4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[mickey2942]

Even if I was drunk and sleepy, I'd think sounds of my roommmates being murdered would sober me awake real quick!

Honestly, I would probably think it was some bad tequila shots, and go to bed. No one thinks..."there is a crazy killer in the house". Logically, our minds don't go "there".

 

[LinasK]

Bolding your last paragraph -- it does raise the question and might invite the exercise --

How did the murderer prepare? And where did he error?

How is it that there was virtually no useful DNA left behind (execpt, critically, on the sheath(? What might account for that?

Why did he drive his own vehicle? And why did he park near 1122?

Why was the sheath loose? Or did he have two? One in which he re-sheaved the bloody sheath and one left behind, as a signature, a bold expectation of future murders.

Did he doctor the Elantra? Obscure the license plate? Did he line the interior?

Did he step into or out of coveralls?

Did he prepare his own self? By showering, shaving. Taking steps to shed less, as it were.

I think he failed to anticipate individuals interfering with calculations. XK being awake. With an overnight guest. KG, home with her dog. DM, waking up. If not for that, he might have commit a single murder, at ninja speed, in and out in minutes, nearly impossible to solve.

I think we can break it down.

His meticulous planning, the things he actively did to protect himself; and where it all fell apart because of what he didn't plan for.

I figure he figured turning his phone off wouldn't be regrettable, didn't think LE would ever link him to the crime. He shares that genius with a lot of convicted criminals.

It will feature in his undoing. But nothing like leaving his DNA where he did.

It gave LE the starting point, combined with his vehicle caught in CCTV, to behind to trace his actions before and after, which reveal premeditation and consiousness of guilt both.

JMO

I was just watching a true crime show the other day and the relative mentioned the guy shaving his arms and I couldn't figure out why. So that's why...

 

[MassGuy]

It feels like an eternity until this goes to trial, but I can't wait to hear the defense attempt to explain the following away:

While speaking with BRC13, Michael Mancuso, First Assistant District Attorney in Monroe County, said that when authorities entered Kohberger's parents' home around 1:30 a.m. to arrest him, they found him in the kitchen wearing latex gloves and placing trash in Ziploc bags.

"Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dressed in shorts and a shirt a [sic] wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate Ziploc baggies," Mancuso told BRC13.

Once authorities saw the suspect doing this, Mancuso says, it shed light on a possible reason as to why Kohberger's DNA was not found in the family's trash in the days prior.

"A trash pull that was done days before recovered DNA profiles but not from him, only from his family members," Mancuso told the outlet.

After Kohberger's arrest in Pennsylvania, he was extradited back to Idaho to face the charges against him.

At Time of Arrest, Bryan Kohberger Was Wearing Latex Gloves and Putting Trash in Ziploc Bags: Prosecutor

While speaking with BRC13, Michael Mancuso, First Assistant District Attorney in Idaho's Monroe County, said that when authorities entered Kohberger's parents' home around 1:30 a.m. to arrest him, they found him in the kitchen wearing latex gloves and placing trash in Ziploc bags

people.com

 

[LinasK]

Yes, exactly @MassGuy …. and if the case would also tend to IMO lend support to the housemates circumspect description of what she had seen. Maybe one is deliberately trying to alter or modify an appearance or distinguishing characteristic. Such as bushy eyebrows. To alter from a possible identifying feature.

Not switching topics …. but there is another case on these WS threads where an individual’s partially masked or obscured appearance highlights prominent eyebrows. If of interest see the thread for Ana Knezevich. MOO

Oh I thought you meant Luigi Mangione with the eyebrows.

 

[iamshadow21]

Honestly, I would probably think it was some bad tequila shots, and go to bed. No one thinks..."there is a crazy killer in the house". Logically, our minds don't go "there".

Unless we have an anxiety disorder, in which case any random noise is life threatening, when actually, it's the cat, or the house making random settling noises with temperature or pressure changes, or your housemate making toast...

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

Runners are athletic but not muscular, imo.

BK an avid runner with their typical build, a vegan naturally a lower body mass, so BP is good at observations, imo.

