Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

I'm totally against turning any kind of trial into an event to entertain people.

I hope we never televise them.

Same here, and allowing jurors to comment (let alone write books!) about their deliberations in trials can stay out of Oz, too.

 

[CityKid]

I'm worried about your search history.

If WS had a T-shirt, this would be on it!

 

[Salah11]

Unless there's something very remarkable about them, there's no way I could ever describe other people's dinner plates. Even when I've just eaten off them. Maybe I'll take more notice now...

I would be the same as you unless something stood out and her having such a glaringly obvious different plate to me would definitely ring alarm bells if I then got violently sick that same night.

 

[CityKid]

Son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson said relationship between parents ‘very negative’

The pre-recorded video evidence of Patterson’s children was played to the jury on Friday, the ninth day of the murder trial.

www.theage.com.au

The son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson described the relationship between his parents as “very negative” and told investigators his father “does a lot of things to try and hurt” his mother.


“Recently, so before the lunch, it’s all been very negative. I know dad does a lot of things to try and hurt mum, such as messing around with schooling,” he said.

snip

Later that day, when it was time to take his friend home after a sleepover, the boy said he found his mother upstairs building Lego.

“I came upstairs and said, ‘Hey mum, it’s getting late, so should we bring him back now?’” he said.


snip

“How did you know it was leftovers from the day before?” the interviewer asked.

“Because mum said it was left over,” the boy replied. “When she said it was dinner time I came out and thought I’d seen it on the day … of the lunch. She’d been making it for lunch. She said, ‘Yes it’s leftovers’.

“I really liked this meat.”

The boy also recalled on the morning of the lunch seeing his mother preparing meat in a frying pan that was plugged into the wall. After the Saturday lunch, the boy said he helped clean up by stacking what he remembered were white plates left on the table and leaving them on the sink alongside some glasses.

“I collected all the plates. I collected all the glasses, put them next to the sink. They were white plates that were 15 centimetres in diameter, they were raised on the edge. Slightly curved up,” he said. “Dinner plates.”

I wish the son had been asked if these were the plates he, his sister and EP normally used and for what meal(s). The size sounds more like dessert plates, though. Way too small for a main course IMO.

 

[CityKid]

OK< hold up-----The kids had leftover Wellington for DINNER? What time did she serve them dinner? This was the day after the luncheon, right?

She didn't know, by dinnertime, that her lunch guests were in the hospital?

Am I nuts for thinking this is crazy? How could she not know already about them all being sick?

And didn't she tell her daughter that she had been sick during the night and had to use the toilet repeatedly?

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury: If my client had deliberately poisoned her guests, would she serve her beloved children the same food that had sickened them? It makes no sense!"

 

[Spectrix]

I wish the son had been asked if these were the plates he, his sister and EP normally used and for what meal(s). The size sounds more like dessert plates, though. Way too small for a main course IMO.

I just checked my plates for size, they're Corelle frost white plates, really common in Australia (and all over the world).

Dinner Plate - 26cm
Lunch Plate - 21cm
Side Plate - 17cm - This is probably closest to what the son described. You might use it for some fruit or cake or a pastry.

 

[MsMarple]

It probably is and heaven help us if we get a knock on the door from someone holding a search warrant.

I'm considering putting my internet shortcuts on a memory stick and hiding it in an outside couch.

Ha, I see what you did there.

 

[dalsglen]

Erin’s reluctance to have the children seen and assessed makes no sense whatsoever unless she knew for certain that they hadn’t been exposed to the death caps. IMO.

If I was a juror that statement alone would push me towards “beyond a reasonable doubt.” I can’t imagine any reason why a mother would hesitate to learn that her kids were safe, no matter how much she disliked hospitals or didn’t want to upset them. Especially since witnesses described Erin as a doting mother. JMO

Just getting caught up from yesterday so apologies for late posts.

This is what gets me. If you were innocent you would be literally pooing your pants worrying about any cross contamination in terms of the kids. The plates, cutlery, worktop, sink, bin, table, EVERYTHING. I'd want my kids a million miles away from that kitchen.

