Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

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  • #281
I know some here believe the accused to show narcissistic traits, but as the daughter of a diagnosed NPD, I don’t see anything so far that’s particularly indicative of this.

The communication in messages etc all seems pretty normal and domestic. I imagine similar messages are exchanged amongst families all the time and nobody gets killed.

It’s tempting to ascribe a pathology to help us understand the accused but so far I’m just not seeing it. Not every killer has a personality disorder or a diagnosable cause. I think it’s entirely possible that she really was a good mother, a committed community member, a good friend, and also a murderer.

This would align with what the prosecution have already said about not be putting forward a motive.

I wonder if she received a psych evaluation, and if we will hear about that in due course.

Not all narcissists present in the same way. And they can have a combination of different narcissistic traits.

The 6 Types of Narcissistic Personality Disorder


" I think it’s entirely possible that she really was a good mother, a committed community member, a good friend, and also a murderer."
The only things I have seen is that she was a devoted mother (not a good one if she killed her children's paternal grandparents) and allegedly a murderer.

imo
 
  • #282
After thinking this one through, I'm starting to see this as being more like the actions of a child that has accidentally burnt the house down because they were playing with matches rather than a criminal that has intentionally burnt the house down to make a claim on insurance.
Apologies for that analogy. I know it may not sit well as there are people's lives we are talking about.

It's preposterous that someone who has somewhat planned and intentionally killed members of the family wouldn't actually ask how they are going.
"How are your mum and dad doing? How's Heather and Ian going? Can i do anything to help?"
Isn't that murder 101 - Make sure it kind of looks like you care, not like you've killed them intentionally.


She hasn't even done the most basic things that a murderer would do to try to cover things up. In fact, id go as far as saying she's done nothing a murderer would do. With the dehydrator, wouldn't you bury/burn/ dispose of it before the meal. At the very least? Instead it looks like a silly child has thrown the evidence down the drain thinking nobody will notice.

Everything that has been done to try to cover things up has been a reaction to the 4 guests falling extremely ill.

Also, it wasn't impulsive, so her actions can't be explained by some spur of the moment occurrence.

I know, people are going to bring up examples of silly things murderers have done but if she is found guilty, she'll be going down as one of the silliest murderers in history. Isn’t she supposed to be very intelligent?

My opinion only.

Perhaps I'll change my mind after seeing more evidence but that's my gut feeling at the moment.

I think the phone thing is evidence of pre-planning. Getting rid of her current phone, and acting like another one was her current phone.

And didn't they find another device buried in the back garden?

I am very interested in hearing about the devices. That may be a pivotal moment.

Remember, the prosecution said they would go through the case as chronologically as they could. So we are hearing a build-up to the event and aftermath.

And VicPol are generally pretty good, pretty on the mark, in the cases they prosecute.
If they have been frivolous in this prosecution, it will surprise me.

imo
 
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  • #283
YIKES---the jury sees pictures of her drying mushrooms in her dehydrator and then pictures of her posted message saying :

'I've been hiding powdered mushrooms in everything'​



That is a bad look for Erin right now.
I wonder what was happening within their relationship around the time she purchased the dehydrator. Think she had this whole things in her at time she purchased.
Given she has had a discussion online about beef Wellington recipes, weeks ahead of making it, to me this indicates she was already scheming the whole event.
 
  • #284
I think the phone thing is evidence of pre-planning. Getting rid of her current phone, and acting like another one was her current phone.

And didn't they find another device buried in the back garden?

I am very interested in hearing about the devices. That may be a pivotal moment.

Remember, the prosecution said they would go through the case as chronologically as they could. So we are hearing a build-up to the event and aftermath.

imo
Yes. Perhaps, I'm being a bit premature @SouthAussie
But really, there are so many things that just don't add up to murder for me.
I'm sure I'll stand corrected at some point.
I value minds like yours too so I'm a bit torn with my feelings on this one. Anyway, I'll sit tight and see what happens in the weeks to come.
 
  • #285
After thinking this one through, I'm starting to see this as being more like the actions of a child that has accidentally burnt the house down because they were playing with matches rather than a criminal that has intentionally burnt the house down to make a claim on insurance.
Apologies for that analogy. I know it may not sit well as there are people's lives we are talking about.
I don't quite follow the analogy. Unlike a child accidentally burning down a house, everything that Erin did strikes me as being quite intentional and pre-planned...from arranging everyone to come to her house, to the fake cancer diagnosis and then to making sure that four people got the poisoned meals, and three (herself and the kids) didn't.

