4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[MassGuy]

MOO

The other scenario is it's not his sheath and one of the roommates.

Make that make sense. The sheath had BK's DNA on it, and no one else's. How does that happen? What is that knife?

 

[SortaSleuthy]

All MOO

The sheath is not a murder weapon. We also assume a kbar was used but we do not know for sure.

We also do not know who the sheath actually belonged to. For all we know it may have been one of the roommates.

This is the type of reasonable doubt which will and should be used by the defense.

I realize some of you have already made up your mind that BK is guilty but we still have a long way to go and the prosecution better have a lot more on BK otherwise I'm afraid he'll get off.

All MOO

<modsnip - rude>

The sheath is for a long bladed K-Bar type knife and BK’s DNA is on the sheath! The cuts and stab wounds were made by such a knife.

 

[CKS]

Make that make sense. The sheath had BK's DNA on it, and no one else's. How does that happen? What is that knife?

All MOO

You see that's the thing. While his DNA on that sheath looks really really bad. It doesn't actually mean he committed the crime. Is it likely? Sure. But it's not like it's the actual knife and we don't actually still know if a kbar was the knife used.

Remember I am not saying BK is innocent. I just see plenty of reasonable doubt in this case from what we've seen.

And the last two hearings unfortunately raised more reasonable doubt for me. We found out all the doors were open, somehow Murphy the dog just chilled all night in a room with the door open and didn't have a drop of blood on him, we found out DM so drunk she thought she might have been dreaming, and the craziest part is that the other two unidentified male DNA is actually BLOOD. Not transfer DNA. Blood.

Sorry I'm just frustrated b/c I want them to convict BK if he did it but from my point of view they have not one spec of evidence other than the transfer DNA.

All MOO

 

[wendy44]

It feels like an eternity until this goes to trial, but I can't wait to hear the defense attempt to explain the following away:

While speaking with BRC13, Michael Mancuso, First Assistant District Attorney in Monroe County, said that when authorities entered Kohberger's parents' home around 1:30 a.m. to arrest him, they found him in the kitchen wearing latex gloves and placing trash in Ziploc bags.

"Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dressed in shorts and a shirt a [sic] wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate Ziploc baggies," Mancuso told BRC13.

Once authorities saw the suspect doing this, Mancuso says, it shed light on a possible reason as to why Kohberger's DNA was not found in the family's trash in the days prior.

"A trash pull that was done days before recovered DNA profiles but not from him, only from his family members," Mancuso told the outlet.

After Kohberger's arrest in Pennsylvania, he was extradited back to Idaho to face the charges against him.

At Time of Arrest, Bryan Kohberger Was Wearing Latex Gloves and Putting Trash in Ziploc Bags: Prosecutor

While speaking with BRC13, Michael Mancuso, First Assistant District Attorney in Idaho's Monroe County, said that when authorities entered Kohberger's parents' home around 1:30 a.m. to arrest him, they found him in the kitchen wearing latex gloves and placing trash in Ziploc bags

people.com

There was an interesting exchange about this during the second hearing, starting at about 40:30:00 when they were addressing the raid on the PA house:

Jay Logsdon: "I guess the point is in that this particular case the state manufactured the exigencies, if they had them at all. The reality is, as they explained in their own affidavit, they're essentially watching Mr. Kohberger as he moves around his house via snipers. I mean, they were quite safe, and there was simply no reason to bash the doors in momentarily after yelling from their BearCat."

Judge: "There's two issues. There's officer safety, there's also destruction of evidence concerns."

JL: "In the case that we cited, Judge, when the claim has been that there's evidence being destroyed, the evidence, what's known to the officers is something along the lines of, hear somebody running away after they announce themselves. That's, it's not typical that the police simply don't knock and announce at all in those cases. They usually give the person the opportunity to surrender, but it's not a particularly long one and in this case they don't do that at all. And the only thing they knew was that he's walking around from room to room and that he has some kitchen gloves on. And I don't think that equates necessarily to the destruction, you know."

