Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[Inthedetails]

I will never understand him confessing and the person he trusted most in the world just completely dismissing him.

Moo

To be fair, what a tremendous blow it was to HER. I don't think anyone of us would know how to react to our lives blowing up like that, and I think it's too much to ask for someone in such a vulnerable spot to accept devastating news in any way other than self-preservation. There is a reason people confess to clergy, therapists, etc. It's a burden to hear confessions, even if we love the person telling them. I can understand panic and denial in that situation.

jmo

 

[Myvice]

I don’t know how to snip a post so maybe mods can help me out.

To answer your last question -yes there are very serious issues about whether RA is receiving a fair trial. Your observations are on point!

The nice thing is that we have appeals courts so if all the attorneys are thinking RA isn't getting a fair trial surely an appeals court will rectify the situation. MOo

 

[minor4th]

But we see witnesses identifying suspects on video for instance, all the time.

I realize that an image is much more solid evidence than something people can see, but wouldn’t that be a similar type of thing.

I’m talking about his testimony that BG and RA voice are the same.

 

[shonyakay]

I must have missed it... did we have a confession on why he redressed them?

It wasn't testified to that they were redressed. Abby was dressed before her fatal injury.

 

[fred&edna]

Confirmation bias, possibly. I don’t think a lay witness should be able to give that kind of testimony. And I don’t think the detectives should have been allowed to give their interpretation of what was said and heard on the cell phone video. That is quite irregular and highly prejudicial.

I thought a layperson could give their opinion based on personal knowledge. There's often an objection by defense but I think it's allowable. I mean, their opinion isn't based on technical or medical etc background.

jm (not lawyer) o

 

[acehard]

oh boy

#UPDATE: About 20 minutes into the afternoon session of the Delphi trial there’s been a hiccup of some kind.Started when Prosecutor McLeland asked the witness about a video of Mr. Allen in the Cass County Jail where he apparently became irate and was banging on his cell door.

The witness, Master Trooper Harshman, viewed the video over lunch. It apparently has Mr. Allen saying “I’m going to kill you” to the guards. Defense Attorney, Brad Rozzi objected, and said the video was not in discovery.There was a sidebar with Judge Gull.

When they returned from their sidebar Judge Gull sent the jury out. It appears as though she is giving the defense team time to review the video. We’ll see what happens next, court reconvenes at 2:15 PM

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852048681190437142

Ooh sneaky! I wish we could watch the trial :/

 

[vinayd]

Prosecution playing dirty trying to admit evidence that hasn’t been given to defense.

sounds like it's "new" evidence. I thought discovery was ongoing but IANAL.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

Denial, legitimately, and dare I say expected.

Here in NY we have the Long Island Serial Killer. Lots of bodies and torture, and his wife says that she "gives him the benefit of the doubt". Denial, for sure.

 

[zh0r4]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

The prosecution plays a call from June 11, 2023 between Richard and Kathy. Allen says “I did it. Kathy I did it. Do you still love me?” Kathy says “yes dear but you didn’t do it. Why do you say that? Why do you say it?”

Allen says “I don’t want to upset you.” Kathy tells him she is already upset. Allen says he feels like he’s lost his mind. Kathy says “you can’t call me and talk like this ok?” Allen says “I’m so sorry baby.” Kathy tells him she cannot talk to him right now. Allen says “I didn’t want to do this, honey I’m so sorry. You aren’t going to do any to yourself ok. Probably going to have to kill myself now.”

Kathy says “Stop. You can’t call me and talk like this.” Allen asks “why are you so mad at me?” She responds “I’m not mad, I’m upset.” Allen says “can’t tell you what’s been going through my mind, feel like I’m already in hell. I don’t understand what’s going on.” Kathy says “neither do I.”

He also said he killed his family and best friend, who are still alive. Dr Wala said she thought that wasn’t a literal statement but his confessions re: Abby and Libby were. I wonder how she differentiated-were they all the same day? How far apart were the statements?

 

[BUF]

I don’t know how to snip a post so maybe mods can help me out.

To answer your last question -yes there are very serious issues about whether RA is receiving a fair trial. Your observations are on point!

Not a mod, but maybe I can help.

Just highlight the section you want, then a bubble will pop up, hit reply

 

[MassGuy]

I’m talking about his testimony that BG and RA voice are the same.

He apparently said he believed they were the same, not that they were the same. Which is what my argument is based on.

