CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #6

[su5ie]

Imo if the kids did get lost in the woods . They didn't just logically think "oh let's go on a hike " and hot foot it out of there . They would have been playing in the yard for some time , got bored or spotted something and then ventured out , so why no evidence of discarded toys etc

 

[missourimom2]

I still think they could have been placed in someone else’s care, not necessarily a family member’s. I really hope they’re alive. In my opinion, it would seem the mom would have been more upset if she knew they were just killed. Maybe just hopeful thinking.

 

[su5ie]

Yes. I’m a mom of several. I could see children that age wander away while trying to follow an animal they’ve spotted or a number of other reasons while playing. It would be easy to get turned around in a dense forest. I’m not holding on to this theory, but it is a possibility.

Would the kids have locked the other into a washing machine or something and upon discovering what the other had done the parent lashed out and now two kids are dead

 

[Serononin]

I'm still stuck on the question of whether there's any evidence the kids actually made it home from New Glasgow on the 1st

 

[Slebby]

In a poll what would people tick .

Kids wandered off □
Homicide direct or indirect □
Handover □
Abduction □
Other □ and what is your theory

I’m also a #2 - homicide direct or indirect

 

[CityKid]

In a poll what would people tick .

Kids wandered off □
Homicide direct or indirect □
Handover □
Abduction □
Other □ and what is your theory

Currently handover, with indirect homicide my second thought. MOO. L&J were not known to wander, and the dogs only picked up their scent to the end of the driveway. I don't believe either parent committed homicide; I think there would have been evidence of the crime, if not the hiding/disposing of the bodies. I could see a case where they negligently failed to secure drugs/meds, but I think bodies would have been found by now (or cadaver dogs would have been deployed). Stranger abductions are relatively rare, especially in pairs, and in cases like the Groenes, the rest of the family was murdered before Shasta and Dylan were taken.
So, my current theory (which has a massive hole at the end) is that DM is not involved in the handover plan. MBM wanted out, and arranged for people known to her, most likely in her band, to pick them up early on May 2. She told J&L they were going on a little "vacation" and she'd be joining them later. She walked them out to the road, where their scent trail ends, and they're picked up by car. She went back inside, and DM is still asleep. She brings Meadow into bed and pretends to be "drifting in and out of sleep" and concocts her story about what she heard and whom she heard. When DM wakes up, she panics and tells him J&L are gone, puts a story in his head about what and whom he heard, whether both J&L came into the room and how many times, etc.; the stories differ slightly but both stress how easy the kids would be to kidnap, how they'd go with anyone, and how they never close the silent sliding door. Two days later, MBM takes Meadow and heads off to wherever J&L are.
The massive hole in this story is the RCMP, of course. I don't exactly how they coordinate policing wit First Nations bands, but if they knew the kids were safe with the band, I'm sure they'd make a statement that the case is closed and the children are safe.
All MOO.

 

[su5ie]

Currently handover, with indirect homicide my second thought. MOO. L&J were not known to wander, and the dogs only picked up their scent to the end of the driveway. I don't believe either parent committed homicide; I think there would have been evidence of the crime, if not the hiding/disposing of the bodies. I could see a case where they negligently failed to secure drugs/meds, but I think bodies would have been found by now (or cadaver dogs would have been deployed). Stranger abductions are relatively rare, especially in pairs, and in cases like the Groenes, the rest of the family was murdered before Shasta and Dylan were taken.
So, my current theory (which has a massive hole at the end) is that DM is not involved in the handover plan. MBM wanted out, and arranged for people known to her, most likely in her band, to pick them up early on May 2. She told J&L they were going on a little "vacation" and she'd be joining them later. She walked them out to the road, where their scent trail ends, and they're picked up by car. She went back inside, and DM is still asleep. She brings Meadow into bed and pretends to be "drifting in and out of sleep" and concocts her story about what she heard and whom she heard. When DM wakes up, she panics and tells him J&L are gone, puts a story in his head about what and whom he heard, whether both J&L came into the room and how many times, etc.; the stories differ slightly but both stress how easy the kids would be to kidnap, how they'd go with anyone, and how they never close the silent sliding door. Two days later, MBM takes Meadow and heads off to wherever J&L are.
The massive hole in this story is the RCMP, of course. I don't exactly how they coordinate policing wit First Nations bands, but if they knew the kids were safe with the band, I'm sure they'd make a statement that the case is closed and the children are safe.
All MOO.