It's preposterous that someone who has somewhat planned and intentionally killed members of the family wouldn't actually ask how they are going.
"How are your mum and dad doing? How's Heather and Ian going? Can i do anything to help?"
Isn't that murder 101 - Make sure it kind of looks like you care, not like you've killed them intentionally.
I think that Erin was focused on her scheme at that time...faking the symptoms of poisoning, dumping the dehydrator, etc. She was so stressed that she couldn't muster up fake empathy for her in-laws.

Remember the statement she made in front of the press where she mixes up Ian and Don? One was her father-in-law. Hard to fathom anyone could make that mistake, but we all saw it.

She hasn't even done the most basic things that a murderer would do to try to cover things up. In fact, id go as far as saying she's done nothing a murderer would do. With the dehydrator, wouldn't you bury/burn/ dispose of it before the meal. At the very least? Instead it looks like a silly child has thrown the evidence down the drain thinking nobody will notice.
IMO, It's a little weird to say that she did things that make her seem obviously guilty, so then she probably didn't mean to do it. I think that sort of reasoning works in an Agatha Christie mystery, but not so much in real life.

Everything that has been done to try to cover things up has been a reaction to the 4 guests falling extremely ill.

Also, it wasn't impulsive, so her actions can't be explained by some spur of the moment occurrence.

I know, people are going to bring up examples of silly things murderers have done but if she is found guilty, she'll be going down as one of the silliest murderers in history. Isn’t she supposed to be very intelligent?

My opinion only.

Perhaps I'll change my mind after seeing more evidence but that's my gut feeling at the moment.
There have been a few really conniving murderers, but in reality most are pretty dumb. Even some of the most notorious cases where someone got away with it, it's primarily due to mistakes in the police investigation, and not because the killer was some genius.
 
  • #286
So, these are the things that the police didn't find in their search, but the two technology dogs later found for them.

one USB
a micro secure digital card
a SIM card
a mobile phone
five iPads
a trail camera
a secure digital card
a smart watch

Plus the police took a computer for analysis.

I thought I remembered one of the devices being hidden in a couch on a back porch (or something like that) but I am not seeing the link at the moment.

 
  • #287
So, these are the things that the police didn't find in their search, but the two technology dogs later found for them.

one USB
a micro secure digital card
a SIM card
a mobile phone
five iPads
a trail camera
a secure digital card
a smart watch

Plus the police took a computer for analysis.

I thought I remembered one of the devices being hidden in a couch on a back porch (or something like that) but I am not seeing the link at the moment.

Clever doggies! 🐶
That is quite a haul, the fact that they were hidden (it took the dogs 6 hours to find everything) suggests that there will be some digital trail EP wanted to hide.
 
  • #288
I wonder if Erin's mother was as bad as she was painted. It'll be interesting to hear what her sister has to say.
 
  • #289
I don't quite follow the analogy. Unlike a child accidentally burning down a house, everything that Erin did strikes me as being quite intentional and pre-planned...from arranging everyone to come to her house, to the fake cancer diagnosis and then to making sure that four people got the poisoned meals, and three (herself and the kids) didn't.
Yes, she planned a meal - normal
Yes, she has lied about being sick - hypercondriac
Making sure 4 people got the poisoned meals - yes, but did she undoubtedly know they would get as sick as they did?

She was so stressed that she couldn't muster up fake empathy for her in-laws
Oh come on. Really?

IMO, It's a little weird to say that she did things that make her seem obviously guilty, so then she probably didn't mean to do it. I think that sort of reasoning works in an Agatha Christie mystery, but not so much in real life
For me, it's not weird when you think she'd put so much planning into the meal itself.
Forgetting to hide simple evidence...its not that tricky to understand.
There have been a few really conniving murderers, but in reality most are pretty dumb. Even some of the most notorious cases where someone got away with it, it's primarily due to mistakes in the police investigation, and not because the killer was some genius
Yes, true. But this will be up there if she's found guilty.

JMO
 
  • #290
Looking back at posts in previous threads ...

a.webp

(The blanked out word is motherf-----s.)

