Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[drsleuth]

now06.14 BST
Patterson asked about lies in messages about medical appointments

A text message from Gail to Patterson on the same day is shown to the court. It said:

“Hi Erin. Just wondering how you got on at your appointment today? Love Gail and Don.”

Patterson replied the next day - 29 June 2023 - and said the appointment “went ok”. She also said she had a needle biopsy of the lump and would return for an MRI the following week.

Patterson agrees this was a lie.

“I didn’t have an appointment and I didn’t have a needle biopsy,” she says.

She agrees she also did not have a scheduled MRI appointment.

Rogers asks if Patterson anticipated Gail would convey the information about her medical appointments to Simon.

“The answer to that is no because I wouldn’t expect her to tell him any of that,” Patterson says.

Erin Patterson trial day 27 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gavel Rash]

Let’s hope the prosecution can come up with hard tangible evidence, cause this is turning into a bit of a circus of ‘perhaps I lied and didn’t mean to and who knows what I did or didn’t do cause I can’t recall’ and unless there is clear fact evidence of placing the death caps in the beef Wellington then it’s all assumption.

Erin Patterson appears to have the steel of a psychopath

 

[MrJ]

SO IAN IS A LIAR NOW?

Key Event
Just now
Erin Patterson denies telling lunch guests she had cancer

By Joseph Dunstan

Dr Rogers asks Erin if she told people at the beef Wellington lunch that she had cancer and Erin denies she did.

"I can't remember the precise words but I do know what I was trying to communicate was that ... that I was undergoing investigations around ovarian cancer and might need treatment in that regard in the future," Erin says.

"I can't say that that was the specific words that I used but ... that was what I was meaning to communicate."

Dr Rogers says Ian Wilkinson testified that Erin told the group she was concerned about telling the children.

Erin says she recalls saying she "didn't want to tell" the children about her supposed health issue.

But she repeats that she "did not" tell the guests she had cancer and says she doesn't believe she said the things that Mr Wilkinson recalled her saying in his evidence.

 

[drsleuth]

1 minute ago - 03:17 PMMax Corstorphan

Patterson claims she ‘did not’ tell lunch guests she had cancer​

Ms Patterson claims that when she told Gail Patterson about her biopsy and upcoming MRI, she was not yet planning the July 29, 2023, lunch.

She accepted that she sent a message saying she might tell her more “in person”, but claimed this was not related to her later planned lunch.

“Did you tell people at the lunch you had cancer?” the prosecution asked.

“I did not,” Ms Patterson replied.

Ms Patterson said she talked about “undergoing some testing” but denied talking about a lump found on an image.

Ex ‘would have had beef Wellington too’ if he’d come

LIVE UPDATES: Erin Patterson says she would have served ex-husband Simon Patterson a beef Wellington, too, if he had turned up to the deadly lunch.

thenightly.com.au

 

[LinasK]

Let’s hope the prosecution can come up with hard tangible evidence, cause this is turning into a bit of a circus of ‘perhaps I lied and didn’t mean to and who knows what I did or didn’t do cause I can’t recall’ and unless there is clear fact evidence of placing the death caps in the beef Wellington then it’s all assumption.

Erin Patterson appears to have the steel of a psychopath

If she were in the US legal system, she could be treated as what's called a "hostile" witness and be forced to only answer "yes" "no" questions.

 

[katydid23]

From my reading as compared to not actually looking at EP, I think she is handling the questioning very well.

From my opinion she is listening to the gotchas in the prosecutors words, and not falling for them.

She seems to have an above average understanding of words.

So far there's no sign of what the majority of the public seem to want which is her "cracking"

I have a different view. I don't think she is handling the questioning very well at all.

She is acting like a brick wall, denying denying denying. She is doubling down and denying things that she doesn't even need to deny.

Her defense is that she accidentally added poisonous mushrooms she had foraged to the meal she served.

So why is she still denying that photo is of death caps? Why is she still denying she lied about it to the doctors and investigators?

She looks and sounds like a pathological liar, imo.

In some ways, SHE IS CRACKING right now. She is looking like an irrational, habitual liar who lies even when it is unnecessary to do so.

She just doubles down and nitpicks and it looks ridiculous.