[...]
"Mr. Kohberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 2022; as he often did to hike and run and/or see the moon and stars," the filing reads.

It also states that Kohberger was an avid runner and hiker, but adds that his hiking and running decreased during the school year, but "his nighttime drives increased."
[...]

How Strong Is Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger's Alibi? Legal Expert Weighs In (Exclusive)

Bryan Kohberger — the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students — claims he was driving alone and was outside of Moscow on the night of the murders.

people.com

BK looks pretty thin, gaunt even, in the photos in this article.

all imo

Rbbm

If it said skinny, slim, lean and bulked up, It's find that contradictory.

An athletic build IMO is exactly what slim and lean conjured for me.

He didn't strike her as elderly, for instance. No paunch. Not a body builder. We don't know what questions she was answering either. Maybe she volunteered her adjectives, maybe they were supplied. No, as to his build, was he more athletic or less? More muscular or no? Like others upthread, I myself would describe swimmers, runners, tennis players as athletic. Lean and slim. And while their sports require great strength and they have well defined muscles, I wouldn't describe them that way. 'Muscular' implies some heft to me.

AT is IMO trying hard to discredit a powerful State's witness, circumventing a gag order by doing it in a streamed hearing (one which hasn't even yet met the threshold for an actual hearing) and it's not at trial wherein the witness could speak for herself and the State could and would rebut any nonsense the Defense spins forth. Clearly the State isn't interested in trying this case prior to trial nor indulging the Defense in tit for tat.

It's ludicrous IMO. The warrant didn't hinge on adjectives.

JMO

This is absolutely true. There's a world of difference when you look at a bodybuilder or football player versus a long-distance runner, sprinter, or swimmer. You move into a middle ground with basketball and tennis (jmo, and it's going to vary from athlete to athlete), where many muscles are utilized in performance, and that strength is coupled with agility. There's a difference between toned muscle and bulging/prominent muscle. There are many "skinny" long-distance runners, probably better characterized as lean and/or toned.

When the D has to move into territory like this, they're in trouble, again jmo. Can't agree more, it genuinely is ludicrous. There's no way I think he won't be convicted, he'll receive the DP, and I hope the D begins to posture itself to try and if at all possible-- avoid the DP. If they attempted a plea bargain, and it were to be rejected, and he were given the DP, I'm wondering if a cruel and unusual punishment argument wouldn't be more feasible for them (I have no idea, but I am guessing this might be a possibility). Unfortunately, right now with this type of petty straw-grasping continuing, I don't think they're even considering it.

 

[Gigiky]

It feels like an eternity until this goes to trial, but I can't wait to hear the defense attempt to explain the following away:

While speaking with BRC13, Michael Mancuso, First Assistant District Attorney in Monroe County, said that when authorities entered Kohberger's parents' home around 1:30 a.m. to arrest him, they found him in the kitchen wearing latex gloves and placing trash in Ziploc bags.

"Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dressed in shorts and a shirt a [sic] wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate Ziploc baggies," Mancuso told BRC13.

Once authorities saw the suspect doing this, Mancuso says, it shed light on a possible reason as to why Kohberger's DNA was not found in the family's trash in the days prior.

"A trash pull that was done days before recovered DNA profiles but not from him, only from his family members," Mancuso told the outlet.

After Kohberger's arrest in Pennsylvania, he was extradited back to Idaho to face the charges against him.

At Time of Arrest, Bryan Kohberger Was Wearing Latex Gloves and Putting Trash in Ziploc Bags: Prosecutor

While speaking with BRC13, Michael Mancuso, First Assistant District Attorney in Idaho's Monroe County, said that when authorities entered Kohberger's parents' home around 1:30 a.m. to arrest him, they found him in the kitchen wearing latex gloves and placing trash in Ziploc bags

people.com

I wonder if his family was aware he was doing this

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if his family was aware he was doing this

They just have to have been aware something was up, in general. Even if they didn't see him while he was up late at night doing this, it has to have carried over in terms of his behavior at other times during his stay. This is something you do if you know law enforcement is on to you (I think it's entirely possible he knew he was being surveilled). That had to have been incredibly stressful.

