4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

[NextSprint]

Snipped by me.

Comprehensive it certainly is. Very good stuff.

And just like automatic firearms, I don't think the founding fathers had any appreciation for data sorting at the level of more than half a million determinants for each person; or that a database representing the exact identifiers for only 2% of the population would effectively permit prediction of the key content for 80%.....

The 4th amendment made a man's home his castle but probably never foresaw the authorities going dumpster-diving. Curb side or otherwise.

MOO and with levity

Maybe it's ripe for a Supreme Court test after all.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That's something I've never really thought about. Could BK have suspected LE was on to him before he left WSU? If so, why? Did he know it was only a matter of time once he realized he'd left behind the sheath? Or had he figured he'd been careful enough? It's interesting to think about. JMO.

I think it was a combination of him realizing he left the sheath and then the request for the Elantra driver(s) to come forward as they may have information.

He also changed his plate registration from PA to WA 5 days after the murders, that is no coincidence to me. He probably thought that would help mask the identity of his car for a bit realizing it may have been caught on video somewhere.

He is a criminal justice major so he definitely had the mindset to be thinking about how LE was looking for the perp.

Just MOO

 

[NextSprint]

That's something I've never really thought about. Could BK have suspected LE was on to him before he left WSU? If so, why? Did he know it was only a matter of time once he realized he'd left behind the sheath? Or had he figured he'd been careful enough? It's interesting to think about. JMO.

Let's say he's innocent right, but knows he was driving around the area and knows he drives a white Elantra. I'm pretty sure he would have been on tenter hooks! Or if guilty, pretty obvious why. IMO.

 

[TL4S]

Think he would have been most nervous post public white elantra announcement. Moo

I have to admit, if BK is convicted, I kind of love that some of the key pieces of evidence against him are the very things he had studied and wanted to work with... digital evidence.

 

[maskedwoman]

Let's say he's innocent right, but knows he was driving around the area and knows he drives a white Elantra. I'm pretty sure he would have been on tenter hooks! Or if guilty, pretty obvious why. IMO.

Yes but with his educational field, and assumed understanding of criminal procedure, it seems rather odd for an innocent BK to do nothing to get himself off the hook - tenter or otherwise. LOL

I'm not sure why this hadn't occurred to me before but can you imagine how it must have felt to live in that area, be innocent and driving a white Elantra before BK was arrested? Every time I had to go out, I would feel like everyone was staring at me and wondering if I was the killer. At the risk of starting up the "never talk to the police" argument again, if I were in that situation, and innocent, I would be eager to have LE eliminate my Elantra. It wouldn't make everyone stop staring at me but at least I wouldn't be waiting for LE to show up and want to talk to me. MOOooo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That's something I've never really thought about. Could BK have suspected LE was on to him before he left WSU? If so, why? Did he know it was only a matter of time once he realized he'd left behind the sheath? Or had he figured he'd been careful enough? It's interesting to think about. JMO.

I would have imagined that from the minute he realised the sheath was missing, he knew the gig was up one way or another and that from there on in every action he took was evasive or preventative or suchlike.

If it's true that he created the social media profiles on FB and 4chan then clearly he was in a highly activated state. We know he cleaned his car, was wearing gloves, and sorting trash... I'd say that would be the more obvious signs that he was in tailspin. JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

That's something I've never really thought about. Could BK have suspected LE was on to him before he left WSU? If so, why? Did he know it was only a matter of time once he realized he'd left behind the sheath? Or had he figured he'd been careful enough? It's interesting to think about. JMO.

We know he's up in the middle of the night and that's when the WSU officer located his car so maybe he realized he was ID'd. JMOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Let's say he's innocent right, but knows he was driving around the area and knows he drives a white Elantra. I'm pretty sure he would have been on tenter hooks! Or if guilty, pretty obvious why. IMO.

I'll bet he was toying with the idea of reporting his car stolen.

 

[Balthazar]

But NONE of the above is relevant to this case. The IGG process was verified, in the end, to be correct. That was, IN FACT, BK's DNA on the sheath. So software glitches did not happen during the IGG process.

The state is trying to figure out if the defendant stabbed 4 students to death. The state is not concerned about 'making certain the IGG software worked without glitches.' That is not the concern because there was a wholly separate scientific process which correctly identified this defendant as 100% match to that unknown DNA--- Without using any of the IGG software.

