GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #19

[Detechtive]

Before this can be fully speculated on, I'd like to know more about how good the tests are. The only reason I say this is because we know some of the deceased never tested positive for poisoning and yet we know they were poisoned. Are the samples simply too small to pick it up every time?

If they are more reliable than this and therefore there was a full BW without any poison in it, then it is right to enquire what she was playing at.

I've never fully discounted the idea that she didn't expect they would all get as sick as they did, and she got the dosage wrong. This was always based on the idea that killing 4 people would have always been hard to explain. A more mixed bag, with some dying and some getting ill (into which she fit in with her diahorrea) would have been easier to explain as a tragic accident. Who knows, had Simon attended maybe one other guest would have been given a non-poisoned BW as well.

It's all pure speculation of course, and we'll never fully know what she intended. If however, she did intend to kill 5 people in cold blood, which most people believe, another full BW without any poison is something that would need explaining.

The DC toxins can leave the body within 48 hours, but the poignant point about the testing other than the timing, is that Gail and Heather had elevated liver enzymes and damaged livers. Erin had nothing like it.

There’s not just one test to determine poisoning. It’s a combination of all testing and presentation IMO

 

[Susjay]

Perhaps she was using a non organic substance such as finely crushed glass over a long period.

There was the story of the pencil sharpener blade in the banana incident at her former workplace.

 

[Jake18]

The DC toxins can leave the body within 48 hours, but the poignant point about the testing other than the timing, is that Gail and Heather had elevated liver enzymes and damaged livers. Erin had nothing like it.

There’s not just one test to determine poisoning. It’s a combination of all testing and presentation IMO

Dead livers, really .

 

[SouthAussie]

There was the story of the pencil sharpener blade in the banana incident at her former workplace.

I missed that one. Had to go and have a look for it.


They said she left her job at Airservices Australia in November 2002 after concerns about her workplace behaviour.

Last week, The Australian reported that at one stage, a colleague had allegedly discovered her food had been tampered with, finding a blade from a pencil sharpener lodged in their banana.

10 moments you may have missed from the Erin Patterson trial

From her husband's shock media move, to a mystery friend at court, these are the key moments that defined Erin Patterson's murder trial.

www.newidea.com.au

 

[SouthAussie]

It was Ian who identified an “orangy/tan” plate.

Heather spoke about a “plate with colours on it.”
From the evidence, I was only able to identify two plates that fit that description.

You may be looking for a plate that is no longer there.

Erin's plate may have been destroyed, along with the 4 grey plates. While Erin's meal was not contaminated, the orangey/tan plate - or plate with colours on it - may not have been a usual plate in her household, so it had to go.

imo

 

[Monstradamus]

You may be looking for a plate that is no longer there.

Erin's plate may have been destroyed, along with the 4 grey plates. While Erin's meal was not contaminated, the orangey/tan plate - or plate with colours on it - may not have been a usual plate in her household, so it had to go.

imo

I agree. Her plate had to go - not because it was contaminated, but because it was different.

 

[Susjay]

View attachment 609927

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

I see sandals and socks - now that’s crime of fashion whether at the fuel station, on hiking trail, or on the catwalk.
My opinion only…

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Returning to the service station video -

I've just realised she was carrying something small and black, and I would say rectangular, in her right hand as she entered the service station, and she came out of the restroom without it. You have to look carefully to see it, but it's definitely visible on several occasions.

It's not her keys, because she's holding them in her left hand as she approaches the restroom, and then she transfers the keys to her right hand as she comes out of the restroom.

It's not a doggy waste bag either, IMO, because she uses that hand with the black object held in it, it would appear, to tuck her hair behind her left ear shortly after she enters the shop area.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

IMO

Yes, you're right! Good pick up Tortoise.

 

[Detechtive]

Yes, you're right! Good pick up Tortoise.

I can’t see it - is it a USB stick shape do you think @Tortoise ?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

One of the things that Narcs habitually do is speak word salad and tie up conversations in knots, create double binds and gaslight. For this reason people around them cannot gain agency or clarity and conversation means nothing and goes nowhere
.
Also for this reason, one hopes that EP doesn't have an online device in prison or you can bet your life she'd be here on this forum having wild debates about how a judge and jury misunderstood the situation, analysing semantics, and trying to suss out what angle to go for Appeal.

JMO MOO

Maybe she's here in spirit...Cough.

 

[Two SCents]

Wasn't the half portion collected from the bin leftovers from Erin's bw? Didn't the half portion of leftovers test positive for dc toxins? Is this right or not?

There were 6 beef wellingtons made

At the lunch on Saturday...
1. Ian ate all of his
2. Heather ate all of hers
3. Gail ate half of hers
4. Don ate all of his and half of Gail's
5. Erin at half of hers
6. A complete beef wellington was leftover

Collected by a police officer on Monday...
5. and 6. were in the bin minus the beef fillet

Test lab results from Sept '23
5. meat and mushroom paste tested positive for death cap toxins
6. had no positive results for death cap toxins that we know of

"Mr Wilkinson said the group said grace and tucked into their meals. He and his wife ate their entire servings, while Don ate his meal and half of his wife's."

