CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Dreamcherry]

Bbm.
Re. the 2nd bolded : All they would need to do is to blur them.
That would be an easy solution, would it not ?

Re. the 1st bolded : Actually, there might be a different take on that, and this is why : Were they wearing the exact clothes they 'vanished' in ?
Seeing the video could be very important.
This to me might mean something happened (wandered) soon after they arrived home.
Whether it be wandering or something else, which we don't know. LE seemed to have ruled out an abduction, so that's off the table.
Were they wearing regular slip-ons, or laced up-type shoes, or their boots ?
There was mention that both kids liked wearing their boots.

Also if they disappeared in daytime clothing, that might mean no one helped them put their pajamas on, or that they wandered off early that evening before any bedtime rituals (snack, potty, bath, jammies, storytime, etc.).
We know what time the 911 call about their going missing came in, we still do not know what time they actually vanished, and that is troubling.

If they vanished between 8pm and midnight, DM could have driven around looking for them until the 911 call came in.
The neighbors heard vehicle movement that night but it's not been proven whose car was being driven.
The case may be growing cold to many including LE; but I still have questions.
Imo.

I do find it odd that the CCTV footage was never shown to the public, especially if that's the last known sighting of them? By MBM's own admission, they went to bed in the same clothes they wore that day, and she wasn't sure if they changed out of them the morning they disappeared. Doesn't that mean there's a fair chance they disappeared in the same clothes they were wearing in the video footage then?

 

[Ontario Mom]

It's in the docs re Daniel speaking with a colleague from work in the carpark

It was he who stated he was speaking with Daniel and Maleyha in the carpark on the Thursday and that he seen others in the car and could hear kids but did not specifically see L&J nor did he state if by others he meant the children

I will see if I still have documents on file for you to see the info yourself if you don't mind waiting TiA

If not the documents have been linked numerous times in the first 60 pages of this thread


Found it

View attachment 633192View attachment 633193

Thank you for this image. I've tried to follow this thread but don't have the time to uncover links buried in previous 60 pages.

 

[su5ie]

Thank you for this image. I've tried to follow this thread but don't have the time to uncover links buried in previous 60 pages.

No worries if I've links I will forward if documents I only have screenshots of those but prehaps if someone has a link to the documents they can DM you with that so you have it as a reference and it won't be lost in heaps of posts

 

[su5ie]

LE have told the public what they think the children were wearing when they disappeared. IMO far too much time has passed for video evidence from May to be useful eight months later. Perhaps there’s other people, including clerks and customers, captured the video who don’t want their image put to the public for scrutiny? I know that wouldn’t exactly thrill me.

I think this case will continue to be quiet until more ground searches can be conducted in the spring.
JMO

I agree that the public have been told ,what the parents stated the children were wearing when they disappeared.

Other people in cctv is easily blurred ,we see this all the time when appeals go out on crime TV and news reports so no ones privacy is invaded

You are on the site a lot longer than me and I respect that you may have a better insight into cases where little information has been released.

But do you not think it's slightly unusual that we have not seen cctv of the kids considering in other cases where it is unknown what has happened footage has been released to cast a wider net of possible witnesses and also to get exact images of what the kids were wearing when they disappeared

Maleyha states they wore the exact same clothing to bed that they wore that day so even if it was just to have a visual if anyone came across discarded items of clothing that matched

We see from the likes of other cases cctv is sometimes held back for a reason prehaps a missing person was drunk or for a myriad of other reasons so police don't want potential witnesses not coming forward because of error of judgement and it is released further down the line when all other avenues have been explored and led to nothing ,so I wouldnt rule them out never releasing it and it's never too late if it can potentially aid in the investigation.

I feel you are correct in your judgement that all will be quiet until a potential new ground search or some other breakthrough in the case

Very sad all the same bad enough one child but two and absolutely no trace of anything not a shoe ,a sock, a back pack or bone that indicates a clear hypothesis

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree that the public have been told ,what the parents stated the children were wearing when they disappeared.

Other people in cctv is easily blurred ,we see this all the time when appeals go out on crime TV and news reports so no ones privacy is invaded

You are on the site a lot longer than me and I respect that you may have a better insight into cases where little information has been released.