So behavioral changes, and overt signs that he was trying to contain his DNA (maybe wearing latex gloves in odd situations, and showing concern for the trash).

They may not have put the pieces together at the time though.

 

[iamshadow21]

This is absolutely true. There's a world of difference when you look at a bodybuilder or football player versus a long-distance runner, sprinter, or swimmer. You move into a middle ground with basketball and tennis (jmo, and it's going to vary from athlete to athlete), where many muscles are utilized in performance, and that strength is coupled with agility. There's a difference between toned muscle and bulging/prominent muscle. There are many "skinny" long-distance runners, probably better characterized as lean and/or toned.

When the D has to move into territory like this, they're in trouble, again jmo. Can't agree more, it genuinely is ludicrous. There's no way I think he won't be convicted, he'll receive the DP, and I hope the D begins to posture itself to try and if at all possible-- avoid the DP. If they attempted a plea bargain, and it were to be rejected, and he were given the DP, I'm wondering if a cruel and unusual punishment argument wouldn't be more feasible for them (I have no idea, but I am guessing this might be a possibility). Unfortunately, right now with this type of petty straw-grasping continuing, I don't think they're even considering it.

Yeah, I don't think anyone in the world would deny that Andy Murray was top of his game in his time, but he is very much long and lean, not Chris Hemsworth build.

Someone can look fit without looking like a dudebro who lifts.

MOO

 

[INfisherman]

I was just watching a true crime show the other day and the relative mentioned the guy shaving his arms and I couldn't figure out why. So that's why...

If I’m ever a POI for a crime, my search history is going to raise some eyebrows after following a few cases & doing research of my own including avoiding detection, legal procedures, etc.

I know finding out the lengths more modern killers go to, it raises my eyebrows. No, mine aren’t bushy & I do eat meat!

 

[Charlot123]

I was just watching a true crime show the other day and the relative mentioned the guy shaving his arms and I couldn't figure out why. So that's why...

Old-time surgeons used to do it. Not necessarily.

 

[INfisherman]

They just have to have been aware something was up, in general. Even if they didn't see him while he was up late at night doing this, it has to have carried over in terms of his behavior at other times during his stay. This is something you do if you know law enforcement is on to you (I think it's entirely possible he knew he was being surveilled). That had to have been incredibly stressful.

So behavioral changes, and overt signs that he was trying to contain his DNA (maybe wearing latex gloves in odd situations, and showing concern for the trash).

They may not have put the pieces together at the time though.

I think he is sneaky enough to have had his parents fooled. Many parents drop their guard & aren’t as nosy as their kids grow older & some have a very hard time believing their kids might be doing suspicious things let alone criminal acts. Plus do we have much info in regards to him being a consistent liar? I know if either of my sons were going for PhDs, I probably wouldn’t have much reason to pay very close attention to their activities unless I noticed something off about their behavior but a good lie might cease those red flags/suspicions.

I do agree it must have been stressful but he knew what he was getting himself into - the baggies didn’t just come as an epiphany while at mom & dad’s.

Interesting thing to consider.

MOO

 

[Swansee]

Dbm

 

[Cool Cats]

All of discovery is not evidence. Discovery is full of depositions, some of which may not be helpful to the state's case or may not point the finger at the accused (i.e. evidence). It's also about process. How did they find the information and evidence they found? This is why we're caught in a seemingly never-ending cycle of hearings. If it was all evidence, the case would be open and shut in one day without any MTS hearings.

MOO

It is called evidence/discovery for court whether used or not used. Both lawyers and judges can decide to use certain evidence/discovery.

This single-volume hornbook geared towards the law student is a pared-down version of the authoritative McCormick on Evidence, right. Topics covered include preparing and presenting evidence, cross-examination, and the procedure for admitting and excluding evidence. Discusses privilege against self-incrimination, privilege concerning improperly obtained evidence, scientific evidence, and demonstrative evidence. Reviews authentication, the hearsay rule, burdens of proof, and presumptions.