Judge: "Well, that's not all they knew. But I won't go into the detail in order to preserve, so as we don't go into those issues."

Also, shortly before that, there's a funny exchange when JL is trying to compare this to Dylann Roof and the judge dismisses it with a "Whoever Mr. Roof is."

 

[MassGuy]

All MOO

You see that's the thing. While his DNA on that sheath looks really really bad. It doesn't actually mean he committed the crime. Is it likely? Sure. But it's not like it's the actual knife and we don't actually still know if a kbar was the knife used.

Remember I am not saying BK is innocent. I just see plenty of reasonable doubt in this case from what we've seen.

And the last two hearings unfortunately raised more reasonable doubt for me. We found out all the doors were open, somehow Murphy the dog just chilled all night in a room with the door open and didn't have a drop of blood on him, we found out DM so drunk she thought she might have been dreaming, and the craziest part is that the other two unidentified male DNA is actually BLOOD. Not transfer DNA. Blood.

Sorry I'm just frustrated b/c I want them to convict BK if he did it but from my point of view they have not one spec of evidence other than the transfer DNA.

All MOO

Again, you're ignoring the phone data and vehicle footage that resulted in WSU developing his name two weeks after the murders.

He should have been able to have been alibied very quickly, yet the case only got stronger when they looked into that. That's how you know you've got the right guy.

What's in these Google, Apple, and Amazon records that the defense is desperately trying to keep out?

You look at him, look at his history, and you realize that he ticks every single box. Problem with authority, problem with women, big ego, aggressive, anger issues, etc.

The desperate arguments from the defense indicate to me that they don't a strong rebuttal to any of this stuff. Pretty much everything we've seen in this case post arrest, has been one sided (defense claims). Over and over, in every case I've followed, those arguments turn to dust the second we hear the prosecution response. We'll get there eventually.

 

[CKS]

<modsnip - rude>

The sheath is for a long bladed K-Bar type knife and BK’s DNA is on the sheath! The cuts and stab wounds were made by such a knife.

We do not know for sure if a kbar was used. Is it likely? Yes, it's highly likely but for now we only assume it was a kbar.

I will wait to hear what the forensic experts have to say to confirm that it was. But you know the defense is going to try and raise reasonable doubt without the actual murder weapon ever being found.

 

[MassGuy]

There was an interesting exchange about this during the second hearing, starting at about 40:30:00 when they were addressing the raid on the PA house:

Jay Logsdon: "I guess the point is in that this particular case the state manufactured the exigencies, if they had them at all. The reality is, as they explained in their own affidavit, they're essentially watching Mr. Kohberger as he moves around his house via snipers. I mean, they were quite safe, and there was simply no reason to bash the doors in momentarily after yelling from their BearCat."

Judge: "There's two issues. There's officer safety, there's also destruction of evidence concerns."

JL: "In the case that we cited, Judge, when the claim has been that there's evidence being destroyed, the evidence, what's known to the officers is something along the lines of, hear somebody running away after they announce themselves. That's, it's not typical that the police simply don't knock and announce at all in those cases. They usually give the person the opportunity to surrender, but it's not a particularly long one and in this case they don't do that at all. And the only thing they knew was that he's walking around from room to room and that he has some kitchen gloves on. And I don't think that equates necessarily to the destruction, you know."

Judge: "Well, that's not all they knew. But I won't go into the detail in order to preserve, so as we don't go into those issues."

Also, shortly before that, there's a funny exchange when JL is trying to compare this to Dylann Roof and the judge dismisses it with a "Whoever Mr. Roof is."

Oh man, I can't wait to learn what he was alluding to there.

 

[Megnut]

Yes, DM had been drinking and may have been interpreting and recalling disparate events through a haze, but evidence backs up her fuzzy memory. Someone did move past her door. Someone who had stepped in blood. Other evidence corroborates the timing.

