CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #6

[su5ie]

IIRC DM also went on to say Lilly pushed down on a toy truck and it flew up on her face and gave her a black eye. It’s pure innuendo to presume that a child who got a bruise due to an innocent accident is possible evidence related to her disappearance unless somebody present witnessed physical abuse and if so, it’s a police matter IMO, not breaking news of the day.
JMO

I think the fact that the kids allegedly had multiple black eyes is indicative of something happening behind closed doors .

I seem to recall a time when husbands beat their wives and dv was not spoken about to the point it was a taboo . That similar excuses where given only instead of tonka trucks and the likes it was the woman walked into a door !!

Yes you are right it may not be related to the children's disappearance but it definitely hoists that red flag up the pole a lot further in my mind .

 

[MistyWaters]

I think the fact that the kids allegedly had multiple black eyes is indicative of something happening behind closed doors .

I seem to recall a time when husbands beat their wives and dv was not spoken about to the point it was a taboo . That similar excuses where given only instead of tonka trucks and the likes it was the woman walked into a door !!

Yes you are right it may not be related to the children's disappearance but it definitely hoists that red flag up the pole a lot further in my mind .

Yes it could be significant or it could not be. Especially with more than one child in a household, play can become quite boisterous. Even the yard was indicative of rough and tumble area of child play, certainly never meeting approval for a child safe playground if regulated. So for me a few black eyes is not highly suspicious in isolation, without other indications of violence occurring within the household.

Even then there’s the question of who was responsible?

Actually I’m having an hard time imaging an adult purposely slugging a child in the face, in the way adults having fistfights end up with black eyes. I was under the impression that adults who are violent with children harm them in areas where the bruises can be hidden from sight (arms, legs, torso) but perhaps I’m naive as I’m unfamiliar with the topic.

JMO

 

[Absoluterubbish]

Yes it could be significant or it could not be. Especially with more than one child in a household, play can become quite boisterous. Even the yard was indicative of rough and tumble area of child play, certainly never meeting approval for a child safe playground if regulated. So for me a few black eyes is not highly suspicious in isolation, without other indications of violence occurring within the household.

Even then there’s the question of who was responsible?

Actually I’m having an hard time imaging an adult purposely slugging a child in the face, in the way adults having fistfights end up with black eyes. I was under the impression that adults who are violent with children harm them in areas where the bruises can be hidden from sight (arms, legs, torso) but perhaps I’m naive as I’m unfamiliar with the topic.

JMO

Ill just say I have 4 children, eldest is a teenager and none of them have EVER given each other a black eye or got a black eye during play at home.

Definitely not saying it doesn't happen as im sure it does - but it is definitely not normal for the same children to have multiple black eyes in the past few months through accidental play

 

[su5ie]

Yes it could be significant or it could not be. Especially with more than one child in a household, play can become quite boisterous. Even the yard was indicative of rough and tumble area of child play, certainly never meeting approval for a child safe playground if regulated. So for me a few black eyes is not highly suspicious in isolation, without other indications of violence occurring within the household.

Even then there’s the question of who was responsible?

Actually I’m having an hard time imaging an adult purposely slugging a child in the face, in the way adults having fistfights end up with black eyes. I was under the impression that adults who are violent with children harm them in areas where the bruises can be hidden from sight (arms, legs, torso) but perhaps I’m naive as I’m unfamiliar with the topic.

JMO

I get that you may be unfamiliar with the topic , but surely multiple black eyes on a child in a household setting regardless of how boisterous horseplay is raises an eyebrow .

Yes normally DV or CA is hidden and abusers do "know " where to hit so it doesn't show but there does come a time when the abuser in a rage lashes out and does not think at to where an object or fist lands . They are out of control that is the whole objective .

As you said maybe they were accidents and without anyone actually independent of family coming forward to vouch for them happening as is described and alleged. It cannot be ascertained as child abuse .

It does not have to be a fist that causes a black eye it could be an object or banging a child face off the side of something .

