4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97

[wendy44]

I think there actually is video of a white Elantra traveling east toward Moscow, but the defense disputes that it's BK's Elantra. It's not in the PCA, but in the Supplemental Response to the State's Alibi Demand the defense says:

"Mr. Kohberger intends to offer testimony of Sy Ray, CSLI expert, (cell tower, cell phone and other radio frequency, curricula vitae is attached) to show that Bryan Kohberger's mobile device was south of Pullman, Washington and west of Moscow, Idaho on November 13, 2022; that Bryan Kohberger's mobile device did not travel east on the Moscow-Pullman Highway in the early morning hours of November 13, and thus could not be the vehicle captured on video along the Moscow-Pullman Highway near Floyd's Cannabis Shop."

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/041724-Notice-Defendants-Supplemental-Response-States-AD.pdf

There's no mention in the motion of the time stamp on this video, but it shows that the prosecution has additional video not included in the PCA. Floyd's is on the route that you would likely take going from Pullman to King Rd. It's kind of interesting that the defense chooses to dispute this video, but none of the ones that we know about in the PCA.

2:42am--BK's phone using cellular resources at his residence

2:44am--vehicle consistent with description of Elantra observed on WSU surveillance cameras traveling north on southeast Nevada St at northeast Stadium Way (not disputed--consistent with movements of phone)

2:47am--BK's phone used resources that provide coverage southeast of residence consistent with phone leaving residence and traveling south through Pullman

2:53am--white sedan observed traveling southeast on Nevada St in Pullman towards SR 270, which connects Pullman to Moscow (not disputed--consistent with movements of phone, but phone has stopped reporting to the network by this point)

Between 2:53am and 3:25am--video of white sedan traveling east on 270 toward Moscow (disputed by defense)

3:25am--white sedan westbound in 700 block of Indian Hills Dr Moscow (not disputed)

3:28am--vehicle westbound on Styner Ave at Idaho State Highway 95 in Moscow (not disputed--in at least one of these videos it appeared the vehicle was not displaying a front license plate)

3:29am--review of footage from multiple videos obtained in King Rd neighborhood showed multiple sightings of the suspect vehicle starting at 3:29am, including three passes by 1122 King Rd. Review of the video showed only a few cars enter and exit at this time (not disputed)

4:04am--seen entering a 4th time, driving eastbound on King Rd, stopping and turning around in front of 500 Queen Rd, then driving back westbound King Rd. Seen attempting to park or turn around in the road, made a 3-point turn at the intersection of Queen Rd and King Rd, then drove eastbound again down Queen Rd (not disputed)

4:20am--vehicle seen departing area of King Rd residence at high rate of speed and next observed traveling southbound on Walenta Dr (not disputed)

4:48am--the phone starts reporting to the network again, using services that provide coverage to Idaho State Highway 95 south of Moscow near Blaine, Idaho. Depending on where exactly that is, it's about 15 minutes south of King Rd--completely consistent with leaving King Rd at 4:20am, stopping somewhere to ditch whatever he needed to ditch, then turning his phone back on as he made the loop back home.

Why does that defense dispute that one video at Floyd's that shows him traveling east, but not any of the video actually near King Rd? It must be the weakest visually, but if the time stamp logically fits with the time the car left Pullman and time it's allegedly seen at King Rd, it's going to be hard to convince the jury it's not the same car.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

We’re starting to see smartphone pedometer data (which most people associate with smart watches) helping with convictions. It’s wild.

Exactly. That type of data assists with confirming locations & timelines. Helps prevent the defense from pointing to other factors which may introduce doubt to the jurors. Played a significant role in assisting proof along with a mountain of circumstantial evidence in the recent Delphi murders trial.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

We’re starting to see smartphone pedometer data (which most people associate with smart watches) helping with convictions. It’s wild.

The first time I remember seeing it used in full force was with Adnan Syed(cell tower data, that is). I haven’t heard of the pedometer. I’m gonna read up on that.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Really, it’s a pretty weak alibi. Why would he think it was a good idea to go that way?

IMO, it's because BK has no Alibi, this is the closest thing to one they could come up with and I agree it's weak. In ID the Defense has to state their alibi if they plan on using it in court IIRC?

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

IMO, it's because BK has no Alibi, this is the closest thing to one they could come up with and I agree it's weak. In ID the Defense has to state their alibi if they plan on using it in court IIRC?

JMO

"I was….I was….I was out stargazing. Yeeeaaahhh, that’s the ticket!"

 

[girlhasnoname]

The first time I remember seeing it used in full force was with Adnan Syed(cell tower data, that is). I haven’t heard of the pedometer. I’m gonna read up on that.

Mollie Tibbets case (here on WS) LE relied on her Fitbit information to asses her location, speed of travel, and ultimately her heart rate and when she last transmitted activity.