Evidence refers to the information, facts, or data presented to support or refute a claim, hypothesis, or argument. It can take various forms, such as written documents, statistical data, physical objects, or eyewitness testimonies, depending on the context.

2 Cents

 

[Kemug]

I wonder if his family was aware he was doing this

Maybe he's always done it? (separated his trash)?

 

[Boxer]

If the IGG evidence remains, the defense really has nothing to counter with. Could a juror be mad that the FBI found the murderer through a somewhat shady process? Maybe, but he is still the murderer.

As to the year of the car, c’mon. I can’t remember the year of my car. Grainy footage from the middle of the night that shows a little white car, at this point I would love to see the differences between the model years. Are they that far off?

The model years are almost identical.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think he is sneaky enough to have had his parents fooled. Many parents drop their guard & aren’t as nosy as their kids grow older & some have a very hard time believing their kids might be doing suspicious things let alone criminal acts. Plus do we have much info in regards to him being a consistent liar? I know if either of my sons were going for PhDs, I probably wouldn’t have much reason to pay very close attention to their activities unless I noticed something off about their behavior but a good lie might cease those red flags/suspicions.

I do agree it must have been stressful but he knew what he was getting himself into - the baggies didn’t just come as an epiphany while at mom & dad’s.

Interesting thing to consider.

MOO

Appreciate your take here as always, but jmo BK has given his family grief and heartache from early on. They knew he was different and had issues. He had no close friends, he became addicted to heroin, stole his sister's phone, he was expelled from a course in HS because of a serious issue with a female student and finished up online. I'd bet much more than we know of yet.

His poor Dad is out trying to drum up friendships when he arrives at WSU. The family are victims too. I wonder if he ever became physically or mentally abusive to any of them?

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

This is absolutely true. There's a world of difference when you look at a bodybuilder or football player versus a long-distance runner, sprinter, or swimmer. You move into a middle ground with basketball and tennis (jmo, and it's going to vary from athlete to athlete), where many muscles are utilized in performance, and that strength is coupled with agility. There's a difference between toned muscle and bulging/prominent muscle. There are many "skinny" long-distance runners, probably better characterized as lean and/or toned.

When the D has to move into territory like this, they're in trouble, again jmo. Can't agree more, it genuinely is ludicrous. There's no way I think he won't be convicted, he'll receive the DP, and I hope the D begins to posture itself to try and if at all possible-- avoid the DP. If they attempted a plea bargain, and it were to be rejected, and he were given the DP, I'm wondering if a cruel and unusual punishment argument wouldn't be more feasible for them (I have no idea, but I am guessing this might be a possibility). Unfortunately, right now with this type of petty straw-grasping continuing, I don't think they're even considering it.

Agreed. His obsessive running and vegan diet would have helped to keep his body fat percentage low (high calorie burning) and his boxing would have given him core and upper arm strength and endurance, which falls directly in line with DM's description of who she saw. Tall, not muscular but athletically built with bushy eyebrows.

Tell me that isn't BK without telling me that isn't BK. One look at his DL photo sealed that for me. (Along with all the other evidence, mainly DNA at the murder scene = done)

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Also, wasn't he into martial arts? Judo or Karate? If so, that would explain his build even more.

Yes, BK was into boxing which would give him an advantage in core and upper body (especially arm) strength. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Because evidence is supposed to lead you to a suspect. Let me use some hyperbole to make a point.

Let's say there's a murder in rural Wyoming and the getaway car is a red Nissan. LE looks at video and they release a statement saying the getaway car is a red Nissan. But then they find this weird guy they think may be the killer. But weird guy drives a black Toyota, not a red Nissan. So LE changes their statement to say the killer drove a black Toyota. The defense attorney would absolutely have a field day with that because it looks like LE changed their "expert" opinion to fit a narrative that the suspect is the killer, even if all the pieces don't fit.

Now I recognize in this case, it's much more nuanced given that it's a difference in years and not the car itself, but my point is that the timing of the change matters.

MOO.

Evidence did lead them to the suspect.

Even assuming the defence is correct that it was IGG that lead them to realise they had the year wrong, so what? That kind of thing happens all the time. IMO.