CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

  • #1,841
Yes, though I'm not that familiar with the Duggars, I think it could have been a micro version of that with Lilly the oldest living with Jack just 2 years younger, and Meadow, at 1 1/2 years old, perhaps being the focus of her bioligical parent's parenting energies with the older 2 attending public school and being closer in age.

And having come from the same biological parents and for a few years being raised by MBM & CS, and then together as young siblings they began living with DM as their mother's newer partner 3 years before, so when they were 3ish (Lilly) and 1ish (Jack), and then along came Meadow from a newborn to a 1 1/2 year old, their stepdad's daughter by their mother.

IMO, these circumstances of their upbringing, for little Lilly and littler Jack in the last 3 years living with DM and his family on their property with their mother and his daughterbcould have tightened the bonds between them, and Lilly could have felt she needed or wanted to take care of him and been more in charge of looking after Jack than may be typical in a family unit with 3 kids all of them their own.

It may not be the case here, but if it was, Lilly could have felt some pressure to keep Jack in line and/or off their custodial parent's radar, and/or out of harm's way as best she could, which could have led to her taking drastic measures, e.g., saying to Jack "Mom called us in sick, our parents are tired & sleeping in with Meadow, the weather is getting better, and we don't want to bother them, so let's go...
[Insert scenario under which they could have left home under their own volition] to keep away from any negative situation that may arise for now..."

I know this scenario is maybe somewhat adultified and unlikely and unproven, but it is a possibility, IMO, that things at home were not great for them, and perhaps they were planning to run away or meet up with someone, under which they disappeared because they could only take it so far/it was a fantasy which grew legs that they lacked the maturity and/or understanding of what it would look like in reality to escape their circumstances, and/or someone intervened on their plans and stopped them from going through with their plans for that day with parents having a lay in according to them, and they only had a cough that didn't stop them from taking advantage of some free time doing what they wanted.

JMO
I did wonder whether the reason they couldn't be sure what Jack was wearing when he went missing was because it was normal for Lilly to be the one to help him get dressed. I do get the impression that it was normal for them to fend for themselves to some extent, since in all the accounts of that morning, there's never any mention by either parent of, say, thinking that they should get up and get breakfast for the kids (or the kids asking them to do so)
 
  • #1,842

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... nothing so far suggests the parents were intentionally neglectful nor deliberately endangered the lives of their children. In my opinion this case reveals how the lifestyle and standard of living impacts the challenges faced by a growing family. Compare the rural location and condition of the mobile home to that of a cookie cutter house in the suburbs complete with a children’s playroom with a big screen TV, and a securely fenced yard with a swing set. The parents can’t be held responsible for their personal circumstances, then becomes a fine line to passing judgement on the homeless.

Rather than punishing parents, something may’ve broken down within the child welfare system. But until the case is solved and without knowing if criminality is involved it’s difficult to tell. JMO

“Child welfare” is a term used to describe a set of government and private services designed to protect children and encourage family stability. The main aim of these services is to safeguard children from abuse and neglect. Child welfare agencies will typically investigate allegations of abuse and neglect (these activities are called “child protection services”), supervise foster care and arrange adoptions. They also offer services aimed to support families so that they can stay intact and raise children successfully.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #1,843
Yes, though I'm not that familiar with the Duggars, I think it could have been a micro version of that with Lilly the oldest living with Jack just 2 years younger, and Meadow, at 1 1/2 years old, perhaps being the focus of her bioligical parent's parenting energies with the older 2 attending public school and being closer in age.

And having come from the same biological parents and for a few years being raised by MBM & CS, and then together as young siblings they began living with DM as their mother's newer partner 3 years before, so when they were 3ish (Lilly) and 1ish (Jack), and then along came Meadow from a newborn to a 1 1/2 year old, their stepdad's daughter by their mother.

IMO, these circumstances of their upbringing, for little Lilly and littler Jack in the last 3 years living with DM and his family on their property with their mother and his daughterbcould have tightened the bonds between them, and Lilly could have felt she needed or wanted to take care of him and been more in charge of looking after Jack than may be typical in a family unit with 3 kids all of them their own.

It may not be the case here, but if it was, Lilly could have felt some pressure to keep Jack in line and/or off their custodial parent's radar, and/or out of harm's way as best she could, which could have led to her taking drastic measures, e.g., saying to Jack "Mom called us in sick, our parents are tired & sleeping in with Meadow, the weather is getting better, and we don't want to bother them, so let's go...
[Insert scenario under which they could have left home under their own volition] to keep away from any negative situation that may arise for now..."

I know this scenario is maybe somewhat adultified and unlikely and unproven, but it is a possibility, IMO, that things at home were not great for them, and perhaps they were planning to run away or meet up with someone, under which they disappeared because they could only take it so far/it was a fantasy which grew legs that they lacked the maturity and/or understanding of what it would look like in reality to escape their circumstances, and/or someone intervened on their plans and stopped them from going through with their plans for that day with parents having a lay in according to them, and they only had a cough that didn't stop them from taking advantage of some free time doing what they wanted.

