4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #96

[wendy44]

Howard Blum says in his book that FBI didn't initiate the stops, but they were somewhat freaked out by them, worried it would cause BK to become suspicious law enforcement was onto him. He wrote that they had still not given the name produced by IGG to MPD, but these stops contributed to accelerating their timeline of the raid on the house. He also wrote that they lost their tail on him at the start of the trip when BK and his dad took an alternate route they weren't expecting. I can dig up the quotes, but not sure how I'd link to the source material.

Blum had a very heavy "theme" of the FBI protecting its info from local law enforcement and wanting to be the ones who cracked the case and made the arrest--I'm not sure how much of his analysis is factual versus opinion based on his biases.

 

[wendy44]

Agreed, we did know it was coming and I feel like there definitely should be more legislation and guidelines around the use of GGI, Phenotyping, AI, and LE's legal role in all of this. Can you imagine what technology might be available in another 5 years?

BK has no expectation of privacy for the DNA found on the knife sheath at a CS. Someone along the way: sister, brother, mother, father, distant cousin, aunt, uncle uploaded their DNA, who knows when, into a genetic data base.

The FBI was able to drill down from the sample DNA recovered legally at the crime scene and concluded that it would ultimately belong to someone with the surname Kohberger. Again, K DNA was obtained legally by gaining access to the K's garbage left out for pickup which matched Pop K and indicated it would be a male child of his.

It was a tip for LE, who already had BK on their radar IMO due to his car, DMV photo confirmed by DM, CAST information, video surveillance and who knows what else. I feel confident in the State's case against BK without the GGI.

Once arrested and a buccal swab taken, it was a single source STR match 5+ Octillion times likely belonging to BK. That's a lock.

I'm curious why BK's parents were subpoenaed to testify at a PA GJ and those results then shared with ID, that's unusual and they tried unsuccessfully to have it quashed. I also wonder if Pop K had planned on flying out and driving home with BK all along or if BK called him after the murders and during his termination process as a TA position? Did BK dispose of 'garbage' along his route home? I don't believe BK ever intended to go back to WSU, too risky.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/us/idaho-kohberger-parents-subpoena/index.html#

JMO

Yes, this is exactly right. The thing is, all the things you're mentioning that are legal and routine have been challenged and tested in court. When new technology is used by law enforcement defense attorneys will challenge it and the courts decide if it's constitutional. With the advent of technology, the 4th amendment has morphed into questions about our expectation of privacy because technology can reach so far beyond law enforcement physically searching and seizing. What is our reasonable expectation of privacy. What does law enforcement need a warrant for and what should we reasonably understand is not private and not protected.

It's all incremental. The courts have said if you leave your dna at a crime scene, you have no expectation of privacy and law enforcement can "have" it. The courts have said your dna can be entered into CODIS and law enforcement can "have" it available for searching and matching. The courts have said if you discard your dna on a cup or cigarette butt or other trash that law enforcement can "have" it.

Because our dna is so similar to dna of our relatives that law enforcement can figure out who we are if they have it, they essentially "have" our dna if they have our relatives' dna. Now that law enforcement is using this technique, the courts need to decide if this is a constitutional way of "having" our dna. Is it a violation of our rights if they don't have our dna in a way that courts have already said is constitutional.

 

[Boxer]

Yes, this is exactly right. The thing is, all the things you're mentioning that are legal and routine have been challenged and tested in court. When new technology is used by law enforcement defense attorneys will challenge it and the courts decide if it's constitutional. With the advent of technology, the 4th amendment has morphed into questions about our expectation of privacy because technology can reach so far beyond law enforcement physically searching and seizing. What is our reasonable expectation of privacy. What does law enforcement need a warrant for and what should we reasonably understand is not private and not protected.

It's all incremental. The courts have said if you leave your dna at a crime scene, you have no expectation of privacy and law enforcement can "have" it. The courts have said your dna can be entered into CODIS and law enforcement can "have" it available for searching and matching. The courts have said if you discard your dna on a cup or cigarette butt or other trash that law enforcement can "have" it.

