4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[MassGuy]

All MOO

It's unfortunate but the more that is revealed the more it's a slam dunk to convince 1 juror of reasonable doubt in my opinion.


Again, I think BK was involved but I'm also not convinced he was the only one. Whether he had a driver or he was the get away driver in someone else's car I don't know. I do know that I would be everything I own that BK did not flee the scene that night in his car considering it was tested by LE and they found nothing.

And I would bet the farm on the opposite.

He wears a full body Tyvek suit, with booties, gloves, a hood and mask. As he's leaving the house (there's a perfect spot in the yard), he takes off the complete suit, gloves and all, and places them in a bag. He then walks to his car, and puts that bag in a trash bag.



At this point, it's not even necessary that he have taken any protective measures in and around the driver's seat, but I doubt he would have overlooked this. That area was probably also lined with something to prevent transfer of any blood. He drives to a location that he has already scouted (no cameras), and disposes of the bloody evidence and knife.

If there was any remaining blood, surveillance teams apparently saw him cleaning his car in Pennsylvania.

Historically, these types of crimes are committed by a lone individual. The surviving witness only saw one man. Two killers mean double the risk, as there's double the potential for evidence to be left behind. This guy doesn't play well with others, and good luck finding someone to help you commit a crime like this. I have no doubt they would have found a link to another person if there was one.

This crime wasn't like shooting fish in a barrel, but it was close. Sleeping, possibly intoxicated victims, suddenly attacked by a combat knife wielding man in the dark. They had no chance, and one man alone could have done that.

The evidence shows that's exactly what happened.

 

[MassGuy]

The Judge asked AJ exactly what including DMs testimony was for:
ID and timing.
So it matters to the P.
JMO

Of course it matters, that’s why it was placed in the AA.

 

[Megnut]

No, but it would likely be a wash. She was his upper face, to include his eyes and eyebrows. Any good defense attorney would destroy an identification like that.

She saw exactly what she should have seen, and should not have been able to confidently identify him. She was traumatized, and apparently under the influence of alcohol. They were lucky she even remembered the bushy eyebrows part.

Her testimony is valuable in regards to timing, and painting a bit of a picture as to the events that night. Her description doesn't matter much.

You're exactly. In the dark, under those circumstances, one wouldn't expect a positive identification.

It is important, however, that her description doesn't exclude BK. That's notable.

It's supported by her record of the timing further support by a footprint at near her door.

IMO he will earn his conviction thoroughly.

JMO

 

[ShastaDaisy]

All MOO

It will most certainly come up in trial b/c a 'latent footprint' indicates someone may have tried to clean up the footprints.

Not sure if there's anything to it or not but imo it will certainly be brought up.

Could a latent footprint be made by a pair of sneakers with a covering over them? I am imagining this person wearing either a full body jumpsuit or shoe coverings like you would wear in an operating or clean room or would be worn by professionals before entering a crime scene, or possibly both?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

An encarcerated person should receive a certain level of duty of care. They're in an institution, and their wellbeing is completely in the hands of that institution.

I have no problem with BK getting vegan meals. It's not like he's getting five star meals, he's getting rice and beans and vegetables that are probably boiled to greyness, in the fine tradition of institutions everywhere in the English speaking world. Powdered mashed potatoes and sad grey peas and not a herb or spice to be found.

MOO

I agree with your viewpoint. In civilized countries we don't torture people by way of food just for cruelty sake because they're incarcerated, their conviction and sentencing is the justice.

I wonder if prisoners are provided vitamins and minerals supplements? BK would need iron, B12, etc. Prisoners are already on a restricted diet due to the low quality of what's given to them and also they don't get sunlight and Vitamin D etc. I wonder how many develop long term health problems as a result? Maybe no-one cares but it costs a lot to treat someone once an illness has begun and for those being released, it's best they leave in a decent condition to rejoin society IMO. JMO.

 

[mickey2942]

And I would bet the farm on the opposite.

He wears a full body Tyvek suit, with booties, gloves, a hood and mask. As he's leaving the house (there's a perfect spot in the yard), he takes off the complete suit, gloves and all, and places them in a bag. He then walks to his car, and puts that bag in a trash bag.

At this point, it's not even necessary that he have taken any protective measures in and around the driver's seat, but I doubt he would have overlooked this. That area was probably also lined with something to prevent transfer of any blood. He drives to a location that he has already scouted (no cameras), and disposes of the bloody evidence and knife.

If there was any remaining blood, surveillance teams apparently saw him cleaning his car in Pennsylvania.

Historically, these types of crimes are committed by a lone individual. The surviving witness only saw one man. Two killers mean double the risk, as there's double the potential for evidence to be left behind. This guy doesn't play well with others, and good luck finding someone to help you commit a crime like this. I have no doubt they would have found a link to another person if there was one.

