CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[musicaljoke]

This is a very valid point. It seems the likely difference between your neighbors and Jack and Lilly, though, are that your neighbkrs most likely p×ut their kids to bed in *clean* clothes, comfortable to sleep in AND ready for the next day.

Jack and Lilly, we are told, went to bed in clothes they'd worn at least all day that day at a minimum, shopping in town, playing out in the yard, and likely playing on a not so clean floor.

If that was routine, resulting from a state of overwhelm, it might be the reason why the school reported them sent to school inappropriately dressed and that they had to be provided clothing by the school. Maybe the kids fell asleep in their dirty all-day clothes, fed themselves, and got themselves to the school bus as a matter of routine? We really dont know for aure; all we have is Malehya's word on what their morning habits were. And "say so" is not evidence. We also saw in the docs that the kids were reported to have behavioral issues on the bus which may have stemmed from their home situation. There was to be more investigation by child pritective services but that can't happen now.

Psst: I have slept in clean sweatpants and sweatshirt myself a time or two when I needed to jet out very early in the morning. No problem with that cancept× at all!

There are a lot of assumptions in this theory, and most, if not all, twisted toward assuming the parents of chronic neglect. How on earth can one assume that the floor was not so clean? Or that the kids routinely went to school in dirty clothes, or that the mother was lying about the morning routine? They just spent the day doing the laundry. Doesn't that suggest that clean clothes were important?

 

[musicaljoke]

I don’t know. Just because we only learned of a river in the area of the Martell home we can’t assume nobody else realized it during the RCMP searches. The reason it was said SAR arrived onsite quickly was because they were returning from Eden Lake where a kayaker had fallen into the water. That suggests the earliest responders were familiar with water searches. Considering many lost children are found drowned I’d be surprised if that wasn’t a strong focus during the search right from the very beginning. Drones are invaluable for searching for drowning victims in smaller rivers and streams.

I’m back to not thinking of any one possibility is better than another, while awaiting for the RCMP to update the public at some point in time.
JMO

If, by chance, the river was missed because it was firmly believed that the children would not cross the road, then an accidental drowning at the river is a significant possibility. From the photos of the river search, it looks like a substantial river. This is apparently the dry season. The spring run-off at the beginning of May, would have turned the river into a very dangerous place for two small children.

 

[Colleen Donnelly]

View attachment 625525View attachment 625530
So according to documentation mbm called her mum CM at 8.28am on Friday morning.

The documents the RCMP unsealed and released do not contain anything about page25/38 section 33 biii. ( 5-2-25 there was a missed call from MBM at 8:28am ) In fact, the documents they released only go up to page 35. Can you show what you posted above in the actual files?

No where in the documents do the RCMP ever refer to Malehya as MBM or Cyndy as CM. They would never ever refer to people by initials in official documents.

 

[BCSleuth]

If, by chance, the river was missed because it was firmly believed that the children would not cross the road, then an accidental drowning at the river is a significant possibility. From the photos of the river search, it looks like a substantial river. This is apparently the dry season. The spring run-off at the beginning of May, would have turned the river into a very dangerous place for two small children.

I don't know where those clips are from but it is little more than a creek near their place. Also, it was apparently quite dry last May, when the children went missing. The idea behind the new search is that the water is much higher now and they are hoping it might somehow dislodge something.

I think there is 0% chance the children wandered off. This is not an area of wide open forest. There are trails and roads everywhere. Even if the kids got lost they would have come across a trail or road at some point. The area was searched thoroughly when they went missing. It is just highly unlikely.

This appears to be a case of foul play.

 

[su5ie]

Dbm double post

 

[musicaljoke]

I don't know where those clips are from but it is little more than a creek near their place. Also, it was apparently quite dry last May, when the children went missing. The idea behind the new search is that the water is much higher now and they are hoping it might somehow dislodge something.

I think there is 0% chance the children wandered off. This is not an area of wide open forest. There are trails and roads everywhere. Even if the kids got lost they would have come across a trail or road at some point. The area was searched thoroughly when they went missing. It is just highly unlikely.

This appears to be a case of foul play.

I dunno, the forest and the river are always described as rugged, rough terrain, challenging, and even impassable. It's not a place where young children could navigate their way.

From the article:

When reached by phone later Saturday, Oldrieve said some “items of interest” were retrieved during the search. But the terrain along the river was impassable in spots.

