CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #5

[Slebby]

Re: the dog detected scent to the end of the driveway - a bit of a search found a pay walled Globe and Mail article from May 8th

Disappearance of two children has rocked rural Nova Scotia community

After calling off search and rescue teams for Jack, 4, and Lilly Sullivan, 6, police say they’re zeroing in on specific search areas and investigating possible criminal elements

www.theglobeandmail.com

<modsnip; Direct quoting from a paywalled article is not allowed>

So it’s possible, from reading this, that it’s inaccurate to say the scent ends at the end of the driveway.

IMHO

 

[AddyFinch]

I've been thinking about these dog..... the trackers unless they were old dogs, should have been able to pick up those kids scents in bush. Hands down, if RCMP have a good dog team, then their dogs should be the best, so.... the dogs were used, and the dogs didn't pick up any scent except for the excerpt above.

The home, yard and cars would be contaminated with kids scents normally. Just as part of a tick off list, did LE have dogs track those cars? the grandmothers trailer and her cars? The ATV's? Let's assume they did, and the dogs hit positive for kids. so their noses were working.


Now introduce them to the bush, did they pick up the kids scent immediately? Did they pick up any kids scent further into the bush or in those so called cabins? If the answer is no to bush, and cabins, and those dogs are young working proven trackers, then the RCMP know those kids did not go into that bush, once again comes back to murder, or abduction. Hence no cadaver dogs being brought in, unless they were murdered off site, and bodies returned to bush for burial.


Was the trailer tracked for illegal drug use? Were the sheds tracked for illegal drug use? Were the cars tracked for illegal drug use? Did parents submit to lab tests?

If kids not murdered on property, scent not detected in bush but in cars, ate, then it would be presumed those kids left via their vehicles or someone else's. Murder off sight, or abduction.

 

[Bigditch]

I know, where do you even start, allegedly their scent ended at the driveway. so where do you go from there?

Where does it say their scent ended at the driveway?

 

[TMich6811]

The working theory from RCMP is they are missing after wandering into the forest, no other information has been put out as fact in the media . Everything else is speculation at this stage .

I'm aware multiple agencies are working on this case as was reported but there is no poi and they have stated there is no evidence of an abduction or murder yet .

So if the current hypothesis from LE is lilly and jack got lost within the forest . Why not run the dogs through the 8km radius of the search area . As the searcher with 20 years experience stated fellow searchers were within finger touching distance but yet we're not visible to each other so how would they inspect every minut crevice for two very small children who may have huddled together in an area so dense that an adult cannot see into let alone crawl into .And that's were I feel the cadaver dogs could be the jigsaw piece that's needed to find them


If people believe alternative theories as to why the kids are missing ,well I can understand them feeling the above is a waste of time and resources but IMHO most missing peoples remains that are fortunately found are within 2km radius of the last place seen and more often than I like to think ,searchers miss coming across / finding the remains by inches and are found by a member of the public or their dog or years later when LE decide to open a cold case and do what they imo should have done in the first place

If the dogs aren't successful, no harm no foul . Money at the end of the day I've stated if it's a problem ,I would be willing to donate to a crowd sourced fund . Even if it was done in a private capacity from an expierenced handler

And I'm 100% positive if it were anyone's child on here missing they would want the opportunity to see if the cadaver dogs were successful.

I just want to add for clarity and fairness prehaps a missing persons case has to be upgraded to a suspected homicide before the budget will be made available to use a cadaver dog

All MOO ,IMO and JMHO

IMO the lack of cadaver dogs at this point shows their theory isn’t fully that the kids were in the woods.

 

[AddyFinch]

IMO the lack of cadaver dogs at this point shows their theory isn’t fully that the kids were in the woods.

I agree. LE canine teams know their dogs, and know how well they perform, if a handler thinks the dog did his job, then he will speak to the dogs accuracy that day. If no scent, no kids in the area tracked. Did they track all the perimeter?? I hope so. Did they cross the road even though family states they never went there? I hope so.
You can't keep tracking when the dogs produce nothing, needle in haystack, same with a murder field ie if it didnt' happen on property it could have happened anywhere. Unless someone confesses, it's time to sit back and wait for bodies??

 

[ttjo]

Where does it say their scent ended at the driveway?

Re: the dog detected scent to the end of the driveway - a bit of a search found a pay walled Globe and Mail article from May 8th

Disappearance of two children has rocked rural Nova Scotia community

After calling off search and rescue teams for Jack, 4, and Lilly Sullivan, 6, police say they’re zeroing in on specific search areas and investigating possible criminal elements

www.theglobeandmail.com

Quoting from the article, bolding is mine:

“The Mounties also declined to discuss the stepfather’s claim that divers were called in Thursday to search nearby Lansdowne Lake, or confirm a report that tracking dogs had followed the kids’ scent to the end of the family’s driveway”

So it’s possible, from reading this, that it’s inaccurate to say the scent ends at the end of the driveway.

IMHO

 

[ilovepierre]

Where does it say their scent ended at the driveway?

It was mentioned in a Globe and Mail article, which is now paywalled.

 

[Sarahlou]

Only based on her own words in her tv interview The last time Gray saw Lilly and Jack was nearly two years ago.cbs

Yes but that doesn't give us any information as to why she's not seen them for that long. Might not be her decision. Some parents don't let the grandparents see their grandchildren.