There was also the case where a husband killed his wife (Connie Dabate), and her Fitbit disproved his story of events that morning.

Technology is helping these murderers get caught thank goodness. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

I think there actually is video of a white Elantra traveling east toward Moscow, but the defense disputes that it's BK's Elantra. It's not in the PCA, but in the Supplemental Response to the State's Alibi Demand the defense says:

"Mr. Kohberger intends to offer testimony of Sy Ray, CSLI expert, (cell tower, cell phone and other radio frequency, curricula vitae is attached) to show that Bryan Kohberger's mobile device was south of Pullman, Washington and west of Moscow, Idaho on November 13, 2022; that Bryan Kohberger's mobile device did not travel east on the Moscow-Pullman Highway in the early morning hours of November 13, and thus could not be the vehicle captured on video along the Moscow-Pullman Highway near Floyd's Cannabis Shop."

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/041724-Notice-Defendants-Supplemental-Response-States-AD.pdf

There's no mention in the motion of the time stamp on this video, but it shows that the prosecution has additional video not included in the PCA. Floyd's is on the route that you would likely take going from Pullman to King Rd. It's kind of interesting that the defense chooses to dispute this video, but none of the ones that we know about in the PCA.
2:42am--BK's phone using cellular resources at his residence

2:44am--vehicle consistent with description of Elantra observed on WSU surveillance cameras traveling north on southeast Nevada St at northeast Stadium Way (not disputed--consistent with movements of phone)

Where was he traveling North from at 2:44?
jmo

2:47am--BK's phone used resources that provide coverage southeast of residence consistent with phone leaving residence and traveling south through Pullman

2:53am--white sedan observed traveling southeast on Nevada St in Pullman towards SR 270, which connects Pullman to Moscow (not disputed--consistent with movements of phone, but phone has stopped reporting to the network by this point)

Between 2:53am and 3:25am--video of white sedan traveling east on 270 toward Moscow (disputed by defense)
3:25am--white sedan westbound in 700 block of Indian Hills Dr Moscow (not disputed)

3:28am--vehicle westbound on Styner Ave at Idaho State Highway 95 in Moscow (not disputed--in at least one of these videos it appeared the vehicle was not displaying a front license plate)

3:29am--review of footage from multiple videos obtained in King Rd neighborhood showed multiple sightings of the suspect vehicle starting at 3:29am, including three passes by 1122 King Rd. Review of the video showed only a few cars enter and exit at this time (not disputed)

4:04am--seen entering a 4th time, driving eastbound on King Rd, stopping and turning around in front of 500 Queen Rd, then driving back westbound King Rd. Seen attempting to park or turn around in the road, made a 3-point turn at the intersection of Queen Rd and King Rd, then drove eastbound again down Queen Rd (not disputed)

4:20am--vehicle seen departing area of King Rd residence at high rate of speed and next observed traveling southbound on Walenta Dr (not disputed)
4:48am--the phone starts reporting to the network again, using services that provide coverage to Idaho State Highway 95 south of Moscow near Blaine, Idaho. Depending on where exactly that is, it's about 15 minutes south of King Rd--completely consistent with leaving King Rd at 4:20am, stopping somewhere to ditch whatever he needed to ditch, then turning his phone back on as he made the loop back home.

Why does that defense dispute that one video at Floyd's that shows him traveling east, but not any of the video actually near King Rd? It must be the weakest visually, but if the time stamp logically fits with the time the car left Pullman and time it's allegedly seen at King Rd, it's going to be hard to convince the jury it's not the same car.

JMO

The D wants the video on 270 (MTC hearing).
AT was told in order to locate it, she would have to go look for it by watching all the videos.
IMO the D wants the 270 video to show it is not Bks car.

First alibi submission:
Evidence corroborating Mr. Kohberger being at a location other than the King Road address will be disclosed pursuant to discovery and evidentiary rules as well as statutory requirements

Second alibi submission:
Mr. Kohberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 2022
He drove throughout the area south of Pullman, Washington, west of Moscow, Idaho including Wawawai Park
Bryan Kohberger’s mobile device did not travel east on the Moscow-Pullman Highway in the early morning hours of November 13th

The alibi addresses the timeframe of the crime.
The D says he was not in Moscow (no need to dispute each sighting).

jmo

 

[Justice101]

"I was….I was….I was out stargazing. Yeeeaaahhh, that’s the ticket!"

Yeh, he got caught and they found his phone connected then unconnected at critical times clearly pointing at him.

We all know that stargazing is very weak alibi and there is 0% chance this will fly with a jury.

In my experience, juries are very down to earth and practical and almost never fall for made-up weak excuses like this. The picture the prosecution will paint with all this evidence and circumstantial evidence will be very damning.

That's why I think when AT tries her best unsuccessfully to throw out evidence, when it close to court time and it has mostly failed, BK will either try to cop a plea or just plead guilty hoping for a somewhat lighter sentence. This one is over.