All I'm saying is when an observer sees a child with one black eye it is often brushed off as a once off and most give benefit of the doubt that it was accidental . But if you observe that child with two or three black eyes one starts to doubt the excuses whether truth or not . It is human nature . Which is why families will notice patterns of DV before their loved one is ready to confide . Imo

 

[TMich6811]

Yes it could be significant or it could not be. Especially with more than one child in a household, play can become quite boisterous. Even the yard was indicative of rough and tumble area of child play, certainly never meeting approval for a child safe playground if regulated. So for me a few black eyes is not highly suspicious in isolation, without other indications of violence occurring within the household.

Even then there’s the question of who was responsible?

Actually I’m having an hard time imaging an adult purposely slugging a child in the face, in the way adults having fistfights end up with black eyes. I was under the impression that adults who are violent with children harm them in areas where the bruises can be hidden from sight (arms, legs, torso) but perhaps I’m naive as I’m unfamiliar with the topic.

JMO

Yes children get punched in the face by adults
Or their faces get banged off of things by adults
Or they get thrown or pushed into something by adults
Or something gets thrown at their face.
By adults.
So many kids get black eyes at the hands of adults, yes.

 

[TMich6811]

And to add - I think multiple black eyes for 4 and 6 year olds deserve to be significant until it’s proven they are not - not the other way around.

 

[Inthedetails]

And to add - I think multiple black eyes for 4 and 6 year olds deserve to be significant until it’s proven they are not - not the other way around.

If the kids had black eyes at the time of disappearance, however they happened, it would be strange not to mention that when asking people to look for the kids. Black eyes are very noticable!

jmopinion

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Ill just say I have 4 children, eldest is a teenager and none of them have EVER given each other a black eye or got a black eye during play at home.

Definitely not saying it doesn't happen as im sure it does - but it is definitely not normal for the same children to have multiple black eyes in the past few months through accidental play

Same feelings here, it's not normal, IMO, for children their age (or any age) to get black eyes from everyday play/life in a residential setting, no matter how rustic, no matter their typical behavior and energy level, and more than once in several months, before then disappearing.

I'll take it even further and say, in addition to raising several children, looking after hundreds of kids throughout my lifetime in all types of situations (in home, outdoors, at camp, in classrooms), both professionally and casually:

Neither I or any of the parents, friends or coworkers I've known have ever seen a 4 to 6 year old child sustain that severe of an injury to the face to develop a black eye through innocent play, even in a crowded setting with big toys and play equipment and kids of different ages and genders and physical abilities.

It is so unusual, IMO, that added together with concerns about Lilly and Jack by school professionals a few months before they disappeared, really raises alarm bells about child safety in the home.

In retrospect, of course, not having known about the facial injuries before now, especially when added to DM proclaiming they were a "handful" and he had to do "everything" for them in some of the early videos in which he was speaking freely about it to MSM, IIRC, it's almost like he was setting up a "you know how it is" sort of narrative to explain away the injuries that resulted in black eyes on both children over time.

Yikes....

JMO

 

[AnnieOakley123]

Grandmother of Jack and Lilly Sullivan calls for public inquiry into children’s disappearance​

Grandmother of Jack and Lilly Sullivan calls for public inquiry into children’s disappearance

Documents released to The Globe through a freedom of information request show that on May 2, the same day the children were reported missing, a manager in Nova Scotia’s child protection department wrote an internal memo about the kids for senior government bureaucrats. That document was shared all the way up to the deputy minister for community services, Craig Beaton, the records show.

More than two weeks later, on May 20, the same manager produced another, longer memo about the children that was also shared with her bosses. The contents of those memos are entirely redacted for privacy reasons.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Grandmother of Jack and Lilly Sullivan calls for public inquiry into children’s disappearance​

Grandmother of Jack and Lilly Sullivan calls for public inquiry into children’s disappearance

Documents released to The Globe through a freedom of information request show that on May 2, the same day the children were reported missing, a manager in Nova Scotia’s child protection department wrote an internal memo about the kids for senior government bureaucrats. That document was shared all the way up to the deputy minister for community services, Craig Beaton, the records show.