In another message, Erin seemingly took aim at Simon himself, attacking the engineer for failing to do enough housework.

'My husband has no idea we have a cleaner come. I love it,' Erin allegedly posted while the couple were still together.

'Now I don't resent the fact that he never helps me with anything because I'm not doing the big jobs either... now all I have to resent him over are the nightly dishes.'


 
  • #291
So, these are the things that the police didn't find in their search, but the two technology dogs later found for them.

one USB
a micro secure digital card
a SIM card
a mobile phone
five iPads
a trail camera
a secure digital card
a smart watch

Plus the police took a computer for analysis.

I thought I remembered one of the devices being hidden in a couch on a back porch (or something like that) but I am not seeing the link at the moment.


I'll be interested to see if the investigators are able to tell if those were thrown out after the 4 became extremely ill (sign of a stupid mistake) or before the lunch (well planned).
 
  • #292
I'll be interested to see if the investigators are able to tell if those were thrown out after the 4 became extremely ill (sign of a stupid mistake) or before the lunch (well planned).

The pre-recorded testimony from the kids may be enlightening.
 
  • #293
Yes, she planned a meal - normal
Yes, she has lied about being sick - hypercondriac
Making sure 4 people got the poisoned meals - yes, but did she undoubtedly know they would get as sick as they did?
She used 'Death Caps'---reportedly one of the most toxic poisons known to man. If it was just about making someone sick she didn't need to use super lethal toxins.

Besides that---who invites their elderly relatives to lunch in order to make them really sick? That is not an innocent action either. Her mother-in-law was already in very poor health.
 
  • #294
I've not seen anything that makes me doubt that she absolutely intended to kill them.
 
  • #295
She used 'Death Caps'---reportedly one of the most toxic poisons known to man. If it was just about making someone sick she didn't need to use super lethal toxins.
When you put it like that, "reportedly one of the most toxic poisons known to man", yes of course it sounds sus ..but... how do you know that was on her mind, if at all. If that's the case why would she even have them in the house that her children live in?
I guess the evidence to come may reveal some facts about that.
Besides that---who invites their elderly relatives to lunch in order to make them really sick?
You said it yourself.
 
  • #296
That is not an innocent action either. Her mother-in-law was already in very poor health.

Her mother-in-law was suffering so much from anxiety that she couldn't even read Erin's messages any more.

(For those who are not aware of encephalitis, it is inflammation of the active tissues of the brain caused by an infection or an autoimmune response. The inflammation causes the brain to swell, which can lead to headache, stiff neck, sensitivity to light, mental confusion and seizures. Link )


“It was having a crack at me and accusing me of some things in response to what I messaged her about… that’s not the bit I objected to. It was the fact that she’d sent it especially to mum, knowing mum’s condition and what that can do to mum.

“That was the reason I’m still upset about that.”

Mr Patterson said his mother, Gail Patterson, had struggled with anxiety since suffering from encephalitis and did not look at messages from Ms Patterson during that period.


 
  • #297
She was clearly resentful towards his parents as well. It wasn’t all just aimed at Simon and his failings. She probably grew resentful that they was failing to take her side over certain matters and wasn’t being objective. imo
 
  • #298
So the defense just ended the day with underlining that Erin is really into mushrooms and that she resented her husband.
Oh...well making sure the jury remembers those.
In their defense, there is not much to work with when it comes to Erin.
 
  • #299
I'll see how the defense will be operating throughout this week but it doesn't really look great as a defense line of the meal being a tragic accident when the accused had powdered mushrooms into dishes for the kids to eat and was very into mushrooms. I doubt she wouldn't know what a Death Cap looked like, unless she was foraging in low visibility -- unlikely. IMO
 
  • #300
So, these are the things that the police didn't find in their search, but the two technology dogs later found for them.

one USB
a micro secure digital card
a SIM card
a mobile phone
five iPads
a trail camera
a secure digital card
a smart watch

Plus the police took a computer for analysis.

I thought I remembered one of the devices being hidden in a couch on a back porch (or something like that) but I am not seeing the link at the moment.

That’s not normal. To have that many devices and for them to be hidden from police to a point where VICPol needed to use technology dogs to find them.

What was she trying to hide? I’ve a feeling we shall find out over the next 5 weeks or so.
 
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