 

[AddyFinch]

It just dawned on me... if grandmother stated she asked MBM where the kids normally play, and the answer was the little woods on the side........ why were SAR adamant in searching the back lots? Why didn't they start at the side?cbs

 

[ttjo]

Only based on her own words in her tv interview The last time Gray saw Lilly and Jack was nearly two years ago.cbs

I know, and thats all we hear from MSM, she doesnt explain why.
If you hear her speak on other shows, she does give more details.

 

[Tricia]

You are not allowed to make accusations without proof. You can discuss the parents but that does not mean you can trash them. We will be issuing thread bans if need be
Tricia

 

[Bigditch]

It was mentioned in a Globe and Mail article, which is now paywalled.

Thank you. I have since heard the statement came from DM.

 

[musicaljoke]

The working theory from RCMP is they are missing after wandering into the forest, no other information has been put out as fact in the media . Everything else is speculation at this stage .

I'm aware multiple agencies are working on this case as was reported but there is no poi and they have stated there is no evidence of an abduction or murder yet .

So if the current hypothesis from LE is lilly and jack got lost within the forest . Why not run the dogs through the 8km radius of the search area . As the searcher with 20 years experience stated fellow searchers were within finger touching distance but yet we're not visible to each other so how would they inspect every minut crevice for two very small children who may have huddled together in an area so dense that an adult cannot see into let alone crawl into .And that's were I feel the cadaver dogs could be the jigsaw piece that's needed to find them


If people believe alternative theories as to why the kids are missing ,well I can understand them feeling the above is a waste of time and resources but IMHO most missing peoples remains that are fortunately found are within 2km radius of the last place seen and more often than I like to think ,searchers miss coming across / finding the remains by inches and are found by a member of the public or their dog or years later when LE decide to open a cold case and do what they imo should have done in the first place

If the dogs aren't successful, no harm no foul . Money at the end of the day I've stated if it's a problem ,I would be willing to donate to a crowd sourced fund . Even if it was done in a private capacity from an expierenced handler

And I'm 100% positive if it were anyone's child on here missing they would want the opportunity to see if the cadaver dogs were successful.

I just want to add for clarity and fairness prehaps a missing persons case has to be upgraded to a suspected homicide before the budget will be made available to use a cadaver dog

All MOO ,IMO and JMHO

The search area didn't have a radius of 8 kms. That would be an enormous area of 201 square kms.

The initial search area was reported to have been 5 square kms.
A 5 square km area has a radius of 1.2 kms (0.75 miles).

Yes, most remains are found within a 2km radius, but this search did not extend that far.

Radius of a Circle Calculator

The radius of a circle calculator returns the length of a circle's radius based on the input data: the circumference, area, or diameter.

www.omnicalculator.com

 

[AddyFinch]

Thank you. I have since heard the statement came from DM.

cbc (which auto correct put as cbs) video of grandma , see above

 

[LadyL]

reading this article, I realized something I hadn't thought of before - did they search the woods across the highway? I think I read they searched behind and beside but don't remember reading about them searching across the road

picture from this link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...llivan-grandmother-missing-children-1.7563400

 

[su5ie]

The search area didn't have a radius of 8 kms. That would be an enormous area of 201 square kms.

The initial search area was reported to have been 5 square kms.
A 5 square km area has a radius of 1.2 kms (0.75 miles).

Yes, most remains are found within a 2km radius, but this search did not extend that far.

Radius of a Circle Calculator

The radius of a circle calculator returns the length of a circle's radius based on the input data: the circumference, area, or diameter.

www.omnicalculator.com

Maths is not my forte and I had assumed it meant a radial search ,thank you for correction

 

[su5ie]

The search area didn't have a radius of 8 kms. That would be an enormous area of 201 square kms.

The initial search area was reported to have been 5 square kms.
A 5 square km area has a radius of 1.2 kms (0.75 miles).

Yes, most remains are found within a 2km radius, but this search did not extend that far.

Radius of a Circle Calculator

The radius of a circle calculator returns the length of a circle's radius based on the input data: the circumference, area, or diameter.

www.omnicalculator.com

covid rules in my country meant there was a 2km restriction in place and it was something i got used to putting into my phone if i wanted to go on a walk or shop . In all honesty 1.2km doesn't seem that much and realistically the kids could have gotten further than that . Obviously different kinds of terrain is going to have an effect on ground covered but

We haven't got a definitive time between them allegedly leaving the yard and DM searching and the arrival of LE so the kids could have had anywhere between 20 mins to a 2 hour head start.

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

dbm

 

[Ontario Mom]

reading this article, I realized something I hadn't thought of before - did they search the woods across the highway? I think I read they searched behind and beside but don't remember reading about them searching across the road

picture from this link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...llivan-grandmother-missing-children-1.7563400

View attachment 598412

I don't have the link handy, but I believe it was the one with the SAR organizer being interviewed, where she mentions crossing that road and the searchers entering the woods in a grid pattern.

 

[seasideForest]

I don't have the link handy, but I believe it was the one with the SAR organizer being interviewed, where she mentions crossing that road

Now you mention it, that rings a bell.

@LadyL
I'm sure personally that they searched across the road. The SAR organiser even thinks that L and J are still in the woods and she came across as professional and thorough to me.
JMO