Oh, technically I didn't lie to Dr Monash, I didn't know I accidentally added death caps-----Oh I didn't know what she meant by mushrooming----Oh, I didnt think it was important what I did 7 months ago...
Oh, technically that was not her question...

That is just someone being deceptive and weaselly and it doesn't look good. IMO

 

[MrJ]

Just now
Justice Beale calls for a break

By Judd Boaz

Dr Rogers continues her questioning over the cancer, and Erin asks for a question to be clarified.

Justice Beale says its a good time for a break, and the jury heads out.

 

[Lisa4]

"The answer to that is no, because I wouldn't have expected her to tell him any of that."

I do believe that Gail Patterson was a very discreet person who would have regarded it as unthinkable to share other people's personal health details without their permission.

EP would have known that.

 

[drsleuth]

3.18pm

The health lie that ‘kept going’​

By​

Accused triple killer Erin Patterson has admitted to fabricating a serious illness, including hospital appointments, to her mother-in-law Gail Patterson, a deception she maintained because it made her feel “loved and cared for.”

Prosecutor Nanette Rogers is questioning Patterson about information she had shared with Gail Patterson about a lump in her elbow and an appointment at St Vincent’s Hospital, which the mother of two admitted she had lied about.

Rogers: You did not have a lump on your elbow on 28 June 2023.
Patterson: That’s true.
Rogers: You did not have an appointment at St Vincent’s hospital.
Patterson: No I didn’t.
Rogers: You did not have any medical reason...
Patterson: I didn’t have a legitimate medical reason, that’s true.
Rogers: There was nothing to communicate to your kids about your medical issues.
Patterson: No.
Rogers: I suggest that you told Gail Patterson that you had a lump in your elbow ... to plant a seed of you having a serious health issue.
Patterson: I... don’t think that’s right, no.
Rogers: Why did you say it?
Patterson: So ... I think I gave this in evidence a couple of days ago but I had initially thought I gad an issue with my elbow a had a lot of pain for a number of weeks. In thought I had a lump. I had told Don and Gail about what I was worried about. It started to resolve. I probably winged a bit too much to Don and Gail about it, and I was a bit embarrassed by that. They made me feel loved and cared for in the way they were asking about my health, and I didn’t want that to stop, so I just kept going.

Rogers has asked Patterson whether she was expecting Gail Patterson to pass on information about a biopsy and an MRI that Patterson had shared with her son, Simon, in the expectation that he would not decline any future lunch invitations to her house.

“I would not expect her to tell him any of that,” Patterson said.

Rogers has also taken Patterson to a series of messages between the mother of two and Gail, discussing Patterson’s health.

Patterson agreed she pretended she was ill to Gail with a potentially serious disease.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 27 as it happened: ‘You thought the lunch guests would die’: A rare invitation and a ‘lie about cancer’

It was rare for Erin Patterson to host guests; having four people over for a meal was not an ordinary, casual event for the mother of two.

www.theage.com.au

 

[JBowie]

"... I was concerned that I had something wrong with my brain,” she said.

She got that right!

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Dr Rogers continues her questioning over the cancer, and Erin asks for a question to be clarified.

Justice Beale says its a good time for a break, and the jury heads out.

Dr Rogers, she will continue to annoy Erin, chipping away

 

[drsleuth]

now15.22 AEST
A message exchange, previously shown to the court, from July 2023 is shown.

Gail asks Patterson how her medical appointment went the day prior. The message was sent on 6 July 2023. The following day, Paterson replied and said there was a “bit to digest with everything that’s come out of it. I might talk more about it with you both when I see you in person.”

Rogers says: “You pretended to Gail Patterson that you were ill with a potentially fatal disease.”

“I don’t know if I’d say fatal but serious,” Patterson says.

Rogers asks if Patterson hoped this information would be passed onto Simon.

“No, I would expect her not to,” Patterson says.

Rogers says Patterson’s lunch invite to Gail and Heather was made nine days later on 16 July 2023. Patterson agrees.

Rogers says Patterson wrote “see you in person” before she had invited her relatives to lunch.

“When you sent these messages to Gail were you planning to have the lunch on 29 July? Was that in the back of your mind?’ Rogers asks.

“No, I don’t think it was,” Patterson says.