Because our dna is so similar to dna of our relatives that law enforcement can figure out who we are if they have it, they essentially "have" our dna if they have our relatives' dna. Now that law enforcement is using this technique, the courts need to decide if this is a constitutional way of "having" our dna. Is it a violation of our rights if they don't have our dna in a way that courts have already said is constitutional.

MOO DNA is basically a genetic last name.

 

[Nila Aella]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Ada County CR01-24-31665 / Latah County CR29-22-2805

• 11/19/2024 Amended Petition for Appointment of Special Assistant Attorneys General
• 11/19/2024 Stipulated Motion to Seal all Exhibits in Support of Motions to Suppress
• 11/19/2024 Stipulated Motion to Seal Defendants Memo
• 11/20/2024 Memorandum Decision and Order on Death Penalty Motions

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

ETA link/title

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

And to piggy back on this, my phone now gives a warning under the power off button that explicitly states (phone findable when powered off)

This is a newer notification, while not a totally new feature… GPS satellites are different from cellular data/towers … moo, no expert

My phone battery ran down overnight as I hadn't put the charger in correctly and yet the screen still said 'this phone is still findable' - a new message I'd never seen before, I was so confused!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I’ve wondered why LE made the traffic stops, because they seem to have no rhyme or reason.

IMO

Maybe hoping to see evidence of cuts or injuries on his face or hands?

 

[Shadowtrix]

I'm a US resident and pulling someone over for following too close is very very rare.

Although the FBI will probably not admit to what they do, BK's Elantra being pulled over twice to me means they were surveilling him on his cross-country trip to Pennsylvania. The officer had to make up some infraction to make it seem legit.

I’ve always been of this opinion, too, and still am.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It was a high risk thing of local traffic cops to pull over BK, he could have tipped over the edge and done something extreme. I wonder to what extend he was already being psychologically profiled and his responses predicted?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

My phone battery ran down overnight as I hadn't put the charger in correctly and yet the screen still said 'this phone is still findable' - a new message I'd never seen before, I was so confused!

My youngest son (high school senior) pointed it out to me recently … it’s been that way before, just not as obvious

 

[Swansee]

11/20/2024 Memorandum Decision and Order on Death Penalty Motions

No surprise there: It seemed obvious these motions would fail. This is very clearly a DP case. But hey they had to give it a try, I guess.
As always thanks @Nila Aella for sharing these links here!

 

[schooling]

It was a high risk thing of local traffic cops to pull over BK, he could have tipped over the edge and done something extreme. I wonder to what extend he was already being psychologically profiled and his responses predicted?

Early reporting was that the FBI wanted a visual on him and inside the car because they wanted to see his demeanor and they weren't quite sure of the nature of his trip. Then it abruptly changed to denials of FBI involvement.

You have to imagine AT LEAST 1 of the 2 was related. If both were...maybe the request went out and was accidentally sent to two different places. And the first agency didn't inform the other agency of the stop? Result in unintended back to back stops?

I can't imagine that the FBI would plan or ever approve of spooking him like that.

MOO

 

[schooling]

Yes, this is exactly right. The thing is, all the things you're mentioning that are legal and routine have been challenged and tested in court. When new technology is used by law enforcement defense attorneys will challenge it and the courts decide if it's constitutional. With the advent of technology, the 4th amendment has morphed into questions about our expectation of privacy because technology can reach so far beyond law enforcement physically searching and seizing. What is our reasonable expectation of privacy. What does law enforcement need a warrant for and what should we reasonably understand is not private and not protected.

It's all incremental. The courts have said if you leave your dna at a crime scene, you have no expectation of privacy and law enforcement can "have" it. The courts have said your dna can be entered into CODIS and law enforcement can "have" it available for searching and matching. The courts have said if you discard your dna on a cup or cigarette butt or other trash that law enforcement can "have" it.

