Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847384824866361572

 

[MassGuy]

COURTTV LIVE with Barbara MacDonald.

Seems one other gun can't be excluded according to Barbara MacDonald on CourtTV LIVE and that the gun belongs to one of the property owners who returned around 3:30 pm that day and may have interrupted what was going on.

What does that mean exactly about another gun not being excluded?

Im wondering if it is possible if multiple guns can perhaps leave similar markings or something.

Or...

If that unspent bullet may not be what it seems.

JMO MOO JMT

I need more context here, as this evidence is a very important part of the case.

I know exactly how I’d confuse the jury if I was a defense attorney here, so I’m wondering how this came up, and what specifically was being discussed.

There are countless manufacturers that produce firearms that fire that specific round. This is a class characteristic.

What matters are the individual characteristics, or markings that only RA’s gun could make.

So I’d confuse the jury by talking about the class characteristics, and asking if any other people investigated in this case owned a firearm capable of firing that round.

The flip side of this is that if Allen’s gun has the same individual characteristics as that of anyone else involved here, then the value of that evidence decreases a tremendous amount.

The prosecution needs those individual characteristics to be very unique.

 

[steeltowngirl]

"The defense told jurors they believe the girls were killed somewhere else and their bodies were returned to the crime scene — that searchers saw no bodies or girl’s clothing in the creek on the night of Feb. 13, and witnesses near the crime scene also never heard any screams."

New details revealed in Delphi girls' double murder as opening arguments begin

Lindsey Jacobson/ABC News, FILE (NEW YORK) — Details about the murder of two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017 were revealed for the first time Friday during the trial of the man accused of killing them.

www.wsjm.com

If BG ordered them down the hill - even if one believes the girls left and were returned, then found dead - BG is guilty of felony murder.

If prosecution can prove RA=BG, he should be found guilty.

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

New details revealed in Delphi girls' double murder as opening arguments begin

Richard Allen is accused of killing Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, on an Indiana trail in 2017.

abcnews.go.com

Baldwin questioned the timeline and cellphone evidence in the state's case, holding up a phone to the jury and saying, "Forensic data on these phones don't lie."

Baldwin said the prosecution claims Abby and Libby were dead by 4 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, and their bodies were never moved until they were recovered the next day. He said the prosecution's timeline puts Allen in a parking lot near the trial at 1:30 p.m. but his cellphone data shows he was gone by 2:15 p.m.

Addressing the unspent round found at the crime scene, Baldwin said law enforcement commonly used that type of bullet, but police never investigated if an officer was missing one. He also said the owner of the property where the girls were found owns a similar weapon but his gun was never tested.

 

[arielilane]

@defense_diaries

#RichardAllenTrial UpdateThe hair found wrapped around Abby’s finger had the root and was able to be tested. They identified that it is female. It is human. It is NOT Abby’s. It is NOT Libby’s and it’s not Richard Allen’s.


1:14 PM · Oct 18, 2024

 

[Ravenmoon]

Plus I hope they asked all LE at crime scene before cartridge was found what gun they had, and if it could hold said cartridge I hope they tested them

According to Barbara McDonald....
Where is she getting her information?
I didn't realize that she is an actual insider.

 

[tlcya]

from the defense opening per this report:

The defense attorney also suggested the girls may have gone up an access road, gotten into another vehicle and were killed elsewhere before being taken back to where their bodies were discovered near Deer Creek.
[snip]
Bridge Guy and perhaps others accosted the girls at the south end of the bridge, loaded them into a vehicle and drove away, only to return twelve hours later to kill the victims near Deer Creek.
State, defense deliver opening statements in Delphi murders trial

this theory of the crime is ridiculous. as always - JMO YMMV

 

[steeltowngirl]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847384824866361572

View attachment 538674

See how silly sketches can be? If Gull was not on the courtroom judge’s chair, I’d never know that was her.

jmo

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847329560473587910

 

[MassGuy]

New details revealed in Delphi girls' double murder as opening arguments begin

Richard Allen is accused of killing Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, on an Indiana trail in 2017.

abcnews.go.com

Baldwin questioned the timeline and cellphone evidence in the state's case, holding up a phone to the jury and saying, "Forensic data on these phones don't lie."

Baldwin said the prosecution claims Abby and Libby were dead by 4 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, and their bodies were never moved until they were recovered the next day. He said the prosecution's timeline puts Allen in a parking lot near the trial at 1:30 p.m. but his cellphone data shows he was gone by 2:15 p.m.

Addressing the unspent round found at the crime scene, Baldwin said law enforcement commonly used that type of bullet, but police never investigated if an officer was missing one. He also said the owner of the property where the girls were found owns a similar weapon but his gun was never tested.

Ok I was right about the gun. They smartly tried to confuse the jury, and apparently also fooled one reporter.