Perhaps where she erred was in whom she thought she heard and what they were doing -- but that's because she didn't know there was another person in the house, and certainly not a murderer slaughtering her roommates.

AT is pretending that if LE had included all of DM's statements, and not just some, it would have stopped the warrant at the door. Nonsense.

JMO

 

[mmeynstyn]

Redacted Transcripts of last weeks hearing to be released.

MSN

 

[StarryStarryNight]

All MOO

The sheath is not a murder weapon. We also assume a kbar was used but we do not know for sure.

We also do not know who the sheath actually belonged to. For all we know it may have been one of the roommates.

This is the type of reasonable doubt which will and should be used by the defense.

I realize some of you have already made up your mind that BK is guilty but we still have a long way to go and the prosecution better have a lot more on BK otherwise I'm afraid he'll get off.

All MOO

I’m waiting on the trial like everybody else and something may come out that changes how I’m seeing things right now, but I am unable to dismiss the knife sheath as easily as you.
It’s not just about the knife sheath, it’s about the knife sheath with BK’s DNA on it. His DNA shouldn’t be there. Even if one of the roommates owned it, BK’s DNA shouldn’t be on it, in their house, underneath a victim.
BK claims he did not know the victims and was never in their house. So how does his DNA get on a knife sheath, hypothetically owned by a roommate he claims he didn’t know, in a house he never was in.
That scenario does not swing toward reasonable doubt, it swings toward common sense.
Nobody can get his DNA off that knife sheath. It doesn’t matter who owns that sheath…though I’m pretty sure I know….the sheath didn’t kill anybody. BK’s DNA matters and it shouldn’t be there.


Opinion

 

[al66pine]

What's on the Menu at Ada County Jail?

IIRC, I've read in MSM that Ada Co. is serving BK VEGAN meals, as did Latah County.
Some posts suggest that a jail unnecessarily may be PAMPERING or indulging some inmates, including BK, w SPECIAL diets.

First Amendment, Freedom of Religion Issue?
IDK if BK requested VEGAN food on basis of his religion (kinda doubtful imo), so the following may not apply to BK but does apply to other inmates making menu requests based on their religion's dietary restrictions (e.g., Islam laws re "haram" (forbidden) and "halal" (permitted). Judaism laws re "Kasher" or "Kosher.")

Not a Constitutional scholar here, but not likely that an inmate dreaming up his own "religion" would be successful in a suit demanding that a jail or prison provide him lobster thermidor, prime rib, coq au vin, caviar, & Kobe beef, black truffles, etc., as dictated by dietary law of his "religion."

IIUC BK requested the vegan menu that these jails have been and are providing to other inmates. IDK whether these jails initiated the vegan menus for a specific religion population in their facilities (some Seventh Day Adventists, some Hindu?) or other reasons (alternative healthy diet, or environmentalism).

Regardless, if these jails already regularly provide vegan meals for other inmates, seems they're just 'fixing an extra plate for BK' so to speak, NOT INDULGING him w an undeserved privilege.

jmo
(No mentions of specified pots, pans, cookware. )
_________________________
_From Feb. 2023 story quoting Ada Co. sheriff & sheriff FB.
"The majority of inmates opt for what is called a "mainline meal" consisting of meat and dairy products. However, alternatives must be provided for individuals with diet or medical restrictions - such as diabetes or low sodium.
"The announcement said that the new vegan meal program is designed to meet all state and federal nutrition requirements, with the menu abiding by protein, calcium, daily caloric intake, and general nutrient requirements."

Ada County Jail is 'bursting at the seams,' inmate meal programs impacted

The Ada County Sheriff's Office announced in a Facebook post the county jail's plan to consolidate meal programs due to the high volume and turnover of inmates.

www.ktvb.com

From a 2005 opinion in a. case filed by Rock County ID. inmate:
As early as 1975 in US ("The courts have properly recognized that prison authorities must accommodate the right of prisoners to receive diets consistent with their religious scruples.")

