Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

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  • #501
She is now claiming that she suffers from bulimia - but aren't sufferers of bulimia and other EDs usually skinny, since they see the bulimia as a way to keep their weight down? And yet she's obese.
This is unfortunately a significant misconception about eating disorders and those who experience them. Anyone of any size can develop ANY type of eating disorder. I personally specialise in the assessment and treatment of individuals experiencing eating disorders.
 
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  • #502
No, not al people with Bulimia are skinny. People with anorexia are skinny but Bulimia is just a habit of over eating or binging then purging. They can be any shape or size.
This is also not entirely accurate. People can experience anorexia also, and not be “skinny”. With anorexia it is about the physical and psychological implications to health of weight loss or dietary restriction, regardless of whether the individual is underweight.

I have had patients who are considered “overweight” or “obese” who were significantly unwell with anorexia nervosa after losing a lot of weight in a short amount of time, but not enough to be categorised as no longer obese or overweight.

Bulimia or any eating disorder, is also not simply a “habit”. They are serious psychological disorders with very significant impacts on medical and psychological functioning.

Also, binge eating disorder is another eating disorder that is very distressing, and often results in overweight/obesity.
 
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  • #503
(Rogers says: “I suggest to you that these were death caps that you foraged on or after 28 April 2022. Correct?”

Patterson replies: “No, that’s not correct.”)

Should of followed with, so you are knowledgeable about dc mushrooms and what they look like.
 
  • #504
(Rogers says: “I suggest to you that these were death caps that you foraged on or after 28 April 2022. Correct?”

Patterson replies: “No, that’s not correct.”)

Should of followed with, so you are knowledgeable about dc mushrooms and what they look like.

I am curious that no one has asked Erin what type of fungi she believes they are in that photo, since she must believe they are edible, what did she think she was dehydrating?

Surely she wasn’t just picking any old mushroom to eat after (supposedly) doing her research into what fungi were safe/unsafe for her dog and spending lots of time looking through mushroom identification groups on Facebook.
 
  • #505
I wasn't expecting her to be so unlikeable, so arrogant, so superior even to law professionals, so much allegedly smarter than anyone in the state it seems, arguing the meaning of half of the words used to make them seem something else. In her birth family she still has an estranged sister, with a family. She has wiped out (I believe) half of the family she married into. Her husband will no doubt have nothing to do with her ever again, possibly the children too. She has no real friends, probably never did. A sad sad story - but it needn't have been this bad. She had the wonderful boon/luck of marrying a decent man with a nice family. She could have been grateful, and vowed to turn a new leaf and become a nicer person herself. She should be smart enough to understand her worst faults. Maybe even now she could change a bit, and learn to be a better person. Try some genuine apologies. And have some sort of relationship with her kids.
 
  • #506
I am curious that no one has asked Erin what type of fungi she believes they are in that photo, since she must believe they are edible, what did she think she was dehydrating?

Surely she wasn’t just picking any old mushroom to eat after (supposedly) doing her research into what fungi were safe/unsafe for her dog.

I think Colin Mandy asked her, and she said button mushrooms from Woolies.


He takes Patterson to a photo, previously shown to the jury, she sent to her Facebook friends. The photo shows mushrooms inside a dehydrator.

Mandy asks what type of mushrooms are shown in the photo.

“I’m pretty sure they were Woolies mushrooms. Just your basic button,” she says.

 
  • #507
I think you need to eat more of it than you realise. I'm pretty sure at one point they said something like 50g.

That's for death though. For Erin to have not got ill, she has to have been incredibly lucky. She's already admitted to tasting the mushroom mix, so it stands to reason that she tasted it again to see if it was better. If it was then better, we also have to believe that she didn't try very much of it - that's not what I'm like when I cook.

Then of course she eats the meal, but only 1/3 to 1/2 of the actual Wellington and managed to chuck it up before getting seriously ill. I still find this odd. If she'd had something like a burger and chips, would it not be odd if she'd had 1/3rd of the burger regardless of the size of the meal, especially if she was enjoying it.

I'll be honest, I don't feel like the toxins thing has quite been proved. I'd like to hear from an expert exactly how long it could take to get in her system. I'd expect the defence have looked into this too. Regardless of this, it is extremely convenient that she happened to have an eating disorder that nobody knew about and she didn't mention until the trial.

If I were a juror, because of the prior lies she's told, I'd find it hard to accept that this isn't a convenient lie. I actually think she could be innocent, but she'll become a poster woman for what no to do if you're accused of a crime.
You make some good points
 
  • #508
If she were to be acquitted, would Simon or Children's Services have any grounds to keep her children from her?
 
  • #509
I think Colin Mandy asked her, and she said button mushrooms from Woolies.


He takes Patterson to a photo, previously shown to the jury, she sent to her Facebook friends. The photo shows mushrooms inside a dehydrator.