This crime wasn't like shooting fish in a barrel, but it was close. Sleeping, possibly intoxicated victims, suddenly attacked by a combat knife wielding man in the dark. They had no chance, and one man alone could have done that.

The evidence shows that's exactly what happened.

Agreed. That is my issue with so many "self defense" classes. When you are out running, maybe with headphones, and a man is waiting in bushes to attack, he jumps you, you are down, no self defense class is going to make any difference. Unfortunately.

Especially, young women, against BK, with a knife. By the time they realized what was going on, they were probably almost dead. It happened that fast. They were asleep, he started stabbing them, it was over fast.

And I agree, whatever clothing, shoes he was wearing, and the murder weapon were neatly disposed of, into a "Go Bag" before BK got into his car. And disposed of on the way back to Pullman.

BK was smart. If not for the knife sheath, what else put him at the scene?!

 

[Megnut]

We have to watch for quotation marks to see if the witness actually said what the affiant is describing?
Good to know.

So this part might not be her words?
D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. D.M. said she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room.
JMO

I did not say that.

Skinny, slim, lean taller than 5'10
Athletically built but not muscular taller than 5'10

Two totally different body types IMO.
JMO

Adopted language = changed her words.
Using her words would be conveying her description.
JMO

Yes. That BP chose those words to replace skinny, slim, and lean.

JMO

Rbbm

If it said skinny, slim, lean and bulked up, It's find that contradictory.

An athletic build IMO is exactly what slim and lean conjured for me.

He didn't strike her as elderly, for instance. No paunch. Not a body builder. We don't know what questions she was answering either. Maybe she volunteered her adjectives, maybe they were supplied. No, as to his build, was he more athletic or less? More muscular or no? Like others upthread, I myself would describe swimmers, runners, tennis players as athletic. Lean and slim. And while their sports require great strength and they have well defined muscles, I wouldn't describe them that way. 'Muscular' implies some heft to me.

AT is IMO trying hard to discredit a powerful State's witness, circumventing a gag order by doing it in a streamed hearing (one which hasn't even yet met the threshold for an actual hearing) and it's not at trial wherein the witness could speak for herself and the State could and would rebut any nonsense the Defense spins forth. Clearly the State isn't interested in trying this case prior to trial nor indulging the Defense in tit for tat.

It's ludicrous IMO. The warrant didn't hinge on adjectives.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

I agree with your viewpoint. In civilized countries we don't torture people by way of food just for cruelty sake because they're incarcerated, their conviction and sentencing is the justice.

I wonder if prisoners are provided vitamins and minerals supplements? BK would need iron, B12, etc. Prisoners are already on a restricted diet due to the low quality of what's given to them and also they don't get sunlight and Vitamin D etc. I wonder how many develop long term health problems as a result? Maybe no-one cares but it costs a lot to treat someone once an illness has begun and for those being released, it's best they leave in a decent condition to rejoin society IMO. JMO.

Actually, I believe prisoners are given some sort of "ground up" food stuff when they have broken prison rules. It is sustenance, but definitely not "food". Ah, found it..."Nutra Loaf".

Food Behind Bars: Using Food as a Means of Punishment and as a Measure of Control in Prison | OxJournal

www.oxjournal.org

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

All MOO

It's unfortunate but the more that is revealed the more it's a slam dunk to convince 1 juror of reasonable doubt in my opinion.


Again, I think BK was involved but I'm also not convinced he was the only one. Whether he had a driver or he was the get away driver in someone else's car I don't know. I do know that I would be everything I own that BK did not flee the scene that night in his car considering it was tested by LE and they found nothing.

I wouldn't rule out the idea that BK didn't act alone either but I guess we'll all find out why prosecution don't think anyone else could be involved.

 

[CKS]

Could a latent footprint be made by a pair of sneakers with a covering over them? I am imagining this person wearing either a full body jumpsuit or shoe coverings like you would wear in an operating or clean room or would be worn by professionals before entering a crime scene, or possibly both?

All MOO

I suppose but for me I take it as someone tried to clean it up. So you couldn't see the footprint until forensics did their investigation with the amino black. But I may have misunderstood the meaning.

Also, in my opinion I think it's unlikely it was BK's for the simple reason if it was a male shoe size LE would of stated that in the PCA you would think.



All MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Could a latent footprint be made by a pair of sneakers with a covering over them? I am imagining this person wearing either a full body jumpsuit or shoe coverings like you would wear in an operating or clean room or would be worn by professionals before entering a crime scene, or possibly both?

I imaged that 'latent footprint' could mean one where other people have subsequently walked over it.

Has it ever been clarified as to whether other people entered the house in the morning before LE arrived and if so, how many? and where did they tread?

 

[MassGuy]

All MOO

I suppose but for me I take it as someone tried to clean it up. So you couldn't see the footprint until forensics did their investigation with the amino black. But I may have misunderstood the meaning.