Andreola v. State, Case No. 04-C-0186 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Andreola v. State, Case No. 04-C-0186, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

From "IDAHO JAIL STANDARDS APRIL 2024 MASTER.pdf" re RELIGIOUS MENU.
"09.06 Provisions are made for special diets when an inmate's religious beliefs require adherence to particular dietary practices. (M) The facility administrator shall contact appropriate clergy to secure diet specifications, as necessary. In the provision of religious diets, the facility
administrator may exclude such items as those containing alcohol or controlled substances which may threaten the safety and order of the facility or other food items which may create an unreasonable burden to the facility to make available to the requesting inmate. (Revised 12/09)."

The ID. Jail Standards also recognize PHYSICIAN-ORDERED special diets.
"09.05 The facility has a policy regarding special diets prescribed by a physician that are followed according to the physician's written instructions or the written instructions of a local dietician. (M) (Revised 12/09)"

https://www.idahosheriffs.org/wp-content/uploads/filr/2130/IDAHO%20JAIL%20STANDARDS%20APRIL%202024%20MASTER.pdf

 

[jepop]

The whole IGG arguement by the defense is not backed by any court decisions.

Snipped for focus

IMO. I'm sure the appropriate information on how it was done is in the discovery. A profile was made and submitted. It's not the complicated subject the defense is trying to make it. I understand why they are, they've got no way else to attack it but I can't even say, nice try. AJMO

RBBM. Agree.
In discovery IMO:
All str analyses, DNA tests re trash pull, DNA extraction from sheath, various BK swab comparisons, relevant analyses of x3 unknown DNA ( non eligible for codis), the snp (for IGG) profile report done by othram, othram IGG lab reports, the FBI created family tree, names of the data bases the fbi uploaded the SNP profile to.

There may be more IGG materials discovered but unmentioned by either side. Jmo

Sources (from memory): MTC x3(June 2023); Motion for Protective Order and associated responses (June 2023); Public MTC x3 hearing (Aug 2023); JJJ order re IGG (Oct 2023); JJJ order re release of agreed IGG materials ( JAN 2024 sealed), and Amended order ( March or April ? 2024); P supplemental responses to MTC x4 and x5 ( June to Sept 2024 under seal). Public MTS hearings (Jan 2025). All above IMO.

 

[CKS]

Again, you're ignoring the phone data and vehicle footage that resulted in WSU developing his name two weeks after the murders.

He should have been able to have been alibied very quickly, yet the case only got stronger when they looked into that. That's how you know you've got the right guy.

What's in these Google, Apple, and Amazon records that the defense is desperately trying to keep out?

You look at him, look at his history, and you realize that he ticks every single box. Problem with authority, problem with women, big ego, aggressive, anger issues, etc.

The desperate arguments from the defense indicate to me that they don't a strong rebuttal to any of this stuff. Pretty much everything we've seen in this case post arrest, has been one sided (defense claims). Over and over, in every case I've followed, those arguments turn to dust the second we hear the prosecution response. We'll get there eventually.

[Mod snip-no link] There is not any video that actually has BK on camera driving the car nor any footage with his plates. Plus we don't actually know if the 'white elantra' has anything to do with the crime do we? I mean it's not like they found the car cleaned with bleach or burned by fire. Instead, they searched and tested the car and found nothing. Which in itself is a miracle.

Also, he doesn't check every box. The worst thing he's alleged to have said to a woman is, you have good birthing hips or called one the B word. The worst thing he allegedly did on a date with a woman was take her to a movie and tickle her afterwards. There are no reports of BK ever threatening anyone verbally or physically to my knowledge. BK had never had so much as even a speeding ticket. BK obeyed laws. BK was vegan. Not too many vegans are killing people with a knife imo. He had OCD. Again, not too many people are going to risk killing four people with a knife and end up getting other peoples blood on them in my opinion. Going back to the OCD it makes sense he would possibly wear gloves all the time. BK had a female professor in graduate school who recommended him to a PhD program and described him as brilliant.