Erin Patterson trial day 27 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Health online research preparation for ‘convincing lie’: Crown​

By​

Still on the issue of searches online about health issues, the senior Crown prosecutor continues.

Nanette Rogers suggested Patterson had used those images to educate herself on the symptoms of ovarian and brain cancer.

“I think I did do that at one point, yes,” Patterson said.

When she asked when she had done that, Patterson said it was in 2021 or early 2022.

Rogers suggested that the information from the Internet would allow Patterson to tell a more convincing lie about having cancer.

“Theoretically, that’s true, but that’s not what I did,” she said.

Rogers suggested she sought out the information on the internet for the purposes of educating herself on ovarian and brain cancer symptoms.

“My proposition is that it would allow you to tell a more convincing lie about having cancer,” Rogers said.

Patterson denied that’s why she did it.

“Why did you do it?” Rogers asked.

“Because I was concerned that I had ovarian cancer, I was concerned that I had something wrong with my brain,” she said.

Patterson said she hadn’t given the lunch guests any reason for the invitation to the lunch on July 29, 2023.

“I didn’t give them any reason when I invited them, I just invited them,” Patterson said.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 27 as it happened: ‘You thought the lunch guests would die’: A rare invitation and a ‘lie about cancer’

It was rare for Erin Patterson to host guests; having four people over for a meal was not an ordinary, casual event for the mother of two.

www.theage.com.au

I believe Simon's account on that.

 

[MrJ]

I'm a bit worried it's all going to be a she-said-prosecution-said at this point. But I think the fact that she is lying so much and coming across as a habitual liar is helping the prosecution's case.

 

[Detechtive]

3.18pm

The health lie that ‘kept going’​

By​

Accused triple killer Erin Patterson has admitted to fabricating a serious illness, including hospital appointments, to her mother-in-law Gail Patterson, a deception she maintained because it made her feel “loved and cared for.”

Prosecutor Nanette Rogers is questioning Patterson about information she had shared with Gail Patterson about a lump in her elbow and an appointment at St Vincent’s Hospital, which the mother of two admitted she had lied about.

Rogers: You did not have a lump on your elbow on 28 June 2023.
Patterson: That’s true.
Rogers: You did not have an appointment at St Vincent’s hospital.
Patterson: No I didn’t.
Rogers: You did not have any medical reason...
Patterson: I didn’t have a legitimate medical reason, that’s true.
Rogers: There was nothing to communicate to your kids about your medical issues.
Patterson: No.
Rogers: I suggest that you told Gail Patterson that you had a lump in your elbow ... to plant a seed of you having a serious health issue.
Patterson: I... don’t think that’s right, no.
Rogers: Why did you say it?
Patterson: So ... I think I gave this in evidence a couple of days ago but I had initially thought I gad an issue with my elbow a had a lot of pain for a number of weeks. In thought I had a lump. I had told Don and Gail about what I was worried about. It started to resolve. I probably winged a bit too much to Don and Gail about it, and I was a bit embarrassed by that. They made me feel loved and cared for in the way they were asking about my health, and I didn’t want that to stop, so I just kept going.

Rogers has asked Patterson whether she was expecting Gail Patterson to pass on information about a biopsy and an MRI that Patterson had shared with her son, Simon, in the expectation that he would not decline any future lunch invitations to her house.

“I would not expect her to tell him any of that,” Patterson said.

Rogers has also taken Patterson to a series of messages between the mother of two and Gail, discussing Patterson’s health.

Patterson agreed she pretended she was ill to Gail with a potentially serious disease.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 27 as it happened: ‘You thought the lunch guests would die’: A rare invitation and a ‘lie about cancer’

It was rare for Erin Patterson to host guests; having four people over for a meal was not an ordinary, casual event for the mother of two.

www.theage.com.au

How can one think they had a lump?! You either did, or you didn't have a lump. Which was it, Erin?

 

[LinasK]

I'm a bit worried it's all going to be a she-said-prosecution-said at this point. But I think the fact that she is lying so much and coming across as a habitual liar is helping the prosecution's case.

But it's not because don't forget there's the CCTV footage of her, her car, and her dehydrator at the dump. The dehydrator had both her fingerprints on it, and traces of Death Caps in it. That kind of evidence doesn't lie. And she's admitted lying. And we have the phone evidence that she reset her phone 3 times- that's not panic.