AT is trying to send this court on a wild goose chase. IMO

How do you know if it relevant or not? Has an unbiased outside source run the same type of match on the DNA evidence? The answer is: No. So you do not know and there is no way for you to know if the results are accurate unless and until the DNA results and IGG results are rerun by an unbiased outside source and proven to be be either accurate or inaccurate or at the very least, the complete documentation of the process is given to the defense. This is not a wild goose chase. This is a very reasonable question to pursue. And yes, Anne Taylor should be given the documentation of the complete process and if there is any DNA sample left, she should be given that as well to have run by an unbiased outside source. A man's life is at stake.

This is no difference than a patient getting a second opinion. If your life was at stake wouldn't you get a second opinion? I certainly hope you would. And when you get a second opinion, your doctor will usually give you a copy of your complete labs and diagnosis to take to the doctor who will give the second opinion. This is normal and usual. Your doctor doesn't try to hold onto your labs and diagnosis and hide it from the doctor who will give the second opinion. They give you complete information of how you were diagnosed with whatever. Then the doctor who gives the second opinion reads your labs and diagnosis and decides if more information is needed and may or may not run additional labs depending on what he/she sees and will render his/her opinion on your diagnosis.

If the prosecution is certain of their results, they should not mind giving this information and even a sample of the DNA to the defense if any is left.

 

[Balthazar]

The defense has already said they will not be calling the IGG experts at trial. They're not questioning the end results. They know the end results are accurate. They know the dna is a match. They're trying to get it thrown out on a technicality.

If either side brings in the IGG at trial, the prosecution can easily create the family tree that shows how all the matches lead to BK. There is no way in the world the prosecution is going to ditch the dna for fear the defense will question the IGG process.

Whether they use the IGG at trial or not, they still owe the defense the complete documentation showing how they arrived at BK as a suspect and that WAS through the IGG process. What if a mistake was made somewhere along the process? What if there was a software error of some type? The entire DNA process should be replicable by the defense. IF not, it should be thrown out as evidence.

 

[Chloegirl]

I am personally flummoxed as to why, in this investigation, IGG or FGG (and who understands the difference between the two?) should be an issue to research at all.

The PCA was brought to life and accepted by the judge - even begging the disallowance of the DNA by the prosecution. The IGG, whenever it was accomplished is even a more minor factor than the DNA. So the PCA should certainly not be questioned, IMO.

I am also confused as to why, in this investigation, the training records of the LE team who participated in the investigation should have their training records scrutinized.

In my opinion, suspicion should well be brought if there is a probable cause. For instance, if an investigator was seen or heard attempting to 'lead' a witness, or emotionally or physically overbearing in their interviewing a witness. Or moving, adding, or changing anything at the scene of the crime.

I have not seen, have any of you, any accusation by the defense that any of the LE team investigators have done something illegal? It makes me upset that the AC is putting them on notice without giving any reason or proof their of wrongdoing.

I am uncomfortable in that AC and her team are trying to become the prosecutors and the state has to submit to playing the role of the defense. All in spite of basic facts (as we are allowed to know them considering the gag order [which, IMO, is certainly working in favor of BK]). I am left thinking this is more a game of word smithing, distraction, and manipulation.

. . . and very far from really trying to discover if Bk murdered four innocent, unsuspecting, vibrant young lives. Obligatory MOO.

AT and the Defense team doth (spl?) protest too much. They are bordering on making a mockery of the system with their defense. Part of me wants to scream these families and victims deserve more than this. It's not so much that it's an indefensible position to take (it is their job to defend BK) as it is extreme and insulting. JMOO

 

[Boxer]

That's something I've never really thought about. Could BK have suspected LE was on to him before he left WSU? If so, why? Did he know it was only a matter of time once he realized he'd left behind the sheath? Or had he figured he'd been careful enough? It's interesting to think about. JMO.

MOO he knew police had his car make when they made the public appeal for a white Elantra.

 

[Boxer]

Yes but with his educational field, and assumed understanding of criminal procedure, it seems rather odd for an innocent BK to do nothing to get himself off the hook - tenter or otherwise. LOL

I'm not sure why this hadn't occurred to me before but can you imagine how it must have felt to live in that area, be innocent and driving a white Elantra before BK was arrested? Every time I had to go out, I would feel like everyone was staring at me and wondering if I was the killer. At the risk of starting up the "never talk to the police" argument again, if I were in that situation, and innocent, I would be eager to have LE eliminate my Elantra. It wouldn't make everyone stop staring at me but at least I wouldn't be waiting for LE to show up and want to talk to me. MOOooo

As a person studying crime, which had only one ultimate goal, lessening crime, that he didnt go to the police when they asked for the Elantra is damning behavior.

 

[m00c0w]

Whether they use the IGG at trial or not, they still owe the defense the complete documentation showing how they arrived at BK as a suspect and that WAS through the IGG process. What if a mistake was made somewhere along the process? What if there was a software error of some type? The entire DNA process should be replicable by the defense. IF not, it should be thrown out as evidence.