It’s the exact argument I’d expect them to make, but if you dig a little deeper it doesn’t help much.

 

[ClearAhead]

For the record the defense didn’t claim that the girls were taken, killed somewhere else and then brought there to dump.

They claimed the girls were taken and then returned there early the next morning at which point they were killed where they were found.

IMO

Your record is not correct. Unless all the media misunderstood, the D indeed claimed the girls were killed elsewhere during their opening statement.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

“The defense attorney also suggested the girls may have gone up an access road, gotten into another vehicle and were killed elsewhere before being taken back to where their bodies were discovered near Deer Creek.”

 

[Ravenmoon]

New details revealed in Delphi girls' double murder as opening arguments begin

Richard Allen is accused of killing Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, on an Indiana trail in 2017.

abcnews.go.com

Baldwin questioned the timeline and cellphone evidence in the state's case, holding up a phone to the jury and saying, "Forensic data on these phones don't lie."

Baldwin said the prosecution claims Abby and Libby were dead by 4 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, and their bodies were never moved until they were recovered the next day. He said the prosecution's timeline puts Allen in a parking lot near the trial at 1:30 p.m. but his cellphone data shows he was gone by 2:15 p.m.

Addressing the unspent round found at the crime scene, Baldwin said law enforcement commonly used that type of bullet, but police never investigated if an officer was missing one. He also said the owner of the property where the girls were found owns a similar weapon but his gun was never tested.

He was gone by 2:15.

More likely that his phone was shut down, put on airplane mode at 2:15.
That makes perfect sense.

 

[MiniMoo]

I need more context here, as this evidence is a very important part of the case.

I know exactly how I’d confuse the jury if I was a defense attorney here, so I’m wondering how this came up, and what specifically was being discussed.

There are countless manufacturers that produce firearms that fire that specific round. This is a class characteristic.

What matters are the individual characteristics, or markings that only RA’s gun could make.

So I’d confuse the jury by talking about the class characteristics, and asking if any other people investigated in this case owned a firearm capable of firing that round.

The flip side of this is that if Allen’s gun has the same individual characteristics as that of anyone else involved here, then the value of that evidence decreases a tremendous amount.

The prosecution needs those individual characteristics to be very unique.

If CourtTV releases these updates on YT and more come forward (different platforms) that attended today you might get a better picture overall.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Your record is not correct. Unless all the media misunderstood, the D indeed claimed the girls were killed elsewhere during their opening statement.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

“The defense attorney also suggested the girls may have gone up an access road, gotten into another vehicle and were killed elsewhere before being taken back to where their bodies were discovered near Deer Creek.”

I have read it both ways from different MSM and this is why we at least need live audio or court transcripts from the trial. we will never get accurate facts with people just having to take notes on what they're hearing in real time and report it later.

edit: and with no cell phones allowed, real time note taking is going to be more difficult by hand or just trying to remember what is said.

 

[ClearAhead]

The defense isn’t going to make a claim in their opening statement that isn’t backed by facts imo

Same can be said for the prosecution. But opening statements are not evidence, that’s yet to come.

 

[MassGuy]

If CourtTV releases these updates on YT and more come forward (different platforms) that attended today you might get a better picture overall.

All set. Someone posted more information about it and it was exactly what I thought it was.

“Nothing burger” seems to be popular here today, and that’s a perfect description of the defense’s argument there.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ok I was right about the gun. They smartly tried to confuse the jury, and apparently also fooled one reporter.

It’s the exact argument I’d expect them to make, but if you dig a little deeper it doesn’t help much.

Well, it confused me, too. It seems if there were a number of others tromping around the crime scene (LE?) carrying the same ammo... is the test so definitive that the bullet must be RA's? It's not even a fired round.

 

[tlcya]

Your record is not correct. Unless all the media misunderstood, the D indeed claimed the girls were killed elsewhere during their opening statement.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

“The defense attorney also suggested the girls may have gone up an access road, gotten into another vehicle and were killed elsewhere before being taken back to where their bodies were discovered near Deer Creek.”

yeah, I've seen it reported both ways. that is the problem with getting reports after the fact with only reporter notes to tell us what is being said.

I get why JG ruled the way she did re media, but it sure makes it difficult for us to trial watch.

 

[MassGuy]

See how silly sketches can be? If Gull was not on the courtroom judge’s chair, I’d never know that was her.

jmo

I guess anyone can be a courtroom sketch artist these days.

 

[SouthEnd]

Ok I was right about the gun. They smartly tried to confuse the jury, and apparently also fooled one reporter.

It’s the exact argument I’d expect them to make, but if you dig a little deeper it doesn’t help much.

I am picking up what you are putting down.

I will withhold clutching my pearls re: DNA + hair, weapons used, tool marks, time of death, data analysis - until we have heard from the relevant experts. ATM all we hear is spin, IMO

All MOO