The “Bridge Guy” video from Libby German’s phone was again played in court. Harshman testified that he believed the voice from the video was Allen’s.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/i-did-it-do-you-still-love-me-jurors-hear-allens-phone-call-confessions-in-delphi-murders-trial/

 

[gremlin444]

@MaxLewisTV

Delphi Murders Trial Day 12 Lunch Update:

-He found out Brad Weber owned a van and spoke with Weber
-Harshman believes Weber was driving up his driveway around 2:30 that afternoon which would match up with the confession
-Harshman said Weber’s van wasn’t mentioned in previous reports

-During cross, Brad Rozzi said that “Van” was mentioned hundreds of times in discovery which Allen would’ve received
-Rozzi asked if Harshman believed Weber was credible and he said yes
-Defense indicated yesterday that they might have evidence to contradict Weber’s story

And now more details from fox59---the "hundreds of times" for van....are in the thousands of tips....Rozzi is only talking about literally the word "van"...he is not specifically referring to information directly related to BW and his van.

*sigh*

I hate how misleading that is.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/i-did-it-do-you-still-love-me-jurors-hear-allens-phone-call-confessions-in-delphi-murders-trial/

"During cross-examination, Rozzi noted there were 14,000 tips in the Delphi case and said there were numerous references—perhaps hundreds—to white vans in evidence turned over during discovery."

I'm sure RA went and read all 14,000 tips.

 

[minor4th]

The nice thing is that we have appeals courts so if all the attorneys are thinking RA isn't getting a fair trial surely an appeals court will rectify the situation. MOo

I hope so.

I thought a layperson could give their opinion based on personal knowledge. There's often an objection by defense but I think it's allowable. I mean, their opinion isn't based on technical or medical etc background.

jm (not lawyer) o

the thing is - a jury doesn’t need someone to tell them what is said on a recording they’re listening to themselves. The recording speaks for itself and witnesses should not be allowed to influence what they can hear for themselves.

 

[vls12345]

My best guess would be because Harshman was the one detective assigned to listen to hundreds upon hundreds of Allen's phone calls while incarcerated. If anyone knows Richard Allen's voice, (besides people who know him) it's him.

And he would be especially familiar with how RA's voice sounds on recordings.

 

[MassGuy]

This one is the most compelling of the bunch. Seems rational here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852054487860391946

 

[minor4th]

He apparently said he believed they were the same, not that they were the same. Which is what my argument is based on.

The “Bridge Guy” video from Libby German’s phone was again played in court. Harshman testified that he believed the voice from the video was Allen’s.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/i-did-it-do-you-still-love-me-jurors-hear-allens-phone-call-confessions-in-delphi-murders-trial/

I’m just saying, that is typically not allowed, especially since the jurors are listening to the same recordings the detective listened to. They can decide for themselves what they hear and that shouldn’t be influenced by a detective’s opinion.

 

[TLobo]

He’s not an audiologist, so yes he’s a lay witness in that regard.

I've never heard of an audiologist being professionally trained in voice recognition and comparison. They are trained in testing hearing and fitting and adjusting hearing-related devices.

Not that I know who would be that expert...maybe a very specialized PhD SLP/voice scientist with access to fancy spectrogram programs. IMO as a speech and hearing science "professional"-turned-stay-at-home-mom.

 

[minor4th]

I've never heard of an audiologist being professionally trained in voice recognition and comparison. They are trained in testing hearing and fitting and adjusting hearing-related devices.

Not that I know who would be that expert...maybe a very specialized PhD SLP/voice scientist with access to fancy spectrogram programs. IMO as a speech and hearing science "professional"-turned-stay-at-home-mom.

Ok, my bad. Audiologist maybe wasn’t the right term. Someone who could scientifically compare the sounds - that’s what I’m talking about.

 

[Salah11]

To be fair, what a tremendous blow it was to HER. I don't think anyone of us would know how to react to our lives blowing up like that, and I think it's too much to ask for someone in such a vulnerable spot to accept devastating news in any way other than self-preservation. There is a reason people confess to clergy, therapists, etc. It's a burden to hear confessions, even if we love the person telling them. I can understand panic and denial in that situation.

jmo

I don’t see how she couldn’t of know when you
look at BG and the way he dressed day to day after he got arrested. All the alcohol abuse and mental health issues for a decade. It must of been an incredibly toxic environment for years and years. He didn’t just wake up one day and decide to kill two teenage girls.

IMO

 

[Notthisshipsister]

I must have missed it... did we have a confession on why he redressed them?

I wonder if it was that he saw what he had done and stupidly thought that if he dressed them, maybe nobody would notice the girls as readily as if they were naked. Or that he dressed them, telling himself what a good guy he was to not leave them exposed in the woods. I missed it and I am trying to catch up-- did any of the clothes have blood on them?