IMO there actually isn't anything in his history that leads you to believe that he was on his way to being a murderer.

Again, I'm not saying he didn't do it. I'm just showing you another point of view I suppose. I know you disagree with it and think it's crazy b/c no matter what you believe beyond a reasonable doubt he did it. But in my opinion there's plenty of reasonable doubt and not a lot of clear cut evidence.

In my opinion BK surely had a part in what happened but I still am not sold on him doing it alone.

All MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Thank you @al66pine . MOO is that once you are in jail, you have lost your ability to make choices. Pandering to psychopaths, sociopaths, does nothing but increase their narcissistic beliefs that they are better than everyone else and their wishes should be catered to, on demand. BK and his endless "specialness". He "needs" a vegan diet, he "needs" a tablet and computer to manage his court case, he "needs" on and on...

It must just be hard for the families of his victims.

And while I think water and gruel should be the diet in prison (vegan!), I understand that keeping them happy thru food is worth it for the people who work there.

Years ago, I worked as a teacher in a prison. I brought in birthday cakes, because the mixes were less than a dollar, and my girls were learning how to decorate cakes. What made me sad, was how many of my students actually told me that was their "first" birthday cake.

But, BK never lived a life like that, he had every single privilege in the world. Although, I wonder if his PhD plan was just to avoid working. Has he ever actually held a real job?!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Oh man, I can't wait to learn what he was alluding to there.

Yes.
I think the prosecution alluded to these type things last week also, not just about the raid in PA, but the case in general. We obviously don’t know everything.

 

[ShastaDaisy]

That's an interesting thought @Rolypolyoly. In terms of timeline, I think dog barking commences at about the same time as Perp is thought to be leaving, maybe around 4.17am. And imo a dog starting up could be one of the reasons for his rapid exit (fear authorities may be called).

If, as you say, DM may have thought it was one of the upstairs victims on stairs because associations with dog barking, then is it possible the person she actually heard was BK?

Roughly theorising;

at c 4.17am dog is barking, DM sees the masked stranger pass her door and head towards slider. She closes and locks her door. BK exits at slider but then at that moment, or just after exiting to back porch, realises no knife sheathe. He goes back in and runs up stairs, but is too put off by fear of possible 911 responders on way to look further when he doesn't see sheathe on the floor. He runs back down stairs, runs to his car and leaves. Elantra captured by street cam speeding away at c4.20am. All just theorising.

As an aside, I'm not sure that the dog barking captured by audio from no. 1222 ( the house immediately to the nw, with audio device located around 50 yards IIRC from the corner of Xana's room) necessarily came from Murphy. I don,'t think it's specified and moo it's possible there was a dog living at that neighbour's house 1222. Not sure, if that is the case, whether it would alter the feasibility of this theory.

Jmo we will probably hear at trial when that audio capture is evidenced, whether the dog is thought to be Murphy or another dog living nearby. DM herself may testify on that and/or possibly the person who analysed the audio. Jmo

In this scenario; BK leaves through the slider after coming down the stairs from killing MM & KG, walking past DM's room on his way out.

In this scenario when would XK & E have been killed; would they have been killed first? If so that would have been almost immediately after the DD delivery leaving little time for XK (and Ethan?) to eat & for XK to be scrolling on TT as has been reported.

Do we know what food was delivered, enough for 1 or 2? Do we know if XK actually received the food? Was there any direct contact with the delivery person?

Such a tight timeline, It all happened so quickly that it's hard to imagine what happened first or what the original intention may have been.

It's my opinion that BK had stalked the house, at night, on several occasions previous to that 11/12, and was keenly interested in the routines & activities of the occupants.