@Detechtive death "cap toxins actually dissolves the liver" , a sentence I wish I had never read in my life, that made me squirm!

What an Evil woman, murdered because her patient obedient Simon ticked separated. Disgusting.

 

[Porky1]

I find it sad that Simon has to hear this information this way, particularly the son's words.

There were a few times I’ve wondered about Simon, the refusal to split the surgery costs was a red flag for me, referring back to the child support discussion. Those costs aren’t covered by child support. I sensed some petty games and Erin’s frustration, for some, they can be never ending.

The son dropped home after the movies while the daughter stayed, I also wondered whether the son was stepping back, it seems he was aware and perhaps was starting to resent Simon.

Simon is the victim, he lost his parents and Aunt… but I felt he embellished the positive statements about Erin on his first day, to win the jury over, the second day was closer to his natural behaviour and less complementary. A practicing Christian is not enough to put him in the Mr Nice Guy category.

Left field I know but I wonder whether there was any initial investigation to determine whether she could have been setup. He sounds like he had access to the house. He knew she used ground mushrooms.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Left field I know but I wonder whether there was any initial investigation to determine whether she could have been setup. He sounds like he had access to the house. He knew she used ground mushrooms.

Wow! You have done well to come up with something that has not yet been suggested.

Reasonable doubt? I doubt it.

 

[Ellery84]

Left field I know but I wonder whether there was any initial investigation to determine whether she could have been setup. He sounds like he had access to the house. He knew she used ground mushrooms.

That is an interesting theory.

I think that he had no means or opportunity to set her up.

She knew when she went to the hospital that her and the kids could not or would not be sick.

 

[Spectrix]

Left field I know but I wonder whether there was any initial investigation to determine whether she could have been setup. He sounds like he had access to the house. He knew she used ground mushrooms.

As far as we've heard, Simon:

• Didn't know that Erin used dried powdered mushrooms in any dishes (until the Monday after the luncheon)
• Didn't know she owned a dehydrator
• Didn't know what she was preparing for the lunch
• Avoided going into her house at all
  

Suggesting that he intentionally killed his Mother, Father and Aunt, and Framed Erin for their murder is a massive stretch.

 

[Salah11]

If Simon is guilty did he also poison himself 3 times?

 

[Eloise]

haha, same! I've actually looked at the bottom of people's plates before to see who made them. lol

oh wow! like I'm even thinking of my aunt, who entertains a lot and who we've eaten dinner at many times and I can't describe a single plate of hers lol

 

[Spectrix]

If Simon is guilty did he also poison himself 3 times?

Clearly he poisoned himself for attention... three times.

 

[Bats]

This is undeniably true.

However, the defense team has some real problems here, and I don't think sitting idle is a viable option. From opening statements, it seems that they've already conceded two important facts:

• The victims died from death cap toxin.
• The poisoning occurred during the meal served by Erin.

Furthermore, the state has said they will show the following:

• Erin lied about having cancer, the supposed reason for the lunch meeting.
• She used a naturalist website to determine where death caps could be found, drove to that location and also purchased a dehydrator at the same time.
• She was the only person at the lunch who did not suffer the effects of the toxin. Nor did the children, who purportedly ate the leftovers.
• After the meal she repeatedly lied about where the mushrooms were sourced from.
• She tried to refuse medical intervention for her and her children.
• She threw away the dehydrator and lied about it to the police.

And that's not even going into all the family dynamics which may provide the jury with a motive.

If the prosecution can provide evidence for all the facts I listed above, then they will have shown means and opportunity, as well as consciousness of guilt. Assuming so, I don't think the defense can simply sit back and argue that the state didn't prove their case. They will need to provide an alternative set of facts. I'm not sure what they will do, but they have to do something.

I think you're spot on here @ch_13

The defence will have a tactic and i think a lot of people here may be surprised in the end at how difficult it will be to find her guilty of murder and attempted murder.