More than two weeks later, on May 20, the same manager produced another, longer memo about the children that was also shared with her bosses. The contents of those memos are entirely redacted for privacy reasons.

Oh no, this is so very concerning.

 

[Absoluterubbish]

Grandmother of Jack and Lilly Sullivan calls for public inquiry into children’s disappearance​

Grandmother of Jack and Lilly Sullivan calls for public inquiry into children’s disappearance

Documents released to The Globe through a freedom of information request show that on May 2, the same day the children were reported missing, a manager in Nova Scotia’s child protection department wrote an internal memo about the kids for senior government bureaucrats. That document was shared all the way up to the deputy minister for community services, Craig Beaton, the records show.

More than two weeks later, on May 20, the same manager produced another, longer memo about the children that was also shared with her bosses. The contents of those memos are entirely redacted for privacy reasons.

I had read this and was a little confused. Was this memo on May 2 created BECAUSE the children were missing or was this memo already being sent on that date?

 

[huckleberryhound]

The one thing I wonder about Jack and Lilly is, if they did indeed go out into the woods that morning, what would they have done if they realized DM was looking for them? Would they have gone to him?, or might they have been afraid he would be angry and they would be punished? Could they have deliberately hidden themselves even from strangers shouting for them? And out of fear of punishment, they succumbed to the elements in some hidden place? JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I had read this and was a little confused. Was this memo on May 2 created BECAUSE the children were missing or was this memo already being sent on that date?

According to this it appears the memo was written to inform the deputy Minister the department had ongoing involvement with the missing children.

Months after Nova Scotia children vanished, a clearer picture emerges of their lives before their disappearance

There are still few answers about missing siblings Jack and Lilly Sullivan, but trauma and stigma have left their families and community farther apart

www.theglobeandmail.com

Behind the scenes, people’s concern for the children’s welfare had already raised red flags. A child protection supervisor in the nearby town of New Glasgow rushed to prepare a memo for Deputy Minister Craig Beaton about Jack and Lilly on the day the children disappeared, according to redacted briefing notes obtained by The Globe through Freedom of Information legislation.

Two weeks later, in mid-May, another memo about the children was prepared for senior staff in the province’s child welfare department. Opportunities and Social Development Minister Scott Armstrong, who also told The Globe he asked for more information about his department’s interaction with the children, has so far declined to discuss how the government responded to concerns about Jack and Lilly’s wellbeing prior to their disappearance.

 

[MistyWaters]

And to add - I think multiple black eyes for 4 and 6 year olds deserve to be significant until it’s proven they are not - not the other way around.

Just to mention we know there were two adults living in that home but one isn’t talking.

 

[Inthedetails]

The one thing I wonder about Jack and Lilly is, if they did indeed go out into the woods that morning, what would they have done if they realized DM was looking for them? Would they have gone to him?, or might they have been afraid he would be angry and they would be punished? Could they have deliberately hidden themselves even from strangers shouting for them? And out of fear of punishment, they succumbed to the elements in some hidden place? JMO

I think one, if not both, would evenutally cry.

jmopinion

 

[Absoluterubbish]

I think one, if not both, would evenutally cry.

jmopinion

I agree. They are little kids. They would be pretty scared after a few minutes of not being able to see a parent IMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The one thing I wonder about Jack and Lilly is, if they did indeed go out into the woods that morning, what would they have done if they realized DM was looking for them? Would they have gone to him?, or might they have been afraid he would be angry and they would be punished? Could they have deliberately hidden themselves even from strangers shouting for them? And out of fear of punishment, they succumbed to the elements in some hidden place? JMO

I wonder about this as well, if something like this could have happened.

Or even worse on the reasons they could have left on their own and became endangered outdoors, if they were actually afraid of DM and took off to get away from him that morning, Lilly leading the way and taking her little brother off with her to protect him, outside of the home, if she could.