But do you not think it's slightly unusual that we have not seen cctv of the kids considering in other cases where it is unknown what has happened footage has been released to cast a wider net of possible witnesses and also to get exact images of what the kids were wearing when they disappeared

Maleyha states they wore the exact same clothing to bed that they wore that day so even if it was just to have a visual if anyone came across discarded items of clothing that matched

We see from the likes of other cases cctv is sometimes held back for a reason prehaps a missing person was drunk or for a myriad of other reasons so police don't want potential witnesses not coming forward because of error of judgement and it is released further down the line when all other avenues have been explored and led to nothing ,so I wouldnt rule them out never releasing it and it's never too late if it can potentially aid in the investigation.

I feel you are correct in your judgement that all will be quiet until a potential new ground search or some other breakthrough in the case

Very sad all the same bad enough one child but two and absolutely no trace of anything not a shoe ,a sock, a back pack or bone that indicates a clear hypothesis

I think a description of children’s clothing is probably more important if they’re believed to have wandered and gotten lost on a town or city street, to distinguish them from other children. But let’s face it, in a rural area I think two little children sighted alone anywhere in the vicinity would warrant a tip, regardless of clothing (as we know it did aka gold car). I’d also assume most people in the immediate area would’ve recognized the children, if they’d seen them, and rather than alerting authorities, they’d just take them home.

- Or perhaps the RCMP decided to avoid excessive public scrutiny by not releasing the video, a glance, lip-reading, someone too close infront or behind in a high profile SM case with an online audience of many thousands has the potential to unleash a whole mountain of time-consuming tips.
- Or maybe the reason is something as simple as the video is immaterial because the children didn’t go missing from the Dollarama store in New Glasgow, NS.
- Or possibly there was something in that video that could be of potential evidentiary value in the future, depending how the investigation unfolded. For example the video time 2:25pm iirc was also used as the starting point for other various warrants for CCTV of roads.

I don’t think this case wasn’t/isn’t solved because this video was not released (owww pardon the triple negative) but the interest in releasing it is likely made from a curiosity standpoint. If so, that’s not a priority to the RCMP.
JMO

 

[Andreee]

I do find it odd that the CCTV footage was never shown to the public, especially if that's the last known sighting of them? By MBM's own admission, they went to bed in the same clothes they wore that day, and she wasn't sure if they changed out of them the morning they disappeared. Doesn't that mean there's a fair chance they disappeared in the same clothes they were wearing in the video footage then?

I would assume if they wore the same clothes to bed that they wore that day, that they did disappear in the same clothes in the morning. Otherwise, those clothes would now be sitting on the floor. I know the laundry not being put away yet is the reason the kids went to bed in same day clothes. (which were pj type wear anyways). But that still makes me wonder where the clean laundry was and the lateness of them getting home. I also question whether six-year-old Lilly in the morning would even think to carry along her knapsack (even if she liked it) just to play outside or go for walk in nearby wilderness. Her blanket too? Alot to deal with for a youngster.

 

[su5ie]

I think a description of children’s clothing is probably more important if they’re believed to have wandered and gotten lost on a town or city street, to distinguish them from other children. But let’s face it, in a rural area I think two little children sighted alone anywhere in the vicinity would warrant a tip, regardless of clothing (as we know it did aka gold car). I’d also assume most people in the immediate area would’ve recognized the children, if they’d seen them, and rather than alerting authorities, they’d just take them home.

- Or perhaps the RCMP decided to avoid excessive public scrutiny by not releasing the video, a glance, lip-reading, someone too close infront or behind in a high profile SM case with an online audience of many thousands has the potential to unleash a whole mountain of time-consuming tips.
- Or maybe the reason is something as simple as the video is immaterial because the children didn’t go missing from the Dollarama store in New Glasgow, NS.
- Or possibly there was something in that video that could be of potential evidentiary value in the future, depending how the investigation unfolded. For example the video time 2:25pm iirc was also used as the starting point for other various warrants for CCTV of roads.