It's normal that the jury will need to jump over several hurdles for her to be found guilty. The system is designed that way. There was the case of Greg Lynn being found innocent of murdering Russell Hill - who would have thought? The jury had their reason, no doubt.

There only needs to be 1 juror out of 12 who doesn't think she's guilty for her to remain innocent.

 

[ch_13]

Left field I know but I wonder whether there was any initial investigation to determine whether she could have been setup. He sounds like he had access to the house. He knew she used ground mushrooms.

RSBM.

A set-up wouldn't explain the fake claim of cancer, which was the whole reason for the get together in the first place. Nor would it explain why Erin went to the site of the mushroom patch and bought a dehydrator on that same day.

Even if he wanted to off his parents and aunt/uncle, he wasn't at the meal. So, how does he fix it so that Erin gets the serving that's unpoisoned? More importantly, how does he ensure that the children don't eat any of the poisoned servings? From the testimony we heard, if Erin had really fed the kids beef with the mushrooms scraped off, they would have ingested the toxin and likely suffered the same fate as their grandparents.

 

[Spectrix]

I think a lot of people here may be surprised in the end at how difficult it will be to find her guilty of murder ... There was the case of Greg Lynn being found innocent of murdering Russell Hill - who would have thought?

Greg Lynn's story was plausible. Unlikely, but plausible.

We haven't heard Erin Patterson's police interview yet, but I think she's going to have a tough time explaining how she accidentally attended these two exact locations that death caps had been reported growing, accidentally picked them, and then accidentally fed them to her inlaws.

Edit - I'm also keen to hear how she accidentally cured herself of ovarian cancer of the elbow.

 

[Rumination1]

When they ask her questions things will get interesting .
Did she know what the mushrooms were?
Did she intend to make them sick?
Why didn’t she test herself and the children immediately ?

Up post someone said small amounts were 10 to 30% fatal. Tbh imo that’s what she gave a “small” amount thinking to create sickness only
And with this result she can never admit that .
She continues to lie through her teeth and say I didn’t know.

IMO she needs mental health support

 

[Eloise]

I think you're spot on here @ch_13

The defence will have a tactic and i think a lot of people here may be surprised in the end at how difficult it will be to find her guilty of murder and attempted murder.

It's normal that the jury will need to jump over several hurdles for her to be found guilty. The system is designed that way. There was the case of Greg Lynn being found innocent of murdering Russell Hill - who would have thought? The jury had their reason, no doubt.

There only needs to be 1 juror out of 12 who doesn't think she's guilty for her to remain innocent.

I looked up the statistics for the percentage of people who are found guilty vs not guilty in Victorian courts, and they're overwhelmingly (90%+) found guilty. The hugest variation comes in sentencing. There are some very short sentences given in Victoria. If found guilty, imprisonment is nearly inevitable, but one could be out within a decade (NPP).

Prosecutors get record-breaking 91.8% conviction rate in serious cases

The Office of Public Prosecutions acknowledges plea deals have played a part in lowering the proportion of cases that go to trial.

www.theage.com.au

Criminal Courts, Australia, 2023-24 financial year

National statistics about defendants dealt with by criminal courts including demographic, offence, outcome and sentence information

www.abs.gov.au

Murder

Sentencing outcomes for Murder in the higher courts from 2018 to 2023

www.sentencingcouncil.vic.gov.au

When they ask her questions things will get interesting .
Did she know what the mushrooms were?
Did she intend to make them sick?
Why didn’t she test herself and the children immediately ?

Up post someone said small amounts were 10 to 30% fatal. Tbh imo that’s what she gave a “small” amount thinking to create sickness only
And with this result she can never admit that .
She continues to lie through her teeth and say I didn’t know.

IMO she needs mental health support

She doesn't have to have meant to kill them, to be convicted of murder.

It is important to note that you can still be found guilty of murder even if you did not intend to cause death, if a reasonable person in your position would believe that your actions would cause death or serious injury. Reckless murder is most common in cases of serious assault.

She will have ample access to mental health professionals in prison