I'm not from Canada and don't know how close indigenous law enforcement agencies and different cps agencies work with each other on cases regarding missing persons or protective care . Or if there is even separate agencies

I've read somewhere before about indigenous peoples having separate agencies pertaining to their own peoples and not liking interference from standard agencies. It was I think in reference to aboriginal tribes in Australia. I will see can I root it out , not sure if it's valid for the different tribes ( bands) in Canada

I do feel the references to the Band being responsible is an US and Them thought process though and if we were to remove the fact that MBM is a member of an indigenous peoples The thought of a family member removing or being handed the children under some kind of secrecy and clandestine motive would not even enter peoples heads . I don't recall this scenario ever being present in other missing children's cases tbh

 

[whiterhino]

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if there are any old septic tanks and wells in the area, but SAR would have covered those.

I'm also open to the idea that someone on the property may have left some substances around that the kids got into, or an ATV accident, or something similar.

RS&BBM:

JMO It looks like there is a lot happening on their property. I see lots of brush and "hiding places", vehicles, tools, equipment.

Sadly, I'd considered this as well. Even something like a tool, cleaning chemicals or equipment etc.

Re. Jack wearing a pull-up, I guess it's possible that he was getting to the stage where he didn't really need it at night and was just wearing it as a precaution. So it might well not have been wet/full, meaning that it (presumably) wouldn't smell any different to the dogs than if he hadn't been wearing it

RBBM

Hmm... Was Jack wearing a pull up from the previous evening? Just thinking that by 9 or 10 a.m children have usually had their breakfast, washed up and are on the move.

Stupid question: Did the bus make its regular stop at their house despite the kids not attending school that day? Sorry if this has been established already!

 

[su5ie]

If anyone is interested in brushing up on laws pertaining to indigenous peoples and if separate agencies do exist ( see my post above ) these make for good reading

Indigenous Policing

Briefing materials

www.securitepublique.gc.ca

Understanding the context – What We Learned: Discussions with Four First Nations about the Administration and Enforcement of their Laws and By-laws

Understanding the context – What We Learned: Discussions with Four First Nations about the Administration and Enforcement of their Laws and By-laws

www.justice.gc.ca

First Nations Child and Family Services Program

Indigenous Services Canada's First Nations Child and Family Services Program funds prevention and protection services to support the safety and well-being of First Nations children and families living on reserve and in the Yukon.

www.sac-isc.gc.ca

The Indian Act | indigenousfoundations

In this section Introduction The origins of the Indian Act: A history of oppression and resistance The Potlatch Law & Section 141 1951 amendments The White Paper Bill C-31 and gender discrimination So why don’t we just abolish the Indian Act? Recommended resources Introduction to the Indian Act...

indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca

Understanding Aboriginal Law vs. Indigenous Law in Canada

Learn about the basics of Aboriginal law vs. Indigenous law in Canada. Find out their similarities and differences and how they're recognized under Canadian laws

www.lexpert.ca

Understanding Federal Jurisdiction and First Nations

 

[su5ie]

RS&BBM:

JMO It looks like there is a lot happening on their property. I see lots of brush and "hiding places", vehicles, tools, equipment.

Sadly, I'd considered this as well. Even something like a tool, cleaning chemicals or equipment etc.


RBBM

Hmm... Was Jack wearing a pull up from the previous evening? Just thinking that by 9 or 10 a.m children have usually had their breakfast, washed up and are on the move.

Stupid question: Did the bus make its regular stop at their house despite the kids not attending school that day? Sorry if this has been established already!

I haven't personally seen it reported if the bus made its regular stop outside the home on the Friday or if even if it passed by collecting other children along the route

 

[whiterhino]

I'm not from Canada and don't know how close indigenous law enforcement agencies and different cps agencies work with each other on cases regarding missing persons or protective care . Or if there is even separate agencies

I've read somewhere before about indigenous peoples having separate agencies pertaining to their own peoples and not liking interference from standard agencies. It was I think in reference to aboriginal tribes in Australia. I will see can I root it out , not sure if it's valid for the different tribes ( bands) in Canada

I do feel the references to the Band being responsible is an US and Them thought process though and if we were to remove the fact that MBM is a member of an indigenous peoples The thought of a family member removing or being handed the children under some kind of secrecy and clandestine motive would not even enter peoples heads . I don't recall this scenario ever being present in other missing children's cases tbh

BBM:

Yes there are multiple agencies but they cooperate with one another. Most of the time things are handled internally within whichever "jurisdiction" (speaking as a non-Indigenous Canadian layperson). From my understanding, it's very case-by-case and each family has it's own unique set of circumstances which is always given consideration.