“We were able to clear a lot of area, but the problem that we ran into was the terrain and the lack of a cell signal played a factor, just checking in with the groups,” Oldrieve said.

“Each team did cover roughly five kilometres of the search area. But some of the areas were unreachable. We did locate some items that could be items of interest. It’s too early to tell.

Some ‘items of interest’ located in ‘last-ditch’ search for Lilly and Jack Sullivan

Ontario-based not-for-profit led Saturday's search for Lilly and Jack Sullivan over rough terrain along Middle River

www.saltwire.com

 

[Ontario Mom]

DBM

 

[su5ie]

I dunno, the forest and the river are always described as rugged, rough terrain, challenging, and even impassable. It's not a place where young children could navigate their way.

From the article:

When reached by phone later Saturday, Oldrieve said some “items of interest” were retrieved during the search. But the terrain along the river was impassable in spots.

“We were able to clear a lot of area, but the problem that we ran into was the terrain and the lack of a cell signal played a factor, just checking in with the groups,” Oldrieve said.

“Each team did cover roughly five kilometres of the search area. But some of the areas were unreachable. We did locate some items that could be items of interest. It’s too early to tell.

Some ‘items of interest’ located in ‘last-ditch’ search for Lilly and Jack Sullivan

Ontario-based not-for-profit led Saturday's search for Lilly and Jack Sullivan over rough terrain along Middle River

www.saltwire.com

If the terrain was so difficult for the adults that made up the different search teams since May 2nd can we infer therefore that it would be too difficult for two small children to navigate much ground .

If the river is located near the end of the driveway could this explain why the dogs lost a scent there .

I would be interested in seeing an aerial view from Google earth of this river and its pathway through or beside the property.

I remember in earliest photos of the property ( thread #1 or #2 ) that I could see a stream of water just to the right at the back of janies trailer . I thought at the time was it a ditch with water run off or some kind of small waterfall or spring

 

[musicaljoke]

If the terrain was so difficult for the adults that made up the different search teams since May 2nd can we infer therefore that it would be too difficult for two small children to navigate much ground .

If the river is located near the end of the driveway could this explain why the dogs lost a scent there .

I would be interested in seeing an aerial view from Google earth of this river and its pathway through or beside the property.

I remember in earliest photos of the property ( thread #1 or #2 ) that I could see a stream of water just to the right at the back of janies trailer . I thought at the time was it a ditch with water run off or some kind of small waterfall or spring

Kids will go where adults won't. A child may try to scramble across the stream on a rotten log, where an adult would know it wasn't safe. I believe little kids will try to go absolutely anywhere, including bogs, rivers, under downed and leaning trees ...

 

[su5ie]

Items discovered during volunteer search for missing N.S. children not relevant: RCMP

After a grueling day wading through rushing river waters and climbing through dense woods, some family members of two missing Nova Scotia children were left disappointed their last-ditch search for the siblings before the snow flies did not result in a breakthrough.

ca.news.yahoo.com

From images in this article the river is substantial enough and would have possible strong undercurrents too

I'm no good at Google maps I've tried but have we got satellite images of this river and the proximity to the property

 

[Chimera]

I don't know where those clips are from but it is little more than a creek near their place. Also, it was apparently quite dry last May, when the children went missing. The idea behind the new search is that the water is much higher now and they are hoping it might somehow dislodge something.

I think there is 0% chance the children wandered off. This is not an area of wide open forest. There are trails and roads everywhere. Even if the kids got lost they would have come across a trail or road at some point. The area was searched thoroughly when they went missing. It is just highly unlikely.

This appears to be a case of foul play.

Bbm.
Agreed.

From the beginning, LE seemed to lean towards this not being an abduction so without them wandering there's little left except the 2nd bolded ?
Imo.

If the terrain was so difficult for the adults that made up the different search teams since May 2nd can we infer therefore that it would be too difficult for two small children to navigate much ground .

If the river is located near the end of the driveway could this explain why the dogs lost a scent there .

I would be interested in seeing an aerial view from Google earth of this river and its pathway through or beside the property.

I remember in earliest photos of the property ( thread #1 or #2 ) that I could see a stream of water just to the right at the back of janies trailer . I thought at the time was it a ditch with water run off or some kind of small waterfall or spring

Emphasis mine.
I believe you infer correctly.

