4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

BK knew he left the sheath at the scene, big screw up on his part. Being a Doctoral Student in CJ he is well versed in the process of how LE operates. He already knew they were looking to speak with the driver of a white Elantra, his guard was already up before he left Pullman IMO.

I believe he also knew they would be trying to retrieve his DNA. It makes absolutely no sense to me to think he would wear gloves, separate his trash from his families in PA, put in Ziplock baggies and place it in a neighbors bin in the middle of the night. He was in self preservation mode.

Too late smartest (not) guy in the room.

JMO

I wonder why he didn't take more radical action to flee?
Get out the country and take a new ID.
Not easy but would have been his one and only hope.
He must have built a plan that involved, if apprehended, claiming innocence and hoping some people would believe he's been framed?

 

[INfisherman]

Glad you raised this, I've been meaning to ask where the 11 skin cells number comes from. I haven't watched all of the hearings but haha I do recall the twice on Sundays comment. Judge Hippler has a hidden, somewhat dry sense of humour. That was such a great moment if levity for me!

Not asking for you to dig up a link or anything, but just where you heard there were 11 skin cells on the snap of the sheathe. That's news to me.

Does anyone remember hearing that said in the recent hearings? Was it said,?

I was just using the last number I saw mentioned here - I’m not basing that number on any reliable source. Apologies for that, as it wasn’t my intent at all to do so. Last number I recall prior to the 11 was 20 cells, but again that was earlier in these threads & from no reliable source.

JMO due to skin cell count

 

[Kemug]

IMO, from what we have learned about BK's personality and history since he was arrested, he is exactly the sort of man who would want to wreak vengeance for any perceived slight. I believe this is what happened, with such a tragic result.

 

[Kemug]

I wonder why he didn't take more radical action to flee?
Get out the country and take a new ID.
Not easy but would have been his one and only hope.
He must have built a plan that involved, if apprehended, claiming innocence and hoping some people would believe he's been framed?

Or he just never imagined he would be suspected, let alone caught. Tunnel vision, as somebody said before.

 

[INfisherman]

I wonder why he didn't take more radical action to flee?
Get out the country and take a new ID.
Not easy but would have been his one and only hope.
He must have built a plan that involved, if apprehended, claiming innocence and hoping some people would believe he's been framed?

I’m going to guess he never thought that far ahead because he was sure he was going to get away with it. The trip back home to PA may have been an attempt to regroup & then make his slip. Utter speculation.

ETA I wouldn’t have been surprised had he not been arrested, his car would have been sold or traded in.

JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I’m going to guess he never thought that far ahead because he was sure he was going to get away with it. The trip back home to PA may have been an attempt to regroup & then make his slip. Utter speculation.

ETA I wouldn’t have been surprised had he not been arrested, his car would have been sold or traded in.

JMO

Agree. Maybe he was already making plans to flee and hadn't yet acted on them.
I wonder if there'll be any evidence to show this.
He wouldn't just be waiting around like a sitting duck IMO
He must have known the day was coming, what with all the traffic stops and the news having identified the correct model of his car etc.

 

[INfisherman]

Agree. Maybe he was already making plans to flee and hadn't yet acted on them.
I wonder if there'll be any evidence to show this.
He wouldn't just be waiting around like a sitting duck IMO
He must have known the day was coming, what with all the traffic stops and the news having identified the correct model of his car etc.

You know, thinking back on it, & if my memory isn’t slipping down the inevitable slope of old age of senility, I seem to recall the MSM reports of BK being pulled over twice (?) here in IN & let go occurred right around the same time as the Odinism stuff was being raised (I think). I know whatever the link was it involved the Delphi case. I was thinking to myself, "great, how dumb must our police here in IN look now? First this stuff with Odinism or we’ve arrested the wrong guy in RA and now a couple of patrol officers just let a quadruple murder suspect just cruise through Indy without recognizing him. Now every murderer in the country is going to flock here after these stunts by LE." Now I can laugh about it though, but also breathe a sigh of relief that I was mistaken about both.

I’m glad I thought those two things, because it brought me here to research & learn what was actually happening as well as open my line of thinking about how things may not always be as they seem without further research or considering other opinions.

 

[iamshadow21]

This is something that is concerning.
I would say that if BK is guilty of murder, then by nature and type he resembles more of a SK. And killing one girl would be "that" behavior.
But how often do we see SKs attacking four people? That would be a mass killing behavior. Very different. I can imagine killing the second person who by chance ended up there as a witness, but two more people? On a different floor? Kind of unusual. Although God knows, behaviors turn unpredictable.