He was already on their radar. He was made a suspect because the evidence looked good for him committing the crime. He wasn’t a suspect merely because FBI passed them a lead. That’s not how leads work. There had to be substantive evidence pointing to his guilt for them to move forward. This is also written in the DoJ FGG policy memo - it’s not to be used as evidence to arrest someone, just a lead. And the lead panned out in the best way possible.

As for the defense getting the DNA sample, they have access to this. They always have. The state has always been willing to provide this and said as much in their protective order motion.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

To be honest, she sent all of us on a wild goose chase. If it pointed to BK and ultimately his father's DNA did NOT match they would go look for the "real" murderer. But it DiID match, so the use of it reinforces the software is accurate.

I feel like we are going in circles for absolutely no reason (argument for arguments sake) just because it's called into question. We don't have to take that bait. Frankly, there are more interesting aspects to this case than the IGG suspect identifying data that was reinforced by the DNA cheek swab.

The courts may need to decide if we are truly allowed to use it. That remains to be seen. So arguing repeatedly about the use of it seems moot. JMOO

True. The investigators followed their policy from the DOJ.
CODIS search first if no match then the GG search of opted-in databases.
Its another challenge like the one to the Grand Jury.
Challenges to established policy and procedures, basically saying "you shouldn't be able to catch me like that."

 

[Sundog]

IIRC, there was some concern about the DNA testing by LE in Pullman, Washington when they submitted their probable cause for a search warrant to the court for a search of BK's apartment. In addition to their probable cause request for a search warrant for BK's apartment, they included a "Supplemental Disclosure re: DNA Test", noting that if the court at some point finds that the DNA test results are inadmissable, then they ask the court that it not impact the probable cause for their search warrant on BK's apartment.

So apparently Pullman LE were aware that the DNA testing at that time was potentially inadmissable.

 

[OnaZgSleuth]

MOO

I would like to give a potential scenario that I think possible. All of this is just me supposing and asking questions.

So we know BK was for sure driving around that night and him being into crime professionally I guess he would be more inclined to contact police should there be anything to discuss about a crime he is aware of.

I am wondering if it is possible that he did contact police and talk to them in the aftermath of the murders because he had some information he wanted to share with them? Is it possible that he was in fact the confidential informant that was talked about?

Is it possible that this is in fact the way how he got onto the LE radar?

These musings of mine do not imply his guilt or innocence, I am just saying that he chould have contacted LE by himself. These interactions would be under gag order now and would not be shared with the public. But if he is guilty that might have been his way of pretending and getting close to investigation. And if he is innocent, my head hurts thinking of possible scenarios.

All MOO, JMOO of course

 

[10ofRods]

What the defense is talking about is their hope the police used a profile from someone that opted out to build the DNA family tree from the DNA profile on the sheath.

And yet, if they used Othram, everyone opted in for this entirely forensic database.

Also, the database itself would have to have suffered a real programming failure or hacking, as it's not as if databases permit LE to access the data directly (every one of these databases has its own proprietary software and database design).

It's definitely a "hope," but more like a Hail Mary.

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IIRC, there was some concern about the DNA testing by LE in Pullman, Washington when they submitted their probable cause for a search warrant to the court for a search of BK's apartment. In addition to their probable cause request for a search warrant for BK's apartment, they included a "Supplemental Disclosure re: DNA Test", noting that if the court at some point finds that the DNA test results are inadmissable, then they ask the court that it not impact the probable cause for their search warrant on BK's apartment.

So apparently Pullman LE were aware that the DNA testing at that time was potentially inadmissable.

Does it say they were specifically concerned about the DNA testing by LE in Pullman or just DNA testing in general?

 

[Sundog]

Does it say they were specifically concerned about the DNA testing by LE in Pullman or just DNA testing in general?

Kohberger warrant

www.documentcloud.org

The "Supplemental Disclosure re: DNA Test" section of the application for a search warrant for BK's apartment by LE in Pullman, WA is on page 14 of this cloud document that several OPs posted earlier on this forum.

The Supplemental Disclosure states that the Idaho State Crime Lab obtained a male DNA (Suspect Profile) from a sheath recovered at the murder site on November 13, 2022. Then, on December 27, 2022, LE in PA recovered trash from the Kohberger family residence and it was sent to the Idaho Crime Lab for testing. On December 28, 2022, the Idaho State Crime Lab reported that a DNA profile was obtained from the trash; it was compared to the Suspect DNA profile. Lab Personnel concluded that the source of the trash DNA profile was male and was not being excluded as the biological father of the source of the Suspect Profile.