But the prosecution has to offer it and set the rules. The families will probably have a mixed reaction to a plea. But it might be the best thing to avoid replaying this horrible crime again right in front of them.

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Right, but you have to stretch oneself into weird positions to make that 'non-coverage' thing work. We have to believe he went star gazing on a foggy freezing night, inside a CLOSED park, where he'd have to leave his vehicle outside of the gates and run around in freezing weather. Apparently took no pictures of the sky that night, even though he went to so much trouble to break the law and enter a closed park just to see that foggy night sky.

Is this what the D is asking us to believe?
Waiting for more details and to see if the D submits any supporting evidence.
And if they submit supporting evidence, whether that evidence is substantial or weak.
D discovery is January 9th
jmo

And when he was first asked about his alibi, he said nothing about this stargazing trip at this park. That came later, after his cell data expert came onboard. Seems like they created a little data map they will use to cover up the fact that his phone was turned off, imo.

5/23/2023 The P first asked for an alibi
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...st+for+Discovery+Disclosure++Alibi+Demand.pdf

6/9/2023 D asked for extension or exception
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...Extend+Time+for+Compliance+with+IC+19-519.pdf

June 13 2023 The Prosecution asked for the alibi to be submitted by July 24th 2023.
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...Alternative+to+Extend+Time+for+Compliance.pdf

7/24/23 D alibi
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...efendants+Response+to+States+Alibi+Demand.pdf

12/15/23 SR at the King Road home
0.39

4/26/24 Supplemental D response
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...efendants-Supplemental-Response-States-AD.pdf

SR testified in 5/14/2024. At that time, the D was asking for the final CAST report. The P said it was under review for accuracy.
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/042924-Notice-of-Hearing.pdf

When did SR join the D team?
jmo

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Mollie Tibbets case (here on WS) LE relied on her Fitbit information to asses her location, speed of travel, and ultimately her heart rate and when she last transmitted activity.

There was also the case where a husband killed his wife (Connie Dabate), and her Fitbit disproved his story of events that morning.

Technology is helping these murderers get caught thank goodness. JMO

There was an Alexa case too, right?

 

[girlhasnoname]

There was an Alexa case too, right?

Yes, lot's of cases with monitored watches (Fitbit, Apple), home alarms, etc. Technology making it almost impossible to not leave some trace of a footprint.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Yes, lot's of cases with monitored watches (Fitbit, Apple), home alarms, etc. Technology making it almost impossible to not leave some trace of a footprint.

It’s one of the big pieces of evidence in the LISK case too.

 

[INfisherman]

Yeh, he got caught and they found his phone connected then unconnected at critical times clearly pointing at him.

We all know that stargazing is very weak alibi and there is 0% chance this will fly with a jury.

In my experience, juries are very down to earth and practical and almost never fall for made-up weak excuses like this. The picture the prosecution will paint with all this evidence and circumstantial evidence will be very damning.

That's why I think when AT tries her best unsuccessfully to throw out evidence, when it close to court time and it has mostly failed, BK will either try to cop a plea or just plead guilty hoping for a somewhat lighter sentence. This one is over.

But the prosecution has to offer it and set the rules. The families will probably have a mixed reaction to a plea. But it might be the best thing to avoid replaying this horrible crime again right in front of them.

JMO

It sounds like the area has lots of surveillance cameras which is assisting LE with BKs whereabouts at key moments during the timeline. Sounds like that has helped tremendously but also opened more doors for potential defense arguments with potential misidentification or at least more opportunity to raise potential doubt. Note I’m not saying the defense will do as such by any means - seems like they have a long uphill climb for that to actually happen - as if the view is so much better in Moscow vs. Pullman. Riiiiiiiight.

 

[ilovewings]

"I was….I was….I was out stargazing. Yeeeaaahhh, that’s the ticket!"

Yep that's the one- that's the best he can do---bordering on laughable

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yeh, he got caught and they found his phone connected then unconnected at critical times clearly pointing at him.

We all know that stargazing is very weak alibi and there is 0% chance this will fly with a jury.

In my experience, juries are very down to earth and practical and almost never fall for made-up weak excuses like this. The picture the prosecution will paint with all this evidence and circumstantial evidence will be very damning.

That's why I think when AT tries her best unsuccessfully to throw out evidence, when it close to court time and it has mostly failed, BK will either try to cop a plea or just plead guilty hoping for a somewhat lighter sentence. This one is over.

But the prosecution has to offer it and set the rules. The families will probably have a mixed reaction to a plea. But it might be the best thing to avoid replaying this horrible crime again right in front of them.

JMO

I think the State might be willing to take the DP off the table for a LWOP plea with no appeals, but I don't think BK would ever accept that.