Because our dna is so similar to dna of our relatives that law enforcement can figure out who we are if they have it, they essentially "have" our dna if they have our relatives' dna. Now that law enforcement is using this technique, the courts need to decide if this is a constitutional way of "having" our dna. Is it a violation of our rights if they don't have our dna in a way that courts have already said is constitutional.

I think regardless of what the courts decides, frustrated investigators will continue to secretly submit profiles to generate leads. And then they'll use those leads to get a likely match (primary suspect). Then they'll find a court palpable path to that match via a more traditional route (alibi, means, motive, eye witnesses, physical evidence through additional context, interviews etc). Out of that will come their "lead" that broke open the case and led them to suspect and the evidence against them.

The cat is out of the bag. A strongly worded TOS is not going to prevent this from happening off the record.

They are better off regulating it and creating a national clearing house (spooky, I know) than outright banning it.

 

[LinasK]

And to follow the wallet example, regular genealogy is used to find someone, what is only a library or membership card was dropped or something with a last name imprinted… last name along with birth/death/marriage certificates and all available public records and databases can be utilized to try and track down leads…

They had reason to suspect BK prior to DNA it seems… and if the relative’s DNA was entered into the database voluntarily, and TOS were followed I’m having trouble understanding the argument

But I suppose by going to the 4th amendment directly and if things resolve in favor of LE then this could set case precedent to aid other investigations… but if it somehow gets tossed … what a mess … moo

Yes, getting Genetic Genealogy tossed would be a major mess. Many murder convictions could be overturned, including the guy who murdered my cousin.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Yes, getting Genetic Genealogy tossed would be a major mess. Many murder convictions could be overturned, including the guy who murdered my cousin.

That profoundly stinks! I’m so sorry for your loss-

 

[MrsWatson]

An easy way to insure your DNA isn't used to find out you committed a crime is not to commit crimes, imo.

 

[LinasK]

An easy way to insure your DNA isn't used to find out you committed a crime is not to commit crimes, imo.

Criminals are usually too arrogant or stupid enough to think that either they won't get caught, don't understand how DNA works, or in my cousin's case- he tried to argue that LE didn't have a right to his beer glass in a bar, but he had also provided them a buccal swab, so it was a moot argument.

 

[MrsWatson]

Criminals are usually too arrogant or stupid enough to think that either they won't get caught, don't understand how DNA works, or in my cousin's case- he tried to argue that LE didn't have a right to his beer glass in a bar, but he had also provided them a buccal swab, so it was a moot argument.

Sometimes I think these criminals have never seen an episode of Forensic Files. What a dumbazz.

 

[Megnut]

MOO DNA is basically a genetic last name.

It's like a whole name. And a map to the front door.

JMO

 

[schooling]

And to piggy back on this, my phone now gives a warning under the power off button that explicitly states (phone findable when powered off)

This is a newer notification, while not a totally new feature… GPS satellites are different from cellular data/towers … moo, no expert

The way Apple’s Find My technology (including AirTags, and your dead phone) is actually a good example of how a phone (or an Airtag) constantly broadcasting out it's presence violates our privacy. This happens hundreds to thousands (if you live in a major city) times a day without us noticing. For every device/wifi that shows up on our "Available Connections" list we leave a piece of our phones identity behind in it's memory. JMO.

I'm going off of 2 assumptions

1. The independent reporting and/or Kayleigh's Dad are correct. The FBI has Bluetooth and Wifi evidence connecting BK to the crime scene. A capability that everyone knew was plausible but had no clue the FBI was actively using it.
2. The Defense's filing to exclude the location data on his phone tells us there's something there that they don't want the jurors to see. JMO.