I don’t think this case wasn’t/isn’t solved because this video was not released (owww pardon the triple negative) but the interest in releasing it is likely made from a curiosity standpoint. If so, that’s not a priority to the RCMP.
JMO

Obviously there is an element of morbid curiosity on a crime forum but I do think it strange that it hasn't been released

Like yourself, I've watched this case unfold from the start and we know that this was the last independent of family verified sighting as it is quoted as being as such which is why this has been quoted . If it wasn't important the time given would be the time DM seen lilly and the account of the day before would be of no business to the public at all

From what we know of the searches nothing was found that could verify a wandering into the forest and the dogs didn't indicate the kids any further than the yard . We have spoken about dogs not being foolproof, that much we do know

But if LE whom have remained tight lipped about many aspects of the case the fact they want the public to know about the footage is important in its self

And yes I fully agree not releasing the video didn't cause the investigation to go unsolved but releasing it may help solve it if and its a big if , it triggers something for a witness that hasn't come forward yet

So far any images in msm don't appear to show what the kids look like at the time of there disappearance and footage may reveal height for example or hair style or length

I did post above that the reason it may not have been released at the time is because it may show something of evidentiary value if the case turned criminal and went to trial , so we are on the same page on that . It quite possibly might show lillys black eye depending on how clear the image is . Which as you state if there is something like that to fuel an already social media bonfire ,I can understand them not releasing it until a point in time they may deem necessary

 

[Dreamcherry]

I would assume if they wore the same clothes to bed that they wore that day, that they did disappear in the same clothes in the morning. Otherwise, those clothes would now be sitting on the floor. I know the laundry not being put away yet is the reason the kids went to bed in same day clothes. (which were pj type wear anyways). But that still makes me wonder where the clean laundry was and the lateness of them getting home. I also question whether six-year-old Lilly in the morning would even think to carry along her knapsack (even if she liked it) just to play outside or go for walk in nearby wilderness. Her blanket too? Alot to deal with for a youngster.

Could it be that she was attached to the knapsack and carried it around everywhere? I did that with a blanket when I was a kid, like Linus, lol. Kid logic is a whole other beast from grown-up logic - I don't think we're ever likely to guess what the reasoning was there with our fully developed brains, unfortunately. The blanket is an oddity, though. Do we think that the scrap found in the woods was evidence she had it with her, or was it just a red herring? I genuinely don't know what to think about it at all!

So, this is probably completely irrelevant, but I keep wondering about it. We know they went to bed in their same day clothes on Thursday night because the clean laundry wasn't put away, right? But they didn't do laundry that day, it was the day before. What did they wear to bed on Wednesday then?

 

[Slebby]

Could it be that she was attached to the knapsack and carried it around everywhere? I did that with a blanket when I was a kid, like Linus, lol. Kid logic is a whole other beast from grown-up logic - I don't think we're ever likely to guess what the reasoning was there with our fully developed brains, unfortunately. The blanket is an oddity, though. Do we think that the scrap found in the woods was evidence she had it with her, or was it just a red herring? I genuinely don't know what to think about it at all!

So, this is probably completely irrelevant, but I keep wondering about it. We know they went to bed in their same day clothes on Thursday night because the clean laundry wasn't put away, right? But they didn't do laundry that day, it was the day before. What did they wear to bed on Wednesday then?

My understanding of the blanket is that it was no longer special to Lilly. She wasn’t in the habit of taking it everywhere. In fact, DM had taken a torn away portion of the blanket and used it to block a draft window, or door, I forget which. Finding the scrap in the woods is therefore not likely an indication that Lilly had been there and had it with her. DM suggested it had been taken from their garbage and planted there (Globe and Mail, August 8th) To what end is anyone’s guess.
Re what they wore to bed - my guess is they either took off Wednesday’s clothes and dressed in fresh clothes on Thursday am (as I’m sure they hadn’t laundered 100 percent of their wardrobe on Wednesday) or they wore the same clothes from Wednesday to Friday.

IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Obviously there is an element of morbid curiosity on a crime forum but I do think it strange that it hasn't been released

Like yourself, I've watched this case unfold from the start and we know that this was the last independent of family verified sighting as it is quoted as being as such which is why this has been quoted . If it wasn't important the time given would be the time DM seen lilly and the account of the day before would be of no business to the public at all

From what we know of the searches nothing was found that could verify a wandering into the forest and the dogs didn't indicate the kids any further than the yard . We have spoken about dogs not being foolproof, that much we do know

But if LE whom have remained tight lipped about many aspects of the case the fact they want the public to know about the footage is important in its self

And yes I fully agree not releasing the video didn't cause the investigation to go unsolved but releasing it may help solve it if and its a big if , it triggers something for a witness that hasn't come forward yet

So far any images in msm don't appear to show what the kids look like at the time of there disappearance and footage may reveal height for example or hair style or length

I did post above that the reason it may not have been released at the time is because it may show something of evidentiary value if the case turned criminal and went to trial , so we are on the same page on that . It quite possibly might show lillys black eye depending on how clear the image is . Which as you state if there is something like that to fuel an already social media bonfire ,I can understand them not releasing it until a point in time they may deem necessary

I was thinking about the video could be important for future evidentiary value if someone was stalking the family with abduction in mind, for example iirc the warrant for the CCTV at the New Brunswick border began May 1 @ 2:25pm, also the warrant for CCTV of Garland Road.

Didn’t Maleyha’s grandmother say Lilly accidentally got a black eye while at her house? Anyway Lilly having a black eye isn’t 100% indicative of abuse nor proof of how it came to be, nor evidence the child was murdered, indeed she was alive in the video. There was an article I linked earlier which stated a child having one black eye was generally caused by an accident, but both eyes black is more an indication of violence.
JMO

 

[OneLove]

Re what they wore to bed - my guess is they either took off Wednesday’s clothes and dressed in fresh clothes on Thursday am (as I’m sure they hadn’t laundered 100 percent of their wardrobe on Wednesday) or they wore the same clothes from Wednesday to Friday.

IMO

These are not fun memories to look back on but the reality from my social work years was that it would not be at all unusual for a parent who is overwhelmed, either by grief, ill health, stress, alcoholism, or drug abuse, to wait to do laundry until every shred of clothing is way beyond being able to pull it out of a dirty mountain on the floor out from underneath the dogs or cats to wear yet one more time., sometimes for another few days. Crusty urine soaked stuff. Dried mud. Snot. Sometimes feces smudges.

That the laundry had neither been put away NOR simply something clean retrieved from the bags for aomething clean to be worn in those 2 days might be indicative of a state of overwhelm and could also simply speak to slovenly or just lax habits. That the school reported the children were having to be redressed at school routinely enough to warrant being reported for social service oversight is significant. I'm sure this is not something reported by a school when its simply a one-off unusual event every great once in a while.

That the laundry from 2 days before was still sitting unpacked and untouched in that bag when the kids were reported missing and their mother summarily packed up and left the area, closed all communication with DM who was left as "point" person in the search, says volumes. What those volumes are exactly is unknown. Might be that she knew they're never ever coming back under any conditions. Might be that she was just so completely overwhelmed as to be unable to carry on normal functioning during the desperate search to *save her children's lives*.

My guess is that after hooking up with DM, her life took a downward spiral, she felt somewhat trapped, and substances with lightening fast addiction rates were within arms reach and easily available.

If she'd reached a point where her grandmother's offer of a usable car represented an opportunity to escape her circumstances, then she'd just entered a time period well known as being dangerous for it high rate of domestic violence and life ending events. I can't help but wonder if withholding of the kids might have been meant as a means to keep her there but had exactly the opposite effect and then everything just spiraled out of control from there. I could be very wrong, but I don't see MbM as having the wherewithal to plan and strategize an escape that involved her kids going missing first. And DM has shown an exceptional bent for both being "in charge" and making himself seem like the rescuing hero while doing so. And, of course, has that 'habit' of being up into the wee hours of the night too... speeding....and overthinking...with time to do unwatched and unknown things. The memory lapses of just those 2 days alone is remarkable...

 

[LadyL]

Could it be that she was attached to the knapsack and carried it around everywhere? I did that with a blanket when I was a kid, like Linus, lol. Kid logic is a whole other beast from grown-up logic - I don't think we're ever likely to guess what the reasoning was there with our fully developed brains, unfortunately. The blanket is an oddity, though. Do we think that the scrap found in the woods was evidence she had it with her, or was it just a red herring? I genuinely don't know what to think about it at all!

