schooling]

Well if they can't see straight due to conspiracy brain, then they can't. DA has to proceed with a straight case, which he has.

I do think that there are some naturally conspiratorial folks and those who are generally skeptical about any LE motives. But it feels like something else is at play here. A weird mix of sympathy for BK (the 'he probably was just giving someone a ride' folks) and outright denial based on how smart some think he's supposed to be ('he's way smarter than driving his car in front of cameras like that, can't be him'.

He's both dumb enough to be conned or become a patsy or to could never clean his car that well. But also too genius to have made simple mistakes.

Where do people who were waiting for a bombshell alibi stand now?

 

[Boxer]

I do think that there are some naturally conspiratorial folks and those who are generally skeptical about any LE motives. But it feels like something else is at play here. A weird mix of sympathy for BK (the 'he probably was just giving someone a ride' folks) and outright denial based on how smart some think he's supposed to be ('he's way smarter than driving his car in front of cameras like that, can't be him'.

He's both dumb enough to be conned or become a patsy or to could never clean his car that well. But also too genius to have made simple mistakes.

Where do people who were waiting for a bombshell alibi stand now?

His alibi is pretty much "I was there."

 

[iamshadow21]

His alibi is pretty much "I was there."

He and Richard Allen can hang out together in that club.

MOO

 

[I'm Nobody]

My belief is that he started early to try and overcome each and every one of the symptoms of his condition. He did a little project on hidden disabilities at community college. He learned to drive. He tried illicit coping mechanisms but then took the road of personal discipline (changing his exercise and eating habits thoroughly).

He became a night runner first (I believe that was in late high school/early college years - perhaps continued for quite some time, we don't know). He became a night driver. The thing that limits VSS sufferers from night driving the most is encountering other drivers, coming in the opposite direction (they are apparently very sensitive to light and have a hard time with bright lights at night). He practiced all this. His car records show he drove quite a bit.

I can easily theorize/speculate that in order to be so disciplined about overcoming his issues, he also had a very rigid mindset, perhaps equipped with specific goals. I'm guessing the roads around Moscow were pretty dark at night, and that he chose times when there was little traffic. It would be interesting to know where, aside from near 1122 King Road, he was driving at night. Maybe he went out driving almost every night.

To me, this crime speaks of longterm homicidal fantasy combined with some sort of acute stressors that triggered immediate action. JUST a theory.

All of this was speculation, so

IMO.

IOW, he was his own "hero" for overcoming adversity (and everyone around him should have recognized that, he felt). For whatever reason, he disliked and had a hard time with women. He knew and knows how to "schmooze" but doesn't sustain actual friendships, and aside from his family, apparently has no longterm intimate relationships. He is competitive and self-absorbed. I also believe he spent a lot of time online, which may well put several nails in his figurative coffin.

JMO.

Such great speculation. @10ofRods Thank you. Yes, BK did seem to overcome some obstacles in his life. It could have been an inspiring story if he had NOT used the same discipline and determination to murder four beautiful souls.

That's all he'll be remembered for.
JMO

edit wording twice

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

My belief is that he started early to try and overcome each and every one of the symptoms of his condition. He did a little project on hidden disabilities at community college. He learned to drive. He tried illicit coping mechanisms but then took the road of personal discipline (changing his exercise and eating habits thoroughly).

He became a night runner first (I believe that was in late high school/early college years - perhaps continued for quite some time, we don't know). He became a night driver. The thing that limits VSS sufferers from night driving the most is encountering other drivers, coming in the opposite direction (they are apparently very sensitive to light and have a hard time with bright lights at night). He practiced all this. His car records show he drove quite a bit.

I can easily theorize/speculate that in order to be so disciplined about overcoming his issues, he also had a very rigid mindset, perhaps equipped with specific goals. I'm guessing the roads around Moscow were pretty dark at night, and that he chose times when there was little traffic. It would be interesting to know where, aside from near 1122 King Road, he was driving at night. Maybe he went out driving almost every night.

To me, this crime speaks of longterm homicidal fantasy combined with some sort of acute stressors that triggered immediate action. JUST a theory.

All of this was speculation, so

IMO.

IOW, he was his own "hero" for overcoming adversity (and everyone around him should have recognized that, he felt). For whatever reason, he disliked and had a hard time with women. He knew and knows how to "schmooze" but doesn't sustain actual friendships, and aside from his family, apparently has no longterm intimate relationships. He is competitive and self-absorbed. I also believe he spent a lot of time online, which may well put several nails in his figurative coffin.

JMO.

Great post with one nit: I’ve seen nothing to indicate he tried even basic sleep hygiene for managing his self-reported VSS symptoms, MOO.

So, to me, he seems to have tried what he wanted while apparently completely ignoring a foundational aspect of symptom management, MOO.

Seems to me to potentially be a pattern in his life, MOO.

 

[gremlin444]

Great post with one nit: I’ve seen nothing to indicate he tried even basic sleep hygiene for managing his self-reported VSS symptoms, MOO.

So, to me, he seems to have tried what he wanted while apparently completely ignoring a foundational aspect of symptom management, MOO.

Seems to me to potentially be a pattern in his life, MOO.

My 20 w/VSS worked very hard on improving his sleep hygiene. He goes to bed between 9 and 10 pm every night and falls asleep quickly, limits his screen time, eats healthy, etc. And that had little to no effect on his VSS severity.