Surviving lunch guest describes how sickness set in after deadly mushroom meal

Pastor Ian Wilkinson, the sole surviving guest of a lunch containing death cap mushrooms, has given evidence in Erin Patterson's triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

Part two of all the evidence you haven’t seen from Erin Patterson’s trial

From her fateful recipe to the death cap mushrooms growing in the area at the time Erin Patterson picked the toxic fungi, here’s everything you might’ve missed from the mass murderer’s court case.

7news.com.au

 

[Susjay]

I think you’re getting your medical specialists a bit mixed up. And - breath testing for H pylori is usually done before endoscopy, (gastroscopy, not colonoscopy) given it’s not invasive. But a positive H Pylori breath test isn’t definitive - some people, especially children, can be asymptomaticaly colonised. The scope is definitive

How about getting probed by aliens? Now what does that come under?

Excuse my poor attempt at humour Jake, it’s the only place I can go as this discussion gets more convoluted. Hope it doesn’t get to the point of becoming a Gordian Knot. Or we all could just change our names to Theseus because we are in the Labyrinth. But there is no Minotaur to slay, just a bunch of silly red herrings.
Think I need to take a breather.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Yes exactly, not even slightly raised liver enzymes in blood tests.

To theorise that Erin was poisoned at this point is nonsensical and illogical. IMO

It's damn well bloody insulting to Erin's real victims! RIP Gail and Don Patterson and Heather Wilkinson.

 

[Detechtive]

While there’s a lull in reporting I think we need more info to chew on - can’t wait for the sentencing coverage and in particular the victim impact statements. I want to know how the victims feel especially Simon.

 

[Two SCents]

Wasn't the half portion collected from the bin leftovers from Erin's bw? Didn't the half portion of leftovers test positive for dc toxins? Is this right or not?

There were 6 beef wellingtons made

At the lunch on Saturday...
1. Ian ate all of his
2. Heather ate all of hers
3. Gail ate half of hers
4. Don ate all of his and half of Gail's
5. Erin at half of hers
6. A complete beef wellington was leftover

Collected by a police officer on Monday...
5. and 6. were in the bin minus the beef fillet

Test lab results from Sept '23
5. meat and mushroom paste tested positive for death cap toxins
6. had no positive results for death cap toxins that we know of

"Mr Wilkinson said the group said grace and tucked into their meals. He and his wife ate their entire servings, while Don ate his meal and half of his wife's."

Surviving lunch guest describes how sickness set in after deadly mushroom meal

Pastor Ian Wilkinson, the sole surviving guest of a lunch containing death cap mushrooms, has given evidence in Erin Patterson's triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

Part two of all the evidence you haven’t seen from Erin Patterson’s trial

From her fateful recipe to the death cap mushrooms growing in the area at the time Erin Patterson picked the toxic fungi, here’s everything you might’ve missed from the mass murderer’s court case.

7news.com.au

View attachment 610036View attachment 610035

Replying to my own post.

Something must be missing in what we are seeing of the evidence/results because if Erin's leftover half bw tested positive surely Mr Mandy would have argued this when Ms Rogers was claiming Erin gave herself a bw with no dc's in it?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

While there’s a lull in reporting I think we need more info to chew on - can’t wait for the sentencing coverage and in particular the victim impact statements. I want to know how the victims feel especially Simon.

I'm looking forward to reading Simon's book/or watching his interview.

 

[Susjay]

I went down a rabbit hole of scientific papers at the beginning of this case. While it’s true that people can be variably affected after ingestion and there’s different levels of severity, I couldn’t find a case report or case series where a survivor DIDN’T have evidence of liver function test derangement.

Erin’s liver function were normal .

The defence also used her weight as a possible mitigating factor, but fat isn’t going to appreciably change her gut absorption or enterohepatic recycling.

And the famous fake vomit
(I’ll see myself out.)

 

[Deleted member 363451]

How about getting probed by aliens? Now what does that come under?

Excuse my poor attempt at humour Jake, it’s the only place I can go as this discussion gets more convoluted. Hope it doesn’t get to the point of becoming a Gordian Knot. Or we all could just change our names to Theseus because we are in the Labyrinth. But there is no Minotaur to slay, just a bunch of silly red herrings.
Think I need to take a breather.

Admin closed down the Amy Bradley thread. I hope they don't do the same with this one...

 

[SouthAussie]

5. Erin at half of hers

IMO we don't actually know how much Erin ate of her beef wellington. She could have eaten the whole thing, for all we know. We only have her own words about how much she ate.


Katrina Cripps told the court that Erin Patterson reported eating half of her serving of the beef Wellington lunch in the days afterwards.

Juror dismissed in Erin Patterson murder trial — as it happened

Erin Patterson faces three charges of murder in the Latrobe Valley Law Courts. She's accused of killing three relatives by serving them beef Wellington containing poisonous mushrooms. Follow the events as they happened in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Patterson denied eating all her beef Wellington lunch, insisting she ate only half of her meal.
Rogers puts to Patterson that the food found in the bin was a single, individual beef Wellington cut in half. Patterson disputes that.
Rogers: And how much did you eat?
Patterson: I think we’ve been over that.
Rogers: I’m asking you again.
Patterson: Somewhere between a third, a quarter or a half. I don’t know.”

As it happened: Prosecutor suggests accused mushroom cook wanted to appear unwell after beef Wellington lunch - Erin Patterson trial day 29

Accused killer Erin Patterson has spent another full day in witness box during her triple murder trial. She has pleaded not guilty to three charges of murder and one of attempted murder.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Does anyone know if Erin is left-handed?