So, this is probably completely irrelevant, but I keep wondering about it. We know they went to bed in their same day clothes on Thursday night because the clean laundry wasn't put away, right? But they didn't do laundry that day, it was the day before. What did they wear to bed on Wednesday then?

and why couldn't they just grab clean clothes from the laundry basket?

if I remember correctly, someone did say she usually had the knapsack with her - I can't remember if it was Daniel or someone else?

 

[Dreamcherry]

These are not fun memories to look back on but the reality from my social work years was that it would not be at all unusual for a parent who is overwhelmed, either by grief, ill health, stress, alcoholism, or drug abuse, to wait to do laundry until every shred of clothing is way beyond being able to pull it out of a dirty mountain on the floor out from underneath the dogs or cats to wear yet one more time., sometimes for another few days. Crusty urine soaked stuff. Dried mud. Snot. Sometimes feces smudges.

That the laundry had neither been put away NOR simply something clean retrieved from the bags for aomething clean to be worn in those 2 days might be indicative of a state of overwhelm and could also simply speak to slovenly or just lax habits. That the school reported the children were having to be redressed at school routinely enough to warrant being reported for social service oversight is significant. I'm sure this is not something reported by a school when its simply a one-off unusual event every great once in a while.

That the laundry from 2 days before was still sitting unpacked and untouched in that bag when the kids were reported missing and their mother summarily packed up and left the area, closed all communication with DM who was left as "point" person in the search, says volumes. What those volumes are exactly is unknown. Might be that she knew they're never ever coming back under any conditions. Might be that she was just so completely overwhelmed as to be unable to carry on normal functioning during the desperate search to *save her children's lives*.

My guess is that after hooking up with DM, her life took a downward spiral, she felt somewhat trapped, and substances with lightening fast addiction rates were within arms reach and easily available.

If she'd reached a point where her grandmother's offer of a usable car represented an opportunity to escape her circumstances, then she'd just entered a time period well known as being dangerous for it high rate of domestic violence and life ending events. I can't help but wonder if withholding of the kids might have been meant as a means to keep her there but had exactly the opposite effect and then everything just spiraled out of control from there. I could be very wrong, but I don't see MbM as having the wherewithal to plan and strategize an escape that involved her kids going missing first. And DM has shown an exceptional bent for both being "in charge" and making himself seem like the rescuing hero while doing so. And, of course, has that 'habit' of being up into the wee hours of the night too... speeding....and overthinking...with time to do unwatched and unknown things. The memory lapses of just those 2 days alone is remarkable...

Agree with every syllable of this.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

LE have told the public what they think the children were wearing when they disappeared. IMO far too much time has passed for video evidence from May to be useful eight months later. Perhaps there’s other people, including clerks and customers, captured the video who don’t want their image put to the public for scrutiny? I know that wouldn’t exactly thrill me.

I think this case will continue to be quiet until more ground searches can be conducted in the spring.
JMO

Would it possibly be a tactic of the RCMP to give a description of what they were wearing, while withholding the CCTV footage, so as to potentially hone in on someone whose description of their clothing might match the footage, or be slightly different than the given description?

 

[su5ie]

I was thinking about the video could be important for future evidentiary value if someone was stalking the family with abduction in mind, for example iirc the warrant for the CCTV at the New Brunswick border began May 1 @ 2:25pm, also the warrant for CCTV of Garland Road.

Didn’t Maleyha’s grandmother say Lilly accidentally got a black eye while at her house? Anyway Lilly having a black eye isn’t 100% indicative of abuse nor proof of how it came to be, nor evidence the child was murdered, indeed she was alive in the video. There was an article I linked earlier which stated a child having one black eye was generally caused by an accident, but both eyes black is more an indication of violence.
JMO

That's what I was saying re the black eye being allegedly accidentally from the tonka truck and stated as innocent accident by DM

But by releasing the cctv ,if it was visible. Public perception of what may have happened changes from a willingness to help find an outside perpetrator for the disappearance ( hypothetically) to one of judgement and the thought process of potential witnesses is of parents must have killed them based on visual evidence of a black eye ,which we are aware is happening anyway.