Because, e.g., he was especially short-fused that morning & things may have been escalating with a possible DV situation in their home due to him having either/or:

(a) worked an overnight shift on one of the nights just before they disappeared... IMO, he did look really exhausted around his eyes in early videos like he had been up all night

(b) worked through the evening on the fence behind their home the night before 911 was called

(c) hosted a party and/or shuffled things/people via 5-speed at or around their home the night before 911 was called, and was maybe doing something all night long that was heard by the neighbor re the 5-speed coming and going 5 times throughout the night

So all MOO, DM could have been grumpy and to be avoided that morning, due to some of these possibilities or others I have heard of through reading articles & looking at videos of interviews with DM with MSM links, and a few non-MSM sourced videos on youtube that could have included speculation or misinformation about him working the graveyard or late shift in the days just before they disappeared..

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The one thing I wonder about Jack and Lilly is, if they did indeed go out into the woods that morning, what would they have done if they realized DM was looking for them? Would they have gone to him?, or might they have been afraid he would be angry and they would be punished? Could they have deliberately hidden themselves even from strangers shouting for them? And out of fear of punishment, they succumbed to the elements in some hidden place? JMO

I’ve seen in some searches that a recording of the mother’s voice calling for the children is used to coax them to respond. I didn’t understand why that wasn’t used in this case, but I’m sure they had their reasons.

Lost children often don’t respond to searchers calling their names. Quote from an article posted here before:

“What does your app and your research … tell searchers to pay attention to when it's kids? What's different when you're looking for kids?

Probably that the hallmark with kids is even if you're shouting their name, they may not shout back because maybe they've been told not to speak to strangers, or they're just afraid of you, or they have an active imagination and they've turned you into Bigfoot or something.


They may think they're in trouble. So they may actively hide from searchers. And certainly we point out the fact that kids will crawl into thick underbrush. It may look impenetrable to you as the adult searcher standing up at five feet. But if you're down at between one and three feet, you may see a way to scramble underneath the brush and crawl into that. And that thick brush may provide … a certain amount of shelter to the child. So all those places needs to be searched. And that's a very difficult, time-consuming search.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/missing-person-expert-lansdowne-station-search-1.7531338

I think it was Su5ie that brought up the point before about whether or not the children were aware of CPS involvement and, if so, did that possibly factor in to decisions the children made that day. If Lilly was aware of the possible threat, and now we know she had a black eye, did she want to run and hide? Maybe protect Jack? Go towards school or hope to see the school bus?

 

[katydid23]

I wonder about this as well, if something like this could have happened.

Or even worse on the reasons they could have left on their own and became endangered outdoors, if they were actually afraid of DM and took off to get away from him that morning, Lilly leading the way and taking her little brother off with her to protect him, outside of the home, if she could.

Because, e.g., he was especially short-fused that morning & things may have been escalating with a possible DV situation in their home due to him having either/or:

(a) worked an overnight shift on one of the nights just before they disappeared... IMO, he did look really exhausted around his eyes in early videos like he had been up all night

(b) worked through the evening on the fence behind their home the night before 911 was called

(c) hosted a party and/or shuffled things/people via 5-speed at or around their home the night before 911 was called, and was maybe doing something all night long that was heard by the neighbor re the 5-speed coming and going 5 times throughout the night

So all MOO, DM could have been grumpy and to be avoided that morning, due to some of these possibilities or others I have heard of through reading articles & looking at videos of interviews with DM with MSM links, and a few non-MSM sourced videos on youtube that could have included speculation or misinformation about him working the graveyard or late shift in the days just before they disappeared..

But even if they hid somewhere, wouldn't they have been tracked by the searchers? Did they use dogs? I haven't found a clear answer on that yet.

 

[Absoluterubbish]

But even if they hid somewhere, wouldn't they have been tracked by the searchers? Did they use dogs? I haven't found a clear answer on that yet.

They did use dogs and their scent was tracked to the end of the driveway - tracker dogs is my understanding no cadaver dogs