Mandy asks what type of mushrooms are shown in the photo.

“I’m pretty sure they were Woolies mushrooms. Just your basic button,” she says.

I recall the ABC podcast mentioning 2/7 samples from the dehydrator were DC’s.
 
  • #510
I think Colin Mandy asked her, and she said button mushrooms from Woolies.


He takes Patterson to a photo, previously shown to the jury, she sent to her Facebook friends. The photo shows mushrooms inside a dehydrator.

Mandy asks what type of mushrooms are shown in the photo.

“I’m pretty sure they were Woolies mushrooms. Just your basic button,” she says.

Ah, thank you, so the mushrooms in the dehydrator were (according to Erin) from Woolies and the one’s on the scales also? And it is one of these two photos that Tom May was pretty certain looked like death caps?

I really wish we could see the photos. And the cctv from Subway.
 
  • #511
I've just listened to the ABC podcast, and you can tell that Rachael is trying hard to be impartial, but I don't know you can just tell where her sympathies really lie.
 
  • #512
I think you need to eat more of it than you realise. I'm pretty sure at one point they said something like 50g.

That's for death though. For Erin to have not got ill, she has to have been incredibly lucky. She's already admitted to tasting the mushroom mix, so it stands to reason that she tasted it again to see if it was better. If it was then better, we also have to believe that she didn't try very much of it - that's not what I'm like when I cook.

Then of course she eats the meal, but only 1/3 to 1/2 of the actual Wellington and managed to chuck it up before getting seriously ill. I still find this odd. If she'd had something like a burger and chips, would it not be odd if she'd had 1/3rd of the burger regardless of the size of the meal, especially if she was enjoying it.

I'll be honest, I don't feel like the toxins thing has quite been proved. I'd like to hear from an expert exactly how long it could take to get in her system. I'd expect the defence have looked into this too. Regardless of this, it is extremely convenient that she happened to have an eating disorder that nobody knew about and she didn't mention until the trial.

If I were a juror, because of the prior lies she's told, I'd find it hard to accept that this isn't a convenient lie. I actually think she could be innocent, but she'll become a poster woman for what no to do if you're accused of a crime.
I was thinking about the 50g as well. That’s 50g of fresh wet … no idea what that equates to dehydrated (Erin probably knows how much weight is lost in drying, using her scales). There will be variance in toxicity it says, some mushrooms stronger than others .

I’m assuming the 50g, comes from accounts of people who have ingested Death Caps & conservative estimates because it would be unethical to test dosage on humans!

In conclusion … serving DC a huge risk, if you are just trying for illness and not death. Even more risky if dried, & possibly more concentrated if not fully rehydrated and what if the cook is mathematically challenged so doesn’t know how much to add. 50g dried is many more mushrooms than 50g fresh.

IF telling truth …
In her system …. Certainly some toxin from tasting the duxelles after adding the DC to improve taste …. Hours before lunch, hours before vomiting. Then the BF in her stomach estimate one hour to conclude meal, clear up, serve cake & tea/coffee, say good byes then eat all the orange cake …. At least an hour before kneeling in front of the toilet. At least an hour of digestion. Vomiting won’t eliminate the entire meal. That’s why a lot of bulimics are overweight, some of the huge binge of food gets digested.
 
  • #513
I've long wondered why Erin and her defence have long gone on with the whole Woolies and Asian grocer thing, despite being it obvious from very early on that she must have picked them.

Could it be to do with a possible manslaughter charge? If she 100% admitted that she picked death caps, is she not somehow culpable even if she didn't do it on purpose?

If she was knowledgeable about mushrooms, but then was so careless as to cost the lives of 3 people, is there no charge to be had there?
 
  • #514
Claiming the sole survivor of the lunch as basically a liar seems profoundly unfair.

If she has a different story to tell, I'm not sure that's unfair is it?

Its only someone's word against someone else's.
 
  • #515
I was thinking about the 50g as well. That’s 50g of fresh wet … no idea what that equates to dehydrated (Erin probably knows how much weight is lost in drying, using her scales). There will be variance in toxicity it says, some mushrooms stronger than others .

I’m assuming the 50g, comes from accounts of people who have ingested Death Caps & conservative estimates because it would be unethical to test dosage on humans!

In conclusion … serving DC a huge risk, if you are just trying for illness and not death. Even more risky if dried, & possibly more concentrated if not fully rehydrated and what if the cook is mathematically challenged so doesn’t know how much to add. 50g dried is many more mushrooms than 50g fresh.

IF telling truth …
In her system …. Certainly some toxin from tasting the duxelles after adding the DC to improve taste …. Hours before lunch, hours before vomiting. Then the BF in her stomach estimate one hour to conclude meal, clear up, serve cake & tea/coffee, say good byes then eat all the orange cake …. At least an hour before kneeling in front of the toilet. At least an hour of digestion. Vomiting won’t eliminate the entire meal. That’s why a lot of bulimics are overweight, some of the huge binge of food gets digested.
One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned is that the survivor of death caps from an earlier podcast, said they were not very nice.