Yes all cctv requested seems to be from the 2.25pm timestamp so I'm surmising that the RCMP wanted to see if the family was followed from this point onwards as it is the last time the kids were independently of family seen alive

If we are to believe family statements the kids were indeed alive and well throughout the rest of Thursday and Friday morning

My point about cctv is the same as yours that up until this point in time it is being held back for reasons only known to the investigators and it could be because of multiple reasons varying from useless to extremely important

 

[Ghostwheel]

MODNOTE:
The Canadian Gothic is not normally an approved source, so discussion on anything else over there is on a case by case basis. This link is allowed only because it has the released documents regarding the search for Jack and Lilly. You can also find this link over on the Media page for Jack and Lilly, so we can refer back to there. This is for discussion of the documents only.

Jack and Lilly Media Thread on Websleuths

Lilly and Jack Sullivan Documents - 1 — the Canadian Gothic

searcn and seizure application related to telephones belonging to Daniel and Malehya

thecanadiangothic.com

​

ETA: Thank you @su5ie for the link

 

[Slebby]

MODNOTE:
The Canadian Gothic is not a normally an approved source, so discussion on anything else over there is on a case by case basis. This link is allowed only because it has the released documents regarding the search for Jack and Lilly. You can also find this link over on the Media page for Jack and Lilly, so we can refer back to there. This is for discussion of the documents only.

Jack and Lilly Media Thread on Websleuths

Lilly and Jack Sullivan Documents - 1 — the Canadian Gothic

searcn and seizure application related to telephones belonging to Daniel and Malehya

thecanadiangothic.com

​

ETA: Thank you @su5ie for the link

I am glad this has been allowed. It’s a quality podcast, imo. Iirc, Canadian Gothic also made a successful FOIP application related to the inclusion of L and J in the NS $150,000 reward.
Anyway, with all the garbage, rumour and falsehoods on YT and FB related to this case, I was glad to discover Canadian Gothic - they’ve done about 14 episodes on L and J. If nothing else, it’s a good refresher of the facts.
IMHO

 

[Firstsnow4]

MODNOTE:
The Canadian Gothic is not a normally an approved source, so discussion on anything else over there is on a case by case basis. This link is allowed only because it has the released documents regarding the search for Jack and Lilly. You can also find this link over on the Media page for Jack and Lilly, so we can refer back to there. This is for discussion of the documents only.

Jack and Lilly Media Thread on Websleuths

Lilly and Jack Sullivan Documents - 1 — the Canadian Gothic

searcn and seizure application related to telephones belonging to Daniel and Malehya

thecanadiangothic.com

​

ETA: Thank you @su5ie for the link

I have read this document and of particular interest under Examination of Phone Images - point 46, the investigator states ‘I have reasonable grounds to believe that the records sought will afford information concerning the missing person and assist in locating the missing person’. Does anyone know if this is standard investigation speech or if they do believe the phone information will provide credible leads?

 

[Ghostwheel]

I have read this document and of particular interest under Examination of Phone Images - point 46, the investigator states ‘I have reasonable grounds to believe that the records sought will afford information concerning the missing person and assist in locating the missing person’. Does anyone know if this is standard investigation speech or if they do believe the phone information will provide credible leads?

One of the things I noted in the media thread from another article was:

"The information is contained in court applications filed by investigators for permission to conduct searches for phone records, banking records, and video related to the case. The documents include unproven statements made by police. (BBM) Those documents were released to The Canadian Press and other news outlets. Many of them contain redactions."

So IMO, you have to take what is in there with a grain of salt.

 

[Slebby]

I was thinking about the lost $1,900 in child benefits, purportedly due to DM’s delayed tax filing. This financial situation must have been terribly stressful for MBM, and may have been a source of great tension in their relationship.
This led me to wonder if perhaps it helps explain why MBM was so quick to change her FB relationship status to single. Perhaps she saw it as a way to distance herself from DM in every public way possible, in order to have her child benefits restored. This seems like a more charitable take on her motivations - dire financial situation - as opposed to a desire to be back in the dating pool.
Just a thought, and imo.