Sadly, even if they were found buried in those woods it may be difficult to get justice for Lilly and Jack.
I've also wondered what made LE positive this was not a kidnapping ?
Things that make you go, 'Hmm..'.
Omo.

 

[su5ie]

Bbm.
Agreed.

From the beginning, LE seemed to lean towards this not being an abduction so without them wandering there's little left except the 2nd bolded ?
Imo.


Emphasis mine.
I believe you infer correctly.

Sadly, even if they were found buried in those woods it may be difficult to get justice for Lilly and Jack.
I've also wondered what made LE positive this was not a kidnapping ?
Things that make you go, 'Hmm..'.
Omo.

Yes I have wondered how they ruled out an abduction so soon

What's to say the children weren't chanced upon by a predator further afield if they did indeed wander .

With our towns and cities so chocoblock with cctv cameras , ring doorbells , dash cams and traffic cams one would be forgiven in thinking we live in a world where "big brother" is everywhere and everyplace but is it the same in a rural hamlet like nova scotia where properties are sporadic and is more of a community than a city and particularly around an area like where the kids lived it seemed fairly isolated .

So what if the kids did indeed wander in to the arms of an opportunistic predator whom brought them to a secluded property or bundled them into the boot / trunk or footwell of a car . Two kids alone in an isolated location would be vulnerable to this type of situation look at abby and libby so for the rcmp to totally rule this out seemed strange .

I get the no evidence of the sort required for an Amber Alert ,but to off the bat eliminate any avenue of possibility was a jumping of the gun imo

 

[BCSleuth]

Items discovered during volunteer search for missing N.S. children not relevant: RCMP

After a grueling day wading through rushing river waters and climbing through dense woods, some family members of two missing Nova Scotia children were left disappointed their last-ditch search for the siblings before the snow flies did not result in a breakthrough.

ca.news.yahoo.com

From images in this article the river is substantial enough and would have possible strong undercurrents too

I'm no good at Google maps I've tried but have we got satellite images of this river and the proximity to the property

The images are from the river now, not last May. And we don't know where along the river that was taken.

Here's a view of the "river" just downstream from the area near their driveway.

Google Maps view of so-called MIddle River

 

[BCSleuth]

Yes I have wondered how they ruled out an abduction so soon

[...]

The RCMP has not ruled out abduction. What they have stated repeatedly is that there is no evidence supporting abduction. Something like a door forced open, a broken window, or a car taking off with squealing tires, for example. Those might suggest an abduction. But they have nothing that points toward an abduction. They don't know. That is not the same as saying they have ruled out abduction. They really haven't told us anything about the direction of their investigation. As far as we know, nothing has been ruled out.

 

[Greenestdays]

“Each team did cover roughly five kilometres of the search area. But some of the areas were unreachable. We did locate some items that could be items of interest. It’s too early to tell.

Some ‘items of interest’ located in ‘last-ditch’ search for Lilly and Jack Sullivan

Ontario-based not-for-profit led Saturday's search for Lilly and Jack Sullivan over rough terrain along Middle River

www.saltwire.com

Bolded a sentence. Would the ground have been somewhat frozen still when they went missing? Meaning they could have walked over terrain where adults in autumn couldn’t go because it wouldn’t “carry”? Kids are smaller and lighter, they can go to places where adults can’t.

 

[thor124]

The images are from the river now, not last May. And we don't know where along the river that was taken.

Here's a view of the "river" just downstream from the area near their driveway.

Google Maps view of so-called MIddle River

Thanks for posting that, I was looking at the same view yesterday but couldn't figure out how to share it.

That image was taken in August 2025, in the middle of severe drought, so the water level will be lower than it was in May, but to call it a river is generous.

 

[truecrimel]

At 2:33, they show one of the items of interest. It’s a list of names from inside a box. DM’s name is on it.

 

[Greenestdays]

At 2:33, they show one of the items of interest. It’s a list of names from inside a box. DM’s name is on it.

Can’t watch the video right now but that’s probably the Geocaching “treasure” mentioned a few pages back.

 

[truecrimel]

Can’t watch the video right now but that’s probably the Geocaching “treasure” mentioned a few pages back.

Thank you! I hadn’t seen it mentioned so I wanted to see what people thought about it

 

[su5ie]

Items found ..tshirt and list of names

Looks like at different times the geocache was opened and notes wrote on different dates ???