Bundy, Chi Omega.
Rader, the Oteros.
Ramirez attacked whole families multiple times, killing some individuals, abusing and torturing others.
That's just off the top of my head.

 

[Charlot123]

I've been thinking about the FBI and the use of unconventional genealogy outfits. Keeping in mind that the State never conceded to law breaking, the issue of course is that not everybody on these sites has opted in, but here's the rub -- 1. if enough customers opt in, a family tree will form regardless of the number who opt out. They won't be included. 2. even if the FBI had the ability to wink, wink, nudge, nudge get the company to toggle the switch real quick like and opt those people in to give the FBI a sneaky peek, the violation would be between the company and those individuals. Where would BK have ANY standing in that? Even the FBI, while some might question their eagerness and participation in such a sketchy enterprise, it remains the domain of the company, violating their own terms of service, assuming it's not embedded in their fine print's ultra fine print already.

Interestingly, by my maths, if BK himself submitted his own DNA to one such company and opted the hell out, and the FBI got a direct match anyway, IMO BK, as a civilian might have a case against the company but it would be a civil one. BK, the defendant in a criminal trial, zero standing. But it's immaterial anyway, as I understand the evidence at this point. The FBI didn't match the DNA from the crime scene to BK's DNA as logged into a popular genealogy database, opted in or out. It matched to a relative, providing a family name. And we don't know which company or companies provided that match. And frankly, why wouldn't LE submit his DNA to as many as possible? It's a brilliant investigative tool!

You'd think a criminology scholar would know as much.

But BK thought he could outsmart everyone.

Oh, snap.

JMO

That in general as soon as the idea to use genealogy databases popped into someone's head, and i bet it was years before EARON, there'd be no limits, is clear. After all, if they can be hacked, why can't they be legally entered? And not only them, to think of.

The problem it presents is: 1) for rapidly growing commercial databases themselves
2) for people who opted in to find relatives that would be potentially nice people. To meet with them, to talk, to share photos. To discuss the relationships between our great-grandpa and their great-grandma. Not the people who opted in with an idea that they'd match with a relative who'd get life for murders. There is some unexpected moment here.
But, as long as people have SM, everything stays, same with DNA, I guess.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Bundy, Chi Omega.
Rader, the Oteros.
Ramirez attacked whole families multiple times, killing some individuals, abusing and torturing others.
That's just off the top of my head.

JMO and I am *not* making excuses here but IMO killing four people was his effort to flee the house undetected without being trapped or detained by anyone. He possibly entered not even intending to kill one person but more to 'interfere' with them in the privacy and cover of their own home, possibly holding them at knifepoint, or maybe just hot prowling. Hence his lack of cover, for example not being too concerned about his car being on cameras or his phone signal. I think those mistakes weren't oversights in a grand plan so much as he set out with one intention and ended up in a whole other scenario. He didn't worry about his vehicle or phone signal as he never thought anyone would have serious cause to investigate them IMO.

Same time, IMO if he'd got away with whatever his plan was, it would have escalated into serious ongoing crimes that certainly could include being a serial killer.

And that is why LE didn't politely knock on his door, this is a man who would slaughter everyone, including people who weren't the object of his fixation so at to leave the house. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I strongly believe he was temporarily blinded by the neon sign on the left as he stepped down from the living room. I believe if he'd seen her, he would have killed her, whatever his exhaustion level.

I imagine he was very shocked to learn he'd been seen.

MOO

Does he have seizures? This visual snow, and neon sign = photosensitivity.

 

[iamshadow21]

Does he have seizures? This visual snow, and neon sign = photosensitivity.

I have no idea if he has seizures, but he has a driver's licence. I think it unlikely.

The photosensitivity, yes. My partner has visual snow, continuous migraine visual auras (20+years) and takes a medication that creates visual disturbances driving at night (oncoming headlights). In my opinion, if his VSS affects him similarly to my partner, the neon would have been enough for him to miss her door being ajar. Imagine having a torch shone right in your eyes, then blinking through the aftermath. It would pass quickly, but remain long enough for the roommate to be invisible to him in that moment.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Bundy, Chi Omega.
Rader, the Oteros.
Ramirez attacked whole families multiple times, killing some individuals, abusing and torturing others.
That's just off the top of my head.

Also, the Golden State killer sometimes attacked while others were in the home.

 

[iamshadow21]

Also, the Golden State killer sometimes attacked while others were in the home.