FWIW From what I understand, it would NOT be considered clandestine (and may be potentially harmful terminology).

We would need an expert to weigh in on this. MOO.

 

[aggiekel2005]

Currently handover, with indirect homicide my second thought. MOO. L&J were not known to wander, and the dogs only picked up their scent to the end of the driveway. I don't believe either parent committed homicide; I think there would have been evidence of the crime, if not the hiding/disposing of the bodies. I could see a case where they negligently failed to secure drugs/meds, but I think bodies would have been found by now (or cadaver dogs would have been deployed). Stranger abductions are relatively rare, especially in pairs, and in cases like the Groenes, the rest of the family was murdered before Shasta and Dylan were taken.
So, my current theory (which has a massive hole at the end) is that DM is not involved in the handover plan. MBM wanted out, and arranged for people known to her, most likely in her band, to pick them up early on May 2. She told J&L they were going on a little "vacation" and she'd be joining them later. She walked them out to the road, where their scent trail ends, and they're picked up by car. She went back inside, and DM is still asleep. She brings Meadow into bed and pretends to be "drifting in and out of sleep" and concocts her story about what she heard and whom she heard. When DM wakes up, she panics and tells him J&L are gone, puts a story in his head about what and whom he heard, whether both J&L came into the room and how many times, etc.; the stories differ slightly but both stress how easy the kids would be to kidnap, how they'd go with anyone, and how they never close the silent sliding door. Two days later, MBM takes Meadow and heads off to wherever J&L are.
The massive hole in this story is the RCMP, of course. I don't exactly how they coordinate policing wit First Nations bands, but if they knew the kids were safe with the band, I'm sure they'd make a statement that the case is closed and the children are safe.
All MOO.

I have a hard time with this theory, at least the way you explained it. If this was the case, why wouldn't MBM have just taken Meadow and left with the person who picked up J&L? Why go back inside and pretend to be in an out of sleep? Why stage a disappearance? They weren't DM's children so she can leave with them at any point if she wanted to get away from DM. If she's trying to protect J&L from their biodad and family, why not tell DM this information? There's always the chance that she did tell him and he's in on it I guess. She'd have a harder time walking away with Meadow, but it doesn't appear that DM made that very difficult for her once the disappearance came to light (which also makes me question if there was a handoff, if he was involved/knew about it). However, if it was a staged handoff, I do agree that someone would have likely said "hey, the kids are safe and the case is closed."

 

[abanddb123]

Statistically, numbers say that when children are killed or go missing, it's someone they know. We already know this. So to me, moo, they are likely not alive or someone is hiding them. I soo want to believe someone is hiding them.

 

[CityKid]

I'm not from Canada and don't know how close indigenous law enforcement agencies and different cps agencies work with each other on cases regarding missing persons or protective care . Or if there is even separate agencies

I've read somewhere before about indigenous peoples having separate agencies pertaining to their own peoples and not liking interference from standard agencies. It was I think in reference to aboriginal tribes in Australia. I will see can I root it out , not sure if it's valid for the different tribes ( bands) in Canada

I do feel the references to the Band being responsible is an US and Them thought process though and if we were to remove the fact that MBM is a member of an indigenous peoples The thought of a family member removing or being handed the children under some kind of secrecy and clandestine motive would not even enter peoples heads . I don't recall this scenario ever being present in other missing children's cases tbh

BBM. I could imagine it happening in kidnappings by a noncustodial parent, but a stranger kidnapping two children at the same time is so rare, and if the parents were there and as the bus driver told us, Lilly is a screamer, I just can't imagine it happening. I just hope they find them and and they're alive.

 

[justice2962]

In a poll what would people tick .