JMO
True — they could have just watched something on Tv like that. So many shows and movies have a running away or a journey — major storytelling element. I wasn’t much older when I watched My Side of the Mountain and dreamed of living in dugout tree. I used to think about what food I would pack, never considering that it would run out. So — what did Lily watch and what was in the backpack?
Dogs didn’t scent them beyond the driveway though— a fact that doesn’t fit this idea.
 
  • #1,844
I recently came across the story of the disappeared/abducted Fandel children in Alaska in 1978.

Two siblings (13 yr old boy, 8 yr old girl) disappeared from their rural cabin while home alone/unsupervised by any adults. This was 1978 and not uncommon as many kids were babysitting by the age of 11 and 12!

I think many folks were thinking negligence on the mom's part and the dad/dad's family was slightly suspected since the parents separated/divorced however didn't seem possible logistically from what I gather.

So a case of two siblings opposite gender who went missing which is rare but happens. JMO MOO

 
  • #1,845
True — they could have just watched something on Tv like that. So many shows and movies have a running away or a journey — major storytelling element. I wasn’t much older when I watched My Side of the Mountain and dreamed of living in dugout tree. I used to think about what food I would pack, never considering that it would run out. So — what did Lily watch and what was in the backpack?
Dogs didn’t scent them beyond the driveway though— a fact that doesn’t fit this idea.
Yeah, I did wonder early on if they were fans of, say, Dora the Explorer, and Lilly decided to "grab your backpack" and take Jack on an adventure
 
  • #1,846
I recently came across the story of the disappeared/abducted Fandel children in Alaska in 1978.

Two siblings (13 yr old boy, 8 yr old girl) disappeared from their rural cabin while home alone/unsupervised by any adults. This was 1978 and not uncommon as many kids were babysitting by the age of 11 and 12!

I think many folks were thinking negligence on the mom's part and the dad/dad's family was slightly suspected since the parents separated/divorced however didn't seem possible logistically from what I gather.

So a case of two siblings opposite gender who went missing which is rare but happens. JMO MOO

BBM

Heck, my sister and I were 13 and 8 in 2012 and we stayed home alone sometimes
 
  • #1,847
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Being a mother is difficult. Sometimes mothers of very young children are extremely tired and need a few more minutes to sleep. I remember being so tired I thought I would die in my sleep. This mother did nothing worthy of criminal charges. The children had a warm home, food in the kitchen, clean clothes in the laundry bags, entertainment while they waited for their parents to greet the day, they were enrolled in school, accompanied their parents on errands and were loved by an extended family. If she should be thrown to the lions because she needed a little bit more time to sleep, then throw me to the lions too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #1,848
ADMIN NOTE

Posts have been removed due to victim bashing that is not at all helpful in determining what happened to Lily and Jack.

Move on from the perfect parenting portion of the discussion please.

Thank you.
 
  • #1,849
Regardless of what we all think what happened I just want to send out prayers for the family and friends of Lily and Jack. You’ll always be in my thoughts and prayers lil ones. God speed & give le a sign to your whereabouts. It’s been too long
 
  • #1,850
BBM

Heck, my sister and I were 13 and 8 in 2012 and we stayed home alone sometimes
Wow! I'm an 80s Gen X'er/latchkey kid and was babysitting a baby at 13 😂 although I have kids the same age now and no way in heck would I let them be home alone (yet - more because my oldest gets distracted easy and newly on a smart phone so not as attentive) but I try to raise them a bit '80s style' and make them independent like I was as a kid that age with other "responsibilities" hahaha...

It's interesting how things can be relative to geography, income or social demographic.

Jack and Lily while rural, were not extremely isolated, not a high traffic or busy area when compared to the suburbs. Is it safer in rural areas vs inner cities vs towns? Safer to leave kids unattended in a rural area or a busy street or suburbs?

Can kids play alone in their front yard anymore? Jack and Lily were quite young to be in their yard alone but I know people do it. They want their kids to grow up like they did. I feel this can happen anywhere sadly. The little girl in her own driveway and a delivery driver takes her! It's all unfathomable and angering... :(

Hoping for some answers and hope this doesn't go cold. JMO MOO

*Edited some out after reading Silly Billy's post! Hope the rest of my post is ok.
 
  • #1,851
I did wonder whether the reason they couldn't be sure what Jack was wearing when he went missing was because it was normal for Lilly to be the one to help him get dressed. I do get the impression that it was normal for them to fend for themselves to some extent, since in all the accounts of that morning, there's never any mention by either parent of, say, thinking that they should get up and get breakfast for the kids (or the kids asking them to do so)
Oh but mbm gave a detailed account of Wednesday morning where she stated she gave the kids breakfast and the kids wanted to watch TV so she turned it on . So at the very least they were unable to turn a TV on by themselves. Its in the documents
 
  • #1,852
I recently came across the story of the disappeared/abducted Fandel children in Alaska in 1978.