I believe BK is anxious and wants his case to go to trial. Having the DP on the table might even make it more interesting to him. I honestly don't believe he has any deep, personal feelings regarding whether he is on Death Row or serving LWOP.

BK could be willing to gamble it all for a possible NG verdict, maybe even taking the stand in his own Defense. He does enjoy speaking...proving to everyone he is the smartest man in the room. <courtroom in this case >

JMO

 

[schooling]

Where was he traveling North from at 2:44?
jmo

The D wants the video on 270 (MTC hearing).
AT was told in order to locate it, she would have to go look for it by watching all the videos.
IMO the D wants the 270 video to show it is not Bks car.

First alibi submission:
Evidence corroborating Mr. Kohberger being at a location other than the King Road address will be disclosed pursuant to discovery and evidentiary rules as well as statutory requirements

Second alibi submission:
Mr. Kohberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 2022
He drove throughout the area south of Pullman, Washington, west of Moscow, Idaho including Wawawai Park
Bryan Kohberger’s mobile device did not travel east on the Moscow-Pullman Highway in the early morning hours of November 13th

The alibi addresses the timeframe of the crime.
The D says he was not in Moscow (no need to dispute each sighting).

jmo

It seems pretty clear (IMO) where they are headed with this. Which is just a different interpretation of the evidence available to us. JMO

Essentially:

1) ya that’s BK at the Pullman intersection, on video that was clear enough for the FBI forensic specialist to identify as a 2015.

2) ya that’s his cell phone pinging in the area of the intersection

3) no he did not get on that highway

4) no that’s not his car on the other side …. thats a 2013 … they only changed it after to potentially frame BK

5) no he didn’t turn his phone off because of the murders but technically it never pinged in Moscow.

if that’s the narrative that they spin with a tinge of conspiracy (IMO) thrown in for good measure. I just don’t see this working out for BK at all.

MOO

 

[ilovewings]

I think the State might be willing to take the DP off the table for a LWOP plea with no appeals, but I don't think BK would ever accept that.

I believe BK is anxious and wants his case to go to trial. Having the DP on the table might even make it more interesting to him. I honestly don't believe he has any deep, personal feelings regarding whether he is on Death Row or serving LWOP.

BK could be willing to gamble it all for a possible NG verdict, maybe even taking the stand in his own Defense. He does enjoy speaking...proving to everyone he is the smartest man in the room. <courtroom in this case >

JMO

He is too arrogant to take a plea deal- I believe he is one of those killers that thinks he is the smartest person in the room

 

[Nila Aella]

It seems pretty clear (IMO) where they are headed with this. Which is just a different interpretation of the evidence available to us. JMO

Essentially:

1) ya that’s BK at the Pullman intersection, on video that was clear enough for the FBI forensic specialist to identify as a 2015.

2) ya that’s his cell phone pinging in the area of the intersection

3) no he did not get on that highway

4) no that’s not his car on the other side …. thats a 2013 … they only changed it after to potentially frame BK

5) no he didn’t turn his phone off because of the murders but technically it never pinged in Moscow.

Agree.
The D does have discovery though, which is more than what we know.
jmo

if that’s the narrative that they spin with a tinge of conspiracy (IMO) thrown in for good measure. I just don’t see this working out for BK at all.

MOO

It will all depend on if the D has any supporting evidence that is substantial.

And I wonder:
If the D did think there was a possibility that the 270 car is his, why would they be pushing so hard to locate it?
If LE thinks it is his car on 270, why are they not doing everything they can to locate that video and use it? Maybe they have tried?
And
Where is the video? It was submitted into evidence per BP testimony, why is it not there?

jmo

 

[SortaSleuthy]

"I was….I was….I was out stargazing. Yeeeaaahhh, that’s the ticket!"

Thank you for the Jon Lovitz - Tommy Flanagan reference.

 

[Justice101]

Yes, the PCA theorizes he may have left the phone at a different location or perhaps turned it off, but at no time does BP state unreservedly one of those possibilities is accurate.


I don't think the defense team's motion to suppress answers the question either. They too are summarizing BP's qualified statements. Cell site location information supports "the idea" he left his apartment and travelled south, and presumably with zero other cell site location data until 4:48 AM, supports his phone being turned off. "They support at 4:48 AM that the phone is south of Moscow, ID, near Blaine, ID."

What will be interesting is where exactly he turned his phone back on in relation to the cell tower.

If his phone was CAPABLE of getting at signal 2 miles closer to the cell tower than when it did. (that is, his phone didn't connect with the cell tower until way after it was theoretically within range), then, by inference.. he turned it back on himself.

I wonder if LE took his cell phone out there and did a test near Blaine coming in from the south, just to see where it might connect.

Actually, I am going to see if I can find the map of the Blaine cell tower and the expected range. if it reached almsot all the way north back to Moscow.. that is something