Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[Inthedetails]

<modsnip - quoted post and response removed>

But what really gets me is he waited for them to die before leaving. To put it bluntly, he sliced the throats of two girls and then stayed to watch them die. And then left them out in the elements.

jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I am very curious myself. I would think that if anything, at first blush (if we assume the D only printed the most important 1000 pages of discovery) there would simply be a list of names + phone numbers of people who were in the vicinity that day. If there was any mention of the van I believe it could have been well hidden in the pile of Autopsy reports, digital evidence, interview printouts and KAK info that I am guessing would be front and centre in the discovery.

All MOO

I don't think the Defense even knew themselves of the van and BW while providing those first 1,000. If they were aware they wouldn't have had to subpoena him on the stand in their grand and theatrical way of doing things.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

I also wondered about this - cold water, plus fear, plus drinking. (At one point I wondered if his conscience prevented him, but I no longer think so.)

But what really gets me is he waited for them to die before leaving. To put it bluntly, he sliced the throats of two girls and then stayed to watch them die. And then left them out in the elements.

jmo

Replying to myself...

I am no longer thinking the tree limbs on the body where a way to "undo" the crime but purely to cover up the carnage he committed. He was not remorseful, imo, but went through minimal motions to cover up his dirt.

He walked away and lived his life. He said that.

jmo

 

[flashy09]

Well if his confession isn't true he made a damn good job of fitting all the pieces together to produce a scenario that fits

Especially for someone supposedly in psychosis! What an organized, savvy confession to link Libby's elevation change to the van driving by.

 

[Skigh]

I don't think the Defense even knew themselves of the van and BW while providing those first 1,000. If they were aware they wouldn't have had to subpoena him on the stand in their grand and theatrical way of doing things.

JMO

If they knew ,they would have tried their hardest to present BW as the culprit. Or maybe their ludicrous story of the girls being driven away and then returned was the defence attempting to incriminate BW .

 

[mrjitty]

Was the van on the dirt road in the discovery?

This seems important to me. I would think that needed to be in discovery because if the van driver saw someone, then that would be evidence for the prosecution if he didn't see anyone, then the defense could use that (somewhat) to their advantage.

Obviously, if it was not in discovery, then this is terribly damaging to the defense if RA mentioned that to the psychologist in his confession but that information was not privy to him in the discovery.

even if it is it is wildly damaging unless you think RA dug out this fact out to validate his false confession. it just all gets a bit obscure for me.

 

[Megnut]

This will break your heart.

RA heard/saw the white van.

So did Abby and Libby.



JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO The van interruption made them crossed the creek. Then at the crime scene from 2:35 until 3:30 we don't know what happened. Looks to me RA is still downplaying his crime. We don't now if he spent some time trying SA and he couldn't "perfom" after crossing the creek, if he killed them right away, if he spend some time thinking how he would escape without anyone seeing him, etc.

Yes! RA is trying to minimize his role, although how in the heck you can even attempt to minimize the brutal murders is beyond me. I think the Van and noise is what forced RA to cross the creek with the girls when he had probably planned on doing his deeds DTH right in that tucked away spot before you actually cross the creek. Things went off script after that IMO. He lost control over the situation and maybe one or both of the girls.

Libbys phone stopped showing movement at 2:32 pm but that doesn't mean it wasn't lying idle under Abby or just hidden under Libby's other shoe. RA did something at that scene from 2:32 until SC saw him muddy and bloody walking down Old County Road N300 at 3:57 pm. That's a long time IMO.

I've wondered if RA could even perform in his relationship with his own wife. He could have needed alcohol and certain types of taboo material to get wound up. You just don't go from having lunch with the family to murdering 2 teenage girls off the cuff. Nope, RA has had this sick fantasy in his mind for a long time IMO.

As always, JMO

 

[SouthEnd]

even if it is it is wildly damaging unless you think RA dug out this fact out to validate his false confession. it just all gets a bit obscure for me.

100%. RA is either in the middle of a psychotic break or a super sleuth that managed to go through all discovery and extrapolate pretty much the only scenario that would make all pieces fit. The leap is too wide, IMO.

And even if the DT manages to attack Dr W and her true crime interest... what? She is some kind of mastermind that just by listening to true crime pods, that back then had barely any mentions of BW, much less the detailed timeline we learned in the 3 day hearing, she put everything together, cell phone data, elevation, timelines, and managed to pinpoint when and how BW's and RA's paths crossed, and then hypnotised RA so he would repeat her theory back to her??

This confession of RA's checks every single box and answers questions I never thought we'd get answered.