Also, in my opinion I think it's unlikely it was BK's for the simple reason if it was a male shoe size LE would of stated that in the PCA you would think.



All MOO

They would have had no idea what BK's shoe size when they wrote that AA. They had nothing to compare that footprint at the scene to.

It wasn't until after his arrest that they would have had that information.

 

[CKS]

They would have had no idea what BK's shoe size when they wrote that AA. They had nothing to compare that footprint at the scene to.

It wasn't until after his arrest that they would have had that information.

Completely agree. But in my opinion if it was say a size 11 which would indicate it was most likely a male they would have included it. If it was a size 7 let's say I think they would have left it out in my opinion.

 

[iamshadow21]

 

[Nila Aella]

• 01/27/2025 Order Regarding January 23, 2025 Hearing Transcript

ETA link

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[Arkay]

How will him residing in Pullman show premeditation? That doesn't make sense to me at all. Many people live in Pullman. Living there is not evidence nor would it prove premeditation, IMO.



His car being an Elantra isn't evidence. It is information. Per the definition you quoted, it's only evidence if it indicates whether a belief is true or valid. His driving an Elantra does neither. It's information. Sure, you can pile on information to make a case, but evidence is information that points directly to the suspect. So for example, HE was driving the Elantra that left the crime scene would be evidence.

MOO

I’m a bit confused.
What criteria are you using to discern information from evidence?
I kinda think it’s a moot point right now anyway. Nothing is evidence until it is entered as such at the trial.

I know I’ve responded previously with my opinion about information and when it factors as evidence, but in light of @StarryStarryNight asking you also to distinguish between the two, I wanted to ask you a sincere question, @BeginnerSleuther.

IIRC, you are a physician, I believe?

If so, I assume you’ve had endless interaction with patients who piled on you with information. Their head hurts, or they have some kind of lump, or they’re bleeding from somewhere, or whatever it may be.

Then you parse through the information you’ve gathered, you do your horses and zebras thing, you run tests.

After you’ve done your examinations and test results, you are able to discern what is irrelevant information vs. pertinent information in order to make your diagnosis.

That’s kind of how I see LE. They run through all the information available to them. They jettison anything that is immaterial but heavily focus on information that could be germane to the case.

Those bits of info that in your opinion are trivial (living in Pullman, white Elantra) are IMO significant, as I posted earlier. Moscow was accessible to him. A white Elantra, maybe driven by many others, still was spotted at the crime scene and BK had one as well. Bushy eyebrows, lean or athletic build, they all add up.

The court provides the “diagnosis” of guilty or innocent.

IMO the DNA on the snap of the sheath is as irrefutable as an MRI test.

Just my opinion and forgive me if I’m misunderstanding your profession.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Is it just my incorrect observation, or does it seem that the defendant in this case BK has either manicured, plucked, preened, or coifed the eyebrows? In comparing some earlier pictures of him in this case and more recent it seems that IMO?

If so, that might be sort of akin to the chair in the courtroom being set low. Likely deliberate too as others surmise? MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Is it just my incorrect observation, or does it seem that the defendant in this case BK has either manicured, plucked, preened, or coifed the eyebrows? In comparing some earlier pictures of him in this case and more recent it seems that IMO?

If so, that might be sort of akin to the chair in the courtroom being set low. Likely deliberate too as others surmise? MOO

Wouldn't surprise me, as we see stuff like that in a lot of a high profile cases. It reminds me of the creepy hand holding between Barry Morphew and his daughters in the Suzanne Morphew case. Image is everything.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Wouldn't surprise me, as we see stuff like that in a lot of a high profile cases. It reminds me of the creepy hand holding between Barry Morphew and his daughters in the Suzanne Morphew case. Image is everything.

Yes, exactly @MassGuy …. and if the case would also tend to IMO lend support to the housemates circumspect description of what she had seen. Maybe one is deliberately trying to alter or modify an appearance or distinguishing characteristic. Such as bushy eyebrows. To alter from a possible identifying feature.

Not switching topics …. but there is another case on these WS threads where an individual’s partially masked or obscured appearance highlights prominent eyebrows. If of interest see the thread for Ana Knezevich. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, exactly @MassGuy …. and if the case would also tend to IMO lend support to the housemates circumspect description of what she had seen. Maybe one is deliberately trying to alter or modify an appearance or distinguishing characteristic. Such as bushy eyebrows. To alter from a possible identifying feature.

Not switching topics …. but there is another case on these WS threads where an individual’s partially masked or obscured appearance highlights prominent eyebrows. If of interest see the thread for Ana Knezevich. MOO

Luigi Mangione was the most recent one. He was wearing a mask when he was captured, but his bushy eyebrows helped give him away while he was eating in a McDonald’s.

Maybe they could start a prison band? “The Eyebrows.”