Kids wandered off □
Homicide direct or indirect □
Handover □
Abduction □
Other □ and what is your theory

Second option

 

[MistyWaters]

I have a hard time with this theory, at least the way you explained it. If this was the case, why wouldn't MBM have just taken Meadow and left with the person who picked up J&L? Why go back inside and pretend to be in an out of sleep? Why stage a disappearance? They weren't DM's children so she can leave with them at any point if she wanted to get away from DM. If she's trying to protect J&L from their biodad and family, why not tell DM this information? There's always the chance that she did tell him and he's in on it I guess. She'd have a harder time walking away with Meadow, but it doesn't appear that DM made that very difficult for her once the disappearance came to light (which also makes me question if there was a handoff, if he was involved/knew about it). However, if it was a staged handoff, I do agree that someone would have likely said "hey, the kids are safe and the case is closed."

I can think of a couple hypothetical possibilities. The first, Child Welfare was actively pursuing intervention for reasons we don’t know about and MBM panicked, not wanting the children arbitrarily placed in foster homes. Another is MBM required residential treatment for example detox or mental health and her mother agreed to childcare Meadow during that time but three children were too much. Daniel was excluded from the plans as the relationship was already on its last days.
JMO

All theories are limited by the minimal information which as been released including the nature of the connection between MBM and the First Nations band that she was a member of. ie Was she raised there?

The last News release by the RCMP was June 11th, a month ago this week. Nothing since, no request for tips, nothing. IMO that generally might indicate investigative progress and they don’t require assistance from the general public.

 

[MistyWaters]

Second option

Just got to say both of them must have evil, dark black hearts to be able to spew out a sad saga of the children quietly sneaking outside through a silent glass door without hardly a tear nor a twitch, while knowing they were either involved or directly caused their deaths.
JMO

 

[ttjo]

The reason bill c 92 came about:
The over-representation of First Nations, Inuit and Métis children in the child and family services system has been described as a humanitarian crisis; according to Census 2016 data, Indigenous children make up 7.7% of all children between the ages of 0 and 14 but account for 52.2% of children in foster care in private homes. The current approach to Indigenous child and family services too often sees Indigenous children separated from their families and communities, due to poverty, inter-generational trauma and culturally biased child welfare practices that result in apprehension. ( and children lose their culture )
there are agencies across canada that have jurrisdiction over their children
is doesnt mean they over rule anyone, . It means they work with the national standards but incorporate their own traditional beliefs to ensure cultural integrity and aiming to keeping families together, read the link It will explain it better than I ever could.
Its not about power at all, its about their people, and reconciling the wrongs of the past. fixing what has been broken. Improving a system that stripped childen of their culture. Theyre not in opposition, they just want their beliefs incorporated.
No point in talking about if the band would hide kids, it just would never happen. They dont have to hide them, they would do what is right and have no problem discussing whats in the best interest of the child.
anyone ever watch the Richard Cardinal story from the national film board, It's really good.
Ill post a link later

Affirming and recognizing Indigenous jurisdiction over child and family services: An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families - Canada.ca

An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families: Context

www.canada.ca

 

[TMich6811]

I can think of a couple hypothetical possibilities. The first, Child Welfare was actively pursuing intervention for reasons we don’t know about and MBM panicked, not wanting the children arbitrarily placed in foster homes. Another is MBM required residential treatment for example detox or mental health and her mother agreed to childcare Meadow during that time but three children were too much. Daniel was excluded from the plans as the relationship was already on its last days.
JMO

All theories are limited by the minimal information which as been released including the nature of the connection between MBM and the First Nations band that she was a member of. ie Was she raised there?

The last News release by the RCMP was June 11th, a month ago this week. Nothing since, no request for tips, nothing. IMO that generally might indicate investigative progress and they don’t require assistance from the general public.

In the first scenario - if 2 were being removed it’s highly unlikely the 3rd would stay. Like highly unlikely.

In the 2nd scenario- It doesn’t matter if her mother agreed to having meadow, if she went to rehab, Daniel would have her unless someone said he couldn’t. Also she was the primary for J and L and didn’t need to abduct them to have them stay somewhere else.

 

[MistyWaters]

In the first scenario - if 2 were being removed it’s highly unlikely the 3rd would stay. Like highly unlikely.

In the 2nd scenario- It doesn’t matter if her mother agreed to having meadow, if she went to rehab, Daniel would have her unless someone said he couldn’t. Also she was the primary for J and L and didn’t need to abduct them to have them stay somewhere else.

Possible the 3rd would stay due to a change in living situation aside with MBMs mother’s supervision.

Someone must’ve said Daniel couldn’t ‘have her’ as according to him he wasn’t allowed to see his daughter. We dont know the situation with Child Welfare but he may’ve been a concern. Umpteen possibilities without more information.
JMO