A chaotic chancer who got too lucky, until his luck ran out.

All MOO.

Justice for Abby and Libby, soon.

 

[Justice101]

Yes! RA is trying to minimize his role, although how in the heck you can even attempt to minimize the brutal murders is beyond me. I think the Van and noise is what forced RA to cross the creek with the girls when he had probably planned on doing his deeds DTH right in that tucked away spot before you actually cross the creek. Things went off script after that IMO. He lost control over the situation and maybe one or both of the girls.

Libbys phone stopped showing movement at 2:32 pm but that doesn't mean it wasn't lying idle under Abby or just hidden under Libby's other shoe. RA did something at that scene from 2:32 until SC saw him muddy and bloody walking down Old County Road N300 at 3:57 pm. That's a long time IMO.

I've wondered if RA could even perform in his relationship with his own wife. He could have needed alcohol and certain types of taboo material to get wound up. You just don't go from having lunch with the family to murdering 2 teenage girls off the cuff. Nope, RA has had this sick fantasy in his mind for a long time IMO.

As always, JMO

I think he was abruptly interrupted by the sound of the van coming, quickly forced the girls across the creek and probably saw the van only when they were in the process of crossing the creek.

 

[Elley Mae]

Possible that girls took advantage of the van being close and crossed the creek thinking RA wouldnt shot them with a witness that close, could be why he used knife/box cutter.

Jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes! RA is trying to minimize his role, although how in the heck you can even attempt to minimize the brutal murders is beyond me. I think the Van and noise is what forced RA to cross the creek with the girls when he had probably planned on doing his deeds DTH right in that tucked away spot before you actually cross the creek. Things went off script after that IMO. He lost control over the situation and maybe one or both of the girls.

Libbys phone stopped showing movement at 2:32 pm but that doesn't mean it wasn't lying idle under Abby or just hidden under Libby's other shoe. RA did something at that scene from 2:32 until SC saw him muddy and bloody walking down Old County Road N300 at 3:57 pm. That's a long time IMO.

I've wondered if RA could even perform in his relationship with his own wife. He could have needed alcohol and certain types of taboo material to get wound up. You just don't go from having lunch with the family to murdering 2 teenage girls off the cuff. Nope, RA has had this sick fantasy in his mind for a long time IMO.

As always, JMO

I'd like to know more about the visit with his family that morning. Why was he so against having lunch with them? What's off-putting about going out to lunch on a Monday afternoon, especially as nice of a day as that one was with warm, easy temps?

Sure, it's possible lunch with family bored him, but seems like something a person would go along with rather than skip lunch and drink beer instead. Was he always uncooperative with them?

Was there a specific reason both he and his sibling met with Mom that morning? Was there a conversation that upset him?

And how do you go from visiting with family in the morning to murder in the afternoon....and then go on with life.

We don't know that much about RA, but what little we do know seems so pathetic, self-centered, and empty.

jmopinion

 

[lji]

Thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198'

Feb 4, 2024

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S...

• Tricia
• Replies: 1,147
• Forum: On-Trial

• 

This thread starts the trial.

Amazing, thank you so much for that! It’s much appreciated

 

[Inthedetails]

Possible that girls took advantage of the van being close and crossed the creek thinking RA wouldnt shot them with a witness that close, could be why he used knife/box cutter.

Jmo

Could be, but I would expect they would want to go TOWARD the noise, not away from it...which might be the reason he directed them to the water. He was moving away from the van.

jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

I have in my notes that he is being held without bond. Did that change somewhere along the way?? TIA! Got to keep my notes straight! LOL!

DELPHI, Ind. — The man accused of killing Abby Williams and Libby German below the Monon High Bridge east of Delphi on Feb. 13, 2017, is being held on two counts of felony murder with no bond.

Previously, court records showed a $20 million bond had been issued but both the sheriff’s department and the Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office report there is no bond. No answer has been given at this time as to why a bond was listed.

Delphi murder suspect held with no bond

EDITOR’S NOTE: Despite court records showing a judge issuing a $20 million bond for Richard Allen, both Carroll County sheriff and prosecutor state that no bond has been issued for Allen. No …

fox59.com

 

[SouthEnd]

Yes! RA is trying to minimize his role, although how in the heck you can even attempt to minimize the brutal murders is beyond me. I think the Van and noise is what forced RA to cross the creek with the girls when he had probably planned on doing his deeds DTH right in that tucked away spot before you actually cross the creek. Things went off script after that IMO. He lost control over the situation and maybe one or both of the girls.