 

[drsleuth]

1m ago06.31 BST

Patterson denies telling lunch guests she had ovarian cancer​

Rogers asks Patterson about Ian Wilkinson‘s evidence that she told her lunch guests she had cancer.

“Did you announce at the lunch you had cancer? Rogers asks.

“I didn’t say that I had received a diagnosis,” Patterson says.

Rogers repeats the question.

“Isn’t that what … diagnosed means?” Patterson says.

Rogers asks the questions again. “Did you tell people at the lunch you had cancer?” she asks.

“No,” says Patterson. She says she cannot remember the precise words she used. She says:

What I was trying to communicate was that, that I was undergoing investigations about ovarian cancer and might need treatment ... in the future.

Rogers asks Patterson again if she told the lunch guests she had cancer.

“I did not,” Patterson says.

Rogers says Ian’s evidence was that she mentioned a diagnostic test at the lunch.

Patterson says: “I think I talked about that I had been undergoing some testing.”

Rogers says Ian recalled Patterson mentioning a spot on a scan.

Patterson says she doesn’t think she said that.

Erin Patterson trial day 27 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[JBowie]

I'm waiting for the prosecutor to say "Lying comes easy to you, doesn't it?"

Likely would result in an instant objection, but the jury would be thinking "Yep!"

 

[Old Soul]

Today under cross examination:
Did you tell people at the lunch you had cancer?” the prosecution asked.

“I did not,” Ms Patterson replied.


Erin’s own evidence yesterday:
“Not proud of this, but I led them to believe I might be needing some treatment … in regards to [ovarian cancer] in the coming weeks and months,” she said

“I remember thinking I didn’t want to tell anybody what I had done (gastric bypass), I was really embarrassed about it, so I thought letting them believe I had something that required serious treatment … [would] help me with logistics around the kids, and I wouldn’t have to tell them.”

Which version would you like the jury to believe Erin?

 

[drsleuth]

1m ago06.31 BST

Patterson denies telling lunch guests she had ovarian cancer​

Rogers asks Patterson about Ian Wilkinson‘s evidence that she told her lunch guests she had cancer.

“Did you announce at the lunch you had cancer? Rogers asks.

“I didn’t say that I had received a diagnosis,” Patterson says.

Rogers repeats the question.

“Isn’t that what … diagnosed means?” Patterson says.

Rogers asks the questions again. “Did you tell people at the lunch you had cancer?” she asks.

“No,” says Patterson. She says she cannot remember the precise words she used. She says:



Rogers asks Patterson again if she told the lunch guests she had cancer.

“I did not,” Patterson says.

Rogers says Ian’s evidence was that she mentioned a diagnostic test at the lunch.

Patterson says: “I think I talked about that I had been undergoing some testing.”

Rogers says Ian recalled Patterson mentioning a spot on a scan.

Patterson says she doesn’t think she said that.

Erin Patterson trial day 27 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

Here is a reminder what Ian said ( I don't believe he would lie IMO )

“After the lunch, Erin announced that she had cancer. She said that she was very concerned because she believed it was very serious, life threatening. She was anxious about telling the kids."

Mr Wilkinson said Erin asked their advice with Don Patterson speaking for the group when he said the best approach was to be honest with the children and the group prayed for Erin’s treatment and recovery.

During cross-examination, Mr Mandy reminded Mr Wilkinson that he had told police that Erin had announced she had a suspected cancer, but Mr Wilkinson said he had probably been understating things at that point.

Mr Mandy suggested he simply got the impression Erin had cancer but Mr Wilkinson said it wasn’t an impression.

“She plainly said she had some sort of cancer. I couldn't quite catch exactly what kind of cancer, her voice was low, but she named a type of cancer, speaking about a scan and that the situation was serious, making her afraid for the future of her kids.”

Mushroom meal prayers for Erin’s non-existent cancer - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

KORUMBURRA Baptist Minister Ian Wilkinson, the only person besides Erin Patterson to survive a poisonous mushroom lunch in Leongatha in July 2023, was in the witness stand on Day 6 of the triple murder trial in the Supreme Court at Morwell on...

www.sgst.com.au