He did, but the original post was specifically asking about households of four, and I didn't know whether he attacked households of that size. I know there were times he attacked the adult couple and left the children sleeping. While that is a violation of the household as a whole, it's specifically an attack on the couple.

By comparison, when Ramirez attacked a household, he tended to attack most if not all of the people in it, including actions like raping the children.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

BK was a former instructor to lower level students at colleges, right? Surely if he had a form of OCD it might have shown in classes he taught. Simply interview former students to see if OCD patterns were noted. Experts could verify as well.

MOO

OCD symptoms are varied and there's no way to say it would show up in classes or tutoring sessions. Lots of people have OCD that you'd never suspect. It's not a one-size-fits-all illness.

 

[INfisherman]

OCD symptoms are varied and there's no way to say it would show up in classes or tutoring sessions. Lots of people have OCD that you'd never suspect. It's not a one-size-fits-all illness.

Respectfully, I do appreciate the clarification & thank you, but it’s taking my post a bit out of context & even clarified in a second post you may have overlooked(?). If I may explain, kindly…

The extent of the conversation was more than the post of mine you quoted & was limited to specific actions which others speculated might be discounted by defense or others as being OCD sympotoms/habits. My response wasn’t a sweeping suggestion that just any OCD symptoms might show up but rather a select few he was doing while in PA, like baggie use, latex gloves, etc.

Point being if it was claimed as OCD, did anyone observe those habits/tendencies prior to the crime? One area came to mind where people would see him regularly was in a class/lecture/tutoring or office hours visit. It was just a thought & I’m certainly no expert, obviously.

Does that make any more sense of it?

Again, thank you for enlightening me with your reply.

ETA clarity/context

 

[jepop]

I was just using the last number I saw mentioned here - I’m not basing that number on any reliable source. Apologies for that, as it wasn’t my intent at all to do so. Last number I recall prior to the 11 was 20 cells, but again that was earlier in these threads & from no reliable source.

JMO due to skin cell count

No, no, that's not a problem. I was just trying to figure out where the number came from. I read in an earlier post that the hearing clarified there were 11 cells, but that claim was unsourced. So was wondering if I just missed a link where this was actually shown to be a fact. Since then I've googled extensively and had a squiz on sm and no one anywhere I could find is reporting this as something coming out of the hearing. So now satisfied that the post claiming it was 11 cells was false info or rumour. Jmo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Yeah, you could really make an argument for either scenario. He's focused on one, and kills the others in the process of finding that main target. Or he's looking to do something big (kill a bunch of women at once).

I have no doubt that he had conducted some degree of surveillance on that house though, and had seen one or more of the victims before.

I lean towards an intentional mass murder, with no main target.

What gives me pause is that even if he was satiated, wouldn't he kill the witness? I wonder if he was just in a rush to get out of there or something.

I lean toward the intentional mass murder too.
BK may have fixated on one of the girls, stalked her even. That’s how he picked the house, knowing it housed a number of girls.
His purpose though was to commit a spectacular crime. I don’t think it mattered to him who was in the house. He sees himself as the smartest guy in the room, and pulling off the perfect crime was the goal. He failed.
This is what I think now, who knows what will come out at trial.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Which is exactly what we all thought about Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson. Just to name two "slam dunk" cases that came to me.

This has been my opinion for years about those 2 cases: sequestered juries on murders that are especially heinous. I think "group think" takes over, and what a strong juror believes is accepted as gospel by weaker minded members. I've been on 4 juries. One was a S/A, with a vegetable peeler. It's so difficult to be on a trial such as that without being afforded the opportunity to share your feelings at the end of each day. Instead you hold all these pieces of evidence in your head, ruminating over them without being able to talk it out. Sequester a jury away from their loved ones, and it can really become overwhelming IMO. They become your "family" and a juror may vote as a block due to the bonds they've formed. Again, just my opinion.
And of course there were other, underlying things going on with both these trials.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

OJ Simpson was about the time that DNA evidence was jsut being used and was "a little over the heads" of the jury that was ultimately selected. Overly technical presentation. Also ,major police corruption (what was the detective's name: Mark Furman???) in the investigation doomed that one. And OJ was a celebrity.

Casey Anthony was another head scratcher I agree.

This one seems more straight forward.. .but what do I know? I think there is still a 5% chance he is not convicted.

With the Anthony case, I think the advanced decomp of poor little Caylee led to a question about COD. Also, the parents already lost their granddaughter and so I feel they protected their daughter as much as possible, and tried to support Casey. A t for sure.