Two siblings (13 yr old boy, 8 yr old girl) disappeared from their rural cabin while home alone/unsupervised by any adults. This was 1978 and not uncommon as many kids were babysitting by the age of 11 and 12!

I think many folks were thinking negligence on the mom's part and the dad/dad's family was slightly suspected since the parents separated/divorced however didn't seem possible logistically from what I gather.

So a case of two siblings opposite gender who went missing which is rare but happens. JMO MOO

Interesting case, thanks for posting Lalalacasbah. Small town setting. I'd guess a pedo. A person known to the family. There is likely no way mom and aunt are going to party into the wee hours if they did not believe the children were safe. imo

The boiling pot of water on the stove is a curious detail. Makes me think the kid knew who it was at the door. Otherwise he might have turned the element off to go see who it was at the door. jmo
 
  • #1,853
Oh but mbm gave a detailed account of Wednesday morning where she stated she gave the kids breakfast and the kids wanted to watch TV so she turned it on . So at the very least they were unable to turn a TV on by themselves. Its in the documents
I'm wondering if they had crazy cables that made it hard for the kids to get their show on themselves?

I know at my house we have to unplug one HDMI cable from dad's tech to plug into the box that streams the kid's Netflix, Disney, etc. We have different inputs too so our regular cable TV is a drag because our remote wants to default to the streaming box. My house ain't easy lol...but when my youngest got older she knows how to do it now.
 
  • #1,854
Interesting case, thanks for posting Lalalacasbah. Small town setting. I'd guess a pedo. A person known to the family. There is likely no way mom and aunt are going to party into the wee hours if they did not believe the children were safe. imo

The boiling pot of water on the stove is a curious detail. Makes me think the kid knew who it was at the door. Otherwise he might have turned the element off to go see who it was at the door. jmo
It is interesting! I might go down that rabbit hole. Lots of theories and I think a POI (local ex-con) or two, will have to deep dive that to be sure. There are more in depth, better articles than the short one I posted.

But ya, 2 siblings and rural area..s o might've knew the person from somewhere or pedo in the area.
Totally thought if Jack and Lily but ages are different.

Seems there's a WS thread on the Alaska kids it so I'm going to try to catch up :)

 
  • #1,855
Interesting case, thanks for posting Lalalacasbah. Small town setting. I'd guess a pedo. A person known to the family. There is likely no way mom and aunt are going to party into the wee hours if they did not believe the children were safe. imo

The boiling pot of water on the stove is a curious detail. Makes me think the kid knew who it was at the door. Otherwise he might have turned the element off to go see who it was at the door. jmo
Bbm.
Agreed, this might have been someone known to the family; but I keep thinking back to LE seemingly dismissing an abduction ?
If they didn't wander and if no foul play from within, what is left ?
Imo.
 
  • #1,856
Bbm.
Agreed, this might have been someone known to the family; but I keep thinking back to LE seemingly dismissing an abduction ?
If they didn't wander and if no foul play from within, what is left ?
Imo.
Hi Chimera, we are discussing a case that is similar in scope to L&J. The Handel children from 1978.
 
  • #1,857
Hi Chimera, we are discussing a case that is similar in scope to L&J. The Handel children from 1978.
But both a bit similar! Boy and girl, brother and sister, semi-rural, suspicions about father's family involvement, or opportunist abduction if someone knew family habits or overheard mom/parents while out and about during the day - some similarities as mentioned, but different of course.

Trying not to derail the thread :) I will follow the WS thread on the Alaska kids, it's an old one but lots of info on there... might generate fresh ideas.
 
  • #1,858
There are lots of stories of children who have quickly become very lost. Like the story of George Hazard-Benoit, who was found.

Key sentence from that story: "When he got lost and heard strangers calling for him, he got scared and hid."

Or the story of Even Thompson, who also got scared and hid.

It happens. It often seems to involve children on the autism spectrum.
 
  • #1,859
EXCEPT.... when power saving mode is switchef on, Google tracking is automatically turned off. Only one button. One second on. One second off.

So even that is not sure evidence, unless power saving mode can somehow be tracked as to when it's turned on and off.
I tested this using my Pixel 7 Pro a few weeks ago when this first came up. With power saving on it still recorded where I visited in my timeline. Seems power saving modes aren't equal across devices.
 
  • #1,860
Holy mackerel. Maybe the search area should’ve been expanded. This missing five year old was found three miles away within an hour after he disappeared. Three miles an hour is considered as a brisk pace for adults. How much of a head start did Jack and Lilly have?

This is another recent story of a two-year old that was also found three miles away, accompanied by her two dogs.
 

Guardians Monthly Goal

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
108
Guests online
1,241
Total visitors
1,349

Forum statistics

Threads
635,659
Messages
18,681,406
Members
243,342
Latest member
mainedame207
Back
Top