The accepted narrative seems to be that she added them to improve the taste.
 
  • #516
Ah, thank you, so the mushrooms in the dehydrator were (according to Erin) from Woolies and the one’s on the scales also? And it is one of these two photos that Tom May was pretty certain looked like death caps?

I really wish we could see the photos. And the cctv from Subway.

No, you're right. Sounds as if Mandy did not show Erin a pic of the mushrooms on the scales.
The ones on the scales are the ones that Tom May definitely said were consistent with Death Caps. I don't know what he said about the other photo of mushrooms.

I wish we could see the pics they are showing also.


Dr Rogers asked Ms Patterson about photos found on her tablet of yellow-tinged mushrooms laid out on a dehydrator tray on a set of scales.

She told the court it was “likely” she took the photo, but did not remember.

Dr Rogers told the court the evidence of mycologist Dr Tom May was that the mushrooms in the photo were “consistent” with death caps at a “high level of confidence”.


Erin Patterson denies weighing out toxic mushrooms on her kitchen scales to determine deadly dose
 
  • #517
This is also not entirely accurate. People can experience anorexia also, and not be “skinny”. With anorexia it is about the physical and psychological implications to health of weight loss or dietary restriction, regardless of whether the individual is underweight.

I have had patients who are considered “overweight” or “obese” who were significantly unwell with anorexia nervosa after losing a lot of weight in a short amount of time, but not enough to be categorised as no longer obese or overweight.

Bulimia or any eating disorder, is also not simply a “habit”. They are serious psychological disorders with very significant impacts on medical and psychological functioning.

Also, binge eating disorder is another eating disorder that is very distressing, and often results in overweight/obesity.
I'm curious as to what disorder would cause a person to deny that a very obese person was in fact obese. Especially when given the weight/height of the particular person and had seen pictures of said person. And said person says that they are themselves. That baffles me.
 
  • #518
1m ago16.04 AEST
Rogers takes Patterson to evidence by child protection worker, Katrina Cripps, that Patterson told her she invited her lunch guests over for advice about approaching a medical issue with her children on 1 August 2023.

Patterson says she “wouldn’t have put it like that because that wasn’t the reason I invited people”.

“Cripps is wrong, is she?” Rogers asks.

“Yes,” Patterson says.

Patterson says she told Cripps a medical issue had been discussed at the lunch. But she says she did not tell her a discussion of a medical issue was the reason for the lunch.

Rogers says Ian Wilkinson’s evidence was that Patterson told her guests she was anxious about sharing her medical news with her children.

She asks if Patterson told her lunch guests she was anxious about telling her children.

“I think it’s more accurate that I had been talking to them about how to manage the children,” Patterson says.

1m ago16.05 AEST
Rogers says: “I suggest you never thought you would have to account for this lie about having cancer because you thought your lunch guests would die.”

“That’s not true,” Patterson replies

1m ago16.05 AEST
Patterson asked about relationship with estranged husband

Rogers turns to question Patterson about her relationship with her estranged husband, Simon.

She says Simon gave evidence in the trial that he noticed a change in their relationship when Patterson discovered he had listed himself as “separated” in his tax return in late 2022.

Patterson says there was a change but it “happened a bit later, a few weeks later”. She says the tax return conversation was in October 2022.

“But I didn’t perceive a change in the relationship until the end of November,” she says.

Besides the hyperfocus on semantics being part of EP’s whole personality, I believe she sees her constant challenging of every single minute detail as a mark of her brilliance, her upper hand in the trial through highlighting Dr Rogers sloppy recounts to the jury.
On the contrary, Dr Rogers is one smooth operator. Her questioning is deliberately worded to play into Erin’s psyche and to elucidate and put on display to the jury her real personality - obfuscation from the truth at every angle. Rather brilliant tbh.
 
  • #519
I think that description fits Simon more than Erin, the lovesick ex. She left him multiple times, she was empowered. I don’t think she needed him ‘to chose her’ at all. I sense she was keen to keep his family close, I think she merely tolerated him.

Wait, what?
She did merely tolerate him, but that's not because there's something wrong with him. She's the kind of person to kill off a family tree because of some perceived slight, IMO, not exactly like you're dealing with a rational actor.
 
  • #520
I'm curious as to what disorder would cause a person to deny that a very obese person was in fact obese. Especially when given the weight/height of the particular person and had seen pictures of said person. And said person says that they are themselves. That baffles me.

They're delusional.

She's 155cm tall and weighed 111kg at the hospital which is a BMI of 40+ - she is clinically and morbidly obese. Facts are facts. She admits it herself, even. The political correctness is infuriating when we are dealing with facts
 
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