Libbys phone stopped showing movement at 2:32 pm but that doesn't mean it wasn't lying idle under Abby or just hidden under Libby's other shoe. RA did something at that scene from 2:32 until SC saw him muddy and bloody walking down Old County Road N300 at 3:57 pm. That's a long time IMO.

I've wondered if RA could even perform in his relationship with his own wife. He could have needed alcohol and certain types of taboo material to get wound up. You just don't go from having lunch with the family to murdering 2 teenage girls off the cuff. Nope, RA has had this sick fantasy in his mind for a long time IMO.

As always, JMO

100% agreed. I was already curious re: ED because of the high cholesterol, alcohol, heart attacks, antidepressants if he was taking them back then etc. Add the stressor of hearing the van, and it is a perfect, terrible storm to take out his frustrations on the most innocent humans.

PS: I don't think he will ever go into details of what exactly he did to them. I think a part of him is both minimizing it (oh I gave them the kindness of ending their suffering... Absolute sickness!) and also his ego hurts for not being to perform as he wanted. What was interrupted by the van, IMO, was his fantasy of absolute control. Everything that happened afterwards was a sad, pathetic man's chaotic attempts to regain control and avoid responsibility for his sick actions. I hope the jury sees it for what it is...

All MOO

 

[Megnut]

RA says he didn't want them to suffer. They suffered mightily and he's just trying to do damage control where the damage is already done and it's damning. It's reminiscent to me of BrianLaundrie's written "confession", where he blames Gabby's death on an accidental head injury, after which he strangled her to death manually to prevent her suffering.

Make no mistake. RA terrorized those little girls and then slashed their throats and watched them bleed out.

He watched them suffer.

Ugly truth.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

100% agreed. I was already curious re: ED because of the high cholesterol, alcohol, heart attacks, antidepressants if he was taking them back then etc. Add the stressor of hearing the van, and it is a perfect, terrible storm to take out his frustrations on the most innocent humans.

PS: I don't think he will ever go into details of what exactly he did to them. I think a part of him is both minimizing it (oh I gave them the kindness of ending their suffering... Absolute sickness!) and also his ego hurts for not being to perform as he wanted. What was interrupted by the van, IMO, was his fantasy of absolute control. Everything that happened afterwards was a sad, pathetic man's chaotic attempts to regain control and avoid responsibility for his sick actions. I hope the jury sees it for what it is...

All MOO

I don't think he'll ever reveal the details because he doesn't want his wife to know and because it will make him an even bigger target in prison.

I hate he has control over the scene, in the sense he has info nobody else has.

jmo

 

[Boxer]

100%. RA is either in the middle of a psychotic break or a super sleuth that managed to go through all discovery and extrapolate pretty much the only scenario that would make all pieces fit. The leap is too wide, IMO.

And even if the DT manages to attack Dr W and her true crime interest... what? She is some kind of mastermind that just by listening to true crime pods, that back then had barely any mentions of BW, much less the detailed timeline we learned in the 3 day hearing, she put everything together, cell phone data, elevation, timelines, and managed to pinpoint when and how BW's and RA's paths crossed, and then hypnotised RA so he would repeat her theory back to her??

This confession of RA's checks every single box and answers questions I never thought we'd get answered.

A chaotic chancer who got too lucky, until his luck ran out.

All MOO.

Justice for Abby and Libby, soon.

Yes. That seizing a chance, it is what I have thought of the nature of crime from the beginning. The feeling is...shoplifting.
Just that element of noticing that no one is noticing then going all in on the apparent opportunity.

 

[Justice101]

100% agreed. I was already curious re: ED because of the high cholesterol, alcohol, heart attacks, antidepressants if he was taking them back then etc. Add the stressor of hearing the van, and it is a perfect, terrible storm to take out his frustrations on the most innocent humans.

PS: I don't think he will ever go into details of what exactly he did to them. I think a part of him is both minimizing it (oh I gave them the kindness of ending their suffering... Absolute sickness!) and also his ego hurts for not being to perform as he wanted. What was interrupted by the van, IMO, was his fantasy of absolute control. Everything that happened afterwards was a sad, pathetic man's chaotic attempts to regain control and avoid responsibility for his sick actions. I hope the jury sees it for what it is...

All MOO

the sudden fright of having someone see him when he thought he had made the perfect crime trapping them at the end of the bridge.

I still think he wanted to take them down stream under the bridge to where that other small tributary comes in an is very isolated. He could then go down stream more and cross back across Deer Creek and up the hill across the trail back to his car.