All just my opinion

 

[CKS]

All MOO

The hearings have shed new light onto the PCA and I suppose for me I am frustrated b/c it creates quite a bit more reasonable doubt in my opinion.

1. Dylan did not say 5'10" or better - she said, "taller than me" (5'8") and skinny. There was no 'athletically built.' Not a match for Bryan, especially since she was unable to recognize him from a photo. In subsequent interviews Dylan said she really wasn't sure what she remembered, and may have been dreaming.

2. Also, that shoe print, which was never matched to BK, was right along the threshold of her door - which is enough off the natural path, and almost stepping on her, that it looks to be her own shoe print after clean-up.

3. If someone did go out the slider, then there is strong evidence of a second perp who exited the crime scene out the front door - there was a blood smear on the railing and the front door was seen standing wide open at around 8am by a neighbor.

4. The glove found in the front lot did have blood which did not match BK - or anyone else.

5. Also of interest is Brett Payne's (he no longer works for MPD,) admission that he only just recently received a letter calling for a hard SWAT entry to the home, when the original order was for a knock and announce.

6. The FBI admitted to violating the terms of service for the private genetic genealogy websites.

7. The PCA mis-stated (according to the state's own records,) the time when BK's phone went out of range, by seven minutes. They did not have the video for that intersection, in that timeframe which would indicate his direction, but instead drew a blue line on a map to suggest he drove to Moscow.

8. <modsnip - not an approved source>

9. Dylan heard Kaylee run downstairs and run back up again. The PCA had everyone in a deep sleep whereby BK could dispatch them quickly and silently - but that was not true.

10. Communications show that they were only able to identify the make and model of the white car from a single image on Ridge (I think,) which was a 2011-2013. Not BK's car?

11. Somehow the dog sat in a bedroom during all of it and never left the room with the door open. Didn't have a drop of blood on him.

12. DM and BF it sounds like were texting each other while all of this was happening. 'If' this is true......did they attempt to text MM, KG, or XC during all of this?


Again, just my opinion and I am not saying BK is innocent.

 

[sunshineray]

All MOO

One theory I've heard is that in part of the world people put their trash into baggies b/c of the bears. Who knows if it's true or not.

My sister lives about 2 miles away from BK's parent's house and I can vouch that she throws their garbage out normally in white kitchen garbage bags. They do not put it first into ziplock bags. It's the style of outside trash container and where it's kept that's the key to keeping bears out and even with those things sometimes it's to no avail. Bears will get into what they want to get into unless sufficiently scared away. MO

 

[jepop]

In this scenario; BK leaves through the slider after coming down the stairs from killing MM & KG, walking past DM's room on his way out.

In this scenario when would XK & E have been killed; would they have been killed first? If so that would have been almost immediately after the DD delivery leaving little time for XK (and Ethan?) to eat & for XK to be scrolling on TT as has been reported.

Do we know what food was delivered, enough for 1 or 2? Do we know if XK actually received the food? Was there any direct contact with the delivery person?

Such a tight timeline, It all happened so quickly that it's hard to imagine what happened first or what the original intention may have been.

It's my opinion that BK had stalked the house, at night, on several occasions previous to that 11/12, and was keenly interested in the routines & activities of the occupants.

All just my opinion

Sorry, I think you misread the timing in my scenario (based loosely from PCA)?

In this scenario BK leaves via slider, then immediately returns and runs up up stairs, at c 4.17am after killing XK and EC. He has already killed MM and KG at around 4.10 - 4.13am.

 

[sunshineray]

We do not know for sure if a kbar was used. Is it likely? Yes, it's highly likely but for now we only assume it was a kbar.

I will wait to hear what the forensic experts have to say to confirm that it was. But you know the defense is going to try and raise reasonable doubt without the actual murder weapon ever being found.

The sheath was found. The sheath that fits, dare I say that was made to particularly fit, a K-Bar knife. The Amazon and/or other online records may firm up the possession of such a weapon by BK. JMO