Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[BUF]

He also pointed out that between 2017 and 2022 RA never sold his car & gun.

But he got rid of his phone that he had the day of the murders

 

[MassGuy]

I cannot even imagine one person being able to commit this crime on their own, let alone someone under the influence of alcohol. IMO

Why do you think one person could not do this on their own?

I see it this way:

BG is armed with a gun. He reveals it to the girls and orders them down the hill and ultimately, to their murder location. He tells them to undress, and they hesitate. He racks the gun to show that he means business.

When It comes time for the murders, he holsters his gun and pulls out a boxcutter. He quickly slashes one of them, and moves on to the next. Now he doesn't have to worry about the other one getting away.

Both victims have the same types of wounds to their necks, likely made with the same instrument.

With the facts here, how do you make two people fit? What evidence tells you that? How do you explain that round on the ground?

 

[m00c0w]

BBM
I don’t think she made up a story that she saw a man that day, with (at the very least) muddy clothes. Isn’t she, however, one who admitted that her description of the man she saw was likely influenced by the picture of BG, since she recognized the photo as being the man she saw that day?

As far as I know, that was an allegation made by Baldwin, not an admission by SC.

Baldwin pointed out that Carbaugh had initially told police the man she saw wore a tan coat, but she later changed her mind after she saw the now-infamous video of the "Bridge Guy," who was seen wearing a blue jacket. Carbaugh said she might have thought the coat was tan because he was covered in mud.

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

The clear issue with the allegation, as I pointed out upthread, is that the whole reason she says she went to police initially is because she recognized the man when police released the photos of BG. Which came from the video. Which was released weeks before she gave her initial report...

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

@FrostedGlass please see below

@shonyakay
Knowing all that, we don't know where group was after SC passed them. BG could have retreated off 300N & snuck past group if he saw them first (south side of 300N, through woods of entrance but that’s risky). He could have waited until they left (likely less than 10min). Group could have gone down trail first, then BG gets lucky again & passes without leaving 300N. BG goes around both Mears & HH through fields to north & comes out NE from where he parks.

This all assumes the P story holds water, for fairness.

JMO

ETA punctuation

Snipped by me: Sorry I missed this part on my first read through of your post. Good point. I agree with you about going around Mears' farm and HHS, I just think he immediately crossed the street when SC drove by him. In his police statement he mentioned he saw cars parked at the Mears' farm when he left the trails. Could be corroboration of SC's statement that the family was gathering there.

 

[Mamamerced]

More details about Holeman's interview with RA:

He said he interviewed Allen at the ISP Lafayette Post following . Allen’s wife Kathy came with him. Holeman said, at first, he didn’t plan on arresting Allen at the start of the interview, but read him his Miranda Rights anyway.

Holeman said they started by talking about firearms and past military experience, and if anything was damaged when investigators searched his home. He asked Allen if anyone borrowed his car, clothes, or gun for long periods of time, to which Allen said no. Allen also denied having his firearm on him on Feb. 13, 2017 – the day of the murders.

Holeman told the jury he told Allen that Oberg’s report matched the bullet to his gun. Allen denied this. Holeman said after denying it, Allen’s “demeanor changed.”

Holeman said Allen did eventually confirm he was on the High Bridge on Feb. 13, 2017. They took a brief break during the interview. Holeman said he overheard Allen speaking with his wife, Kathy, telling her if she asked for a lawyer, they’d let her go.

Holeman briefly explained to the jury his training to know when someone is lying. The common cues he said to look for involved body language, such as touching of the face or looking away. He said there were “few signs of deception” from Allen, but they were “very subtle.”
Source: Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

Andrea Burkhart review of today's proceedings is fascinating and sheds not-favorable light on the investigation, especially by Holman.

 

[EllaMinnowP]

As far as I know, that was an allegation made by Baldwin, not an admission by SC.

Baldwin pointed out that Carbaugh had initially told police the man she saw wore a tan coat, but she later changed her mind after she saw the now-infamous video of the "Bridge Guy," who was seen wearing a blue jacket. Carbaugh said she might have thought the coat was tan because he was covered in mud.

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

The clear issue with the allegation, as I pointed out upthread, is that the whole reason she says she went to police initially is because she recognized the man when police released the photos of BG. Which came from the video. Which was released weeks before she gave her initial report...

JMO

Thank you for your quick reply. I was seriously considering deleting my post, since I couldn’t remember for sure if it was her that got hit with that, or another one of the witnesses. I really appreciate the link.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, the directions are exactly what I said. If BG came up from the cemetery or up the side of RL's property, he would have had to pass the Mears entrance to get back to the CPS bldg.

We talked a lot about how he might have missed being seen by going though the woods on the south side of the road but that would have been really risky considering there were already people gathering. However, that was before SC's testimony.

But how long would they be standing around on that corner? Wouldn't they immediately go the the girl's last known location and start searching? It was nearly dark already.