From there this is my best guess scenario, ALL OF THE BELOW IS MOO, I AM NOT AN EXPERT NOR DO I CLAIM TO BE ONE

1) BK's phone wasn't off. It was in Airplane Mode. This is the only way that report is plausible.
2) I think BK was concerned that if his escape route changed (LE presence/response, wrong turn in the dark) he could get lost. Airplane mode would still give him access to anonymous GPS mapping. He could see where his blue dot was on the cached map without the need for any data transmission with Google or AT&T.
3) Airplane mode also appears as your phone being off to AT&T. Which eliminates being location tracked by towers (via triangulation). Also eliminating the possibility that his phone transmits any unintended data at all.
4) This likely gave BK the sense that he was in full control. A ghost.
5) I think BK approaches the house. His phone is likely in a zip lock bag, in his pocket.
6) While committing the crimes, BK's phone is mindlessly doing it's job. Searching for Wifi access points and/or Bluetooth devices to connect to.
7) at various points it pings off of a bluetooth and/or wifi device without successfully connecting.
8) during this time, the two survivors are texting each other about what is happening in real time (its my interpretation of the PCAs statement about forensic evidence from DM and BFs phone) creating a record of when the murders likely happened.
9) LE will likely use the time of those text exchanges combined with the time of BKs phone pinging off of a bluetooth or wifi device in the home to place him inside or within BLE's normal operating range. Either way, I bet a couple 100ft still contradicts his alibi.
10) thought BK never manually enters an address in Google Maps on this night. Or may have never even opened it. Unbeknownst to him Google is still keep tabs on his locations this entire time. It stores it locally first.
11) Yes, Going back to when he first pulled into Washington. Yes, on his first trip into Idaho.
12) The moment BK pulls closer to his apartment in Pullman and confidently turns on his phone. Google Maps has already done the damage and sealed his fate.

Let's also keep in mind when the PCA was written LE did not have physical possession of his phone. And didn't have access to this GPS data. Which is why they relied so heavily on cellular triangulation. JMO.

IMO
I think the defense is likely not as worried about the bluetooth/wifi evidence. IMO retrieving that stuff from short term memory comes with a lot of questions. And IMO mac addresses can get messy. And IMO the defense can claim that BK's driven by the house before and came in close enough range and the time stamps are off. JMO.

BUT.....if BK really did forget to turn off location history. A feature that up until December 2023 Google went out of their way to obfuscate from users (they now have it off by default, only keep 3 months of data, etc etc). Then that means LE likely has the time he stopped at the house on King Rd, the time he left the house on King Rd, and the general areas in which he likely stopped that night and in the subsequent days to get rid of evidence (which of note, they have not been able to find). JMO.

IMO I think the defense knew that the triangulation data was going to be the easier of the two challenges. As it's been successfully challenged in court before (Adnan's case on appeal being most recent). It's approximate from everything we know (IMO)

I think this entire ride that they've taken us on about IGG in relation to the warrants was to try and get this likely (IMO) DAMNING piece of GPS (which can be extremely accurate as we know by driving our cars) evidence thrown out.

I am not an expert. Just a generalist with hobbies. I make no claim at being an expert and shouldn't be interpreted as such. All MOO, if i hadn't said it enough

Sources:

Technology could place Kohberger at scene of Idaho murder...

Bryan Kohberger is charged with the murder of four University of Idaho students.

www.newsweek.com

Kaylee Goncalves' father assumed suspect followed victims before Moscow murders

"I miss what she meant to the family," Steve Goncalves said about the loss of his daughter. "She knew how to make memories."

www.ktvb.com

The last article is about the wifi claim and KG's dad.

 

[wendy44]

Yes, getting Genetic Genealogy tossed would be a major mess. Many murder convictions could be overturned, including the guy who murdered my cousin.

I've been meaning to catch up on your cousin's thread since I saw in your signature there was an arrest and conviction and I finally did--wow, what a ride. He reminded me of Sarah Boone (suitcase suffocator) with the constant firings of defense attorneys to delay his trial. I'm glad his dad saw a conviction and I'm so sorry for your family's loss.