I don't think they'd be staying there very long. IMO

 

[m00c0w]

Why do you think one person could not do this on their own?

I see it this way:

BG is armed with a gun. He reveals it to the girls and orders them down the hill and ultimately, to their murder location. He tells them to undress, and they hesitate. He racks the gun to show that he means business.

When It comes time for the murders, he holsters his gun and pulls out a boxcutter. He quickly slashes one of them, and moves on to the next. Now he doesn't have to worry about the other one getting away.

Both victims have the same types of wounds to their necks, likely made with the same instrument.

With the facts here, how do you make two people fit? What evidence tells you that? How do you explain that round on the ground?

Plus the hand-wringing by some of the social media cranks about there not being any DNA that ties RA to the crime... There is no DNA tying anyone to the crime, much less more than one person. If the lack of evidence left by one person is too much for the youtubers, I don't understand how they can realistically believe multiple people did this.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

The Interview That Led to the Arrest - Delphi Trial Day Eight

Lt. Jerry Holeman, a detective with Indiana State Police, testified Saturday in Carroll Circuit Court that Allen denied 20 to 25 times during an Oct. 26, 2022, interview that he was the one who killed Abby and Libby on Feb. 13, 2017, and left them in the woods near Delphi’s Monon High Bridge Trail.

wibc.com

"He also said Holeman told Allen that the death penalty was on the table in the case."

I didn't think that LE were permitted to threaten suspects with the DP?? Does anyone happen to know? Not moo -its a question. Ty

I think it was on the table at that point. IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Never have watcged this before.
I am pretty impressed.

This is an excellent video perfectly correlating the timeline.

 

[MassGuy]

Plus the hand-wringing by some of the social media cranks about there not being any DNA that ties RA to the crime... There is no DNA tying anyone to the crime, much less more than one person. If the lack of evidence left by one person is too much for the youtubers, I don't understand how they can realistically believe multiple people did this.

JMO

Two sexually motivated killers acting together, neither leaving any DNA. No.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe SC said she saw this individual for 30 seconds, that’s not a glance or a passing gaze, that is a very significant amount of time to observe someone while you’re driving a car, and she still gave the testimony of the clothing not being the same

She said she was driving 30-35 mph so I have my personal doubts she saw the person 30 seconds.

 

[Vern]

IMO Betsy Blair passes the group beginning to gather at the Mears' Farm entrance to the MHB Trail, then passes by RA somewhere in the vicinity of the cemetary - spooking him back into the woods. He then remains walking in those woods until he cannot remain hidden anymore.

Raises a "question" for me ---- did someone (a car 'witness' etc??) see him once he go back to his parked car? Putting something into his trunk?

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

 

[shonyakay]

Uh oh, no MR given to him either. Part of the interrogation not recorded.

This is getting worse by the minute...

True but RA told his attorney's that he was given the Miranda Warning.

 

[rez125]

Andrea Burkhart (approved source) certainly has strong opinions (IMO)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850200031770366267

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850200037600399378

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850209980382683568

Something is rotten in the State of Indiana. This case will be studied for years.

 

[Vaderman]

Uh oh, no MR given to him either. Part of the interrogation not recorded.

This is getting worse by the minute...

No, it's not. MOO.

 

[m00c0w]

IMO Betsy Blair passes the group beginning to gather at the Mears' Farm entrance to the MHB Trail, then passes by RA somewhere in the vicinity of the cemetary - spooking him back into the woods. He then remains walking in those woods until he cannot remain hidden anymore.

Raises a "question" for me ---- did someone (a car 'witness' etc??) see him once he go back to his parked car? Putting something into his trunk?

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

According to the timeline that's been testified to so far, we know BB's car was seen leaving the MHB area at 2:18pm. I don't think she would have seen any of the aftermath or anything SC saw.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/

 

[m00c0w]

Uh oh, no MR given to him either. Part of the interrogation not recorded.

This is getting worse by the minute...

BBM

Do you have a source for this?

 

[FrostedGlass]

He couldn’t have known the camera was there if that was his vehicle that was captured on video. He either found a way north & fields not as muddy as wooded area or got lucky again & group was gone & he ducked in & out just enough along 300N to not be seen. One thing to note is the fields might not have been as difficult to traverse if winter wheat was planted in those fields. Wheat isn’t planted in rows like corn or beans & if planted around typical harvest time, it will be above ground before freezing. Wheat wouldn’t be dried out, but still mature enough to help prevent sinking in mud.

One thing I do not recall much info thrown around was when the car at CPS was first noticed gone - even if hours later. Not as versed with the timeline, obviously. Was there anything after SC’s car?

Getting headache.

The last time a car was sighted at the old CPS building was just before 2:30pm.
I feel your pain about "Getting headache." Tylenol helps mine.

 

[photographer4]

BBM

Do you have a source for this?

I'm not the OP but it was discussed during this live (which is still ongoing)...