CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

  • #41
I’ve wondered if she took that drastic step in order to publicly distance herself from Daniel in order to protect Meadow, especially with the possibility of a looming threat of CPS involvement.

There was that heated argument on the property and I imagine it was within earshot of the police or others involved in the investigation. Add to that the commotion of the search and the conditions of the home, and it may have made it a boiling point for the police where Meadow’s welfare was concerned. They may have wanted Meadow to leave the property and be separate from Daniel.

Daniel downplayed CPS’s involvement and I initially didn’t find that to ring true, but maybe it was. Officials may have wanted to placate him to keep involved and talking because of the ongoing search. I’ve heard the questions about why hasn’t he been charged with drug possession or child endangerment or abuse, and I imagine the police have had to choose their battles as the two children are missing, and likely on Daniel’s family’s property. They can get warrants, but having him and his family as allies and cooperative is important at the moment. Or maybe losing some rights to his children will be seen as punishment enough.

The argument at the home was about possible drug use and Daniel having something to do with the disappearance, so I think the police or CPS decided to shield Meadow from him until they could establish that she was safe in his care. He has been very vocal this whole time, but we haven’t heard that he’s regained custody of her or that he now has unsupervised visits, so I think there were good reasons involved with him losing custody, and there’s a chance the issues may be ongoing. The last we’ve heard he also hasn’t had visits by his other two children either.

Malehya leaving and changing her FB status to single, all while cutting Daniel off, might have something to do with showing CPS and the world that Daniel would have no access to Meadow if Meadow is in her custody.

It may have been clear to Malehya during that SAR briefing that she was at a crossroad, and her mother being present gave her options she otherwise may not have previously had. The possible tone of the briefing may have added to that. The police during SAR searches tend to give very sober assessments of the situation. It was near freezing over the first night and the children were likely underdressed and exposed to the elements. So by the afternoon of day two, the police may have said that those conditions, and also the statistics for finding them alive in that dangerous terrain after so many hours, were working against them. Meanwhile, Meadow possibly needed to be out of that environment. So maybe Malehya decided to save the one child in her arms.

Why she hasn’t made visible efforts in the search while separate and apart is a big mystery to me. It may come down to the perimeters of the search area and who the property owners are. If it’s primarily Daniel’s family’s land, she may feel she’s powerless. But she has a voice and no shortage of media who would be happy to give her or a designated spokesperson a platform to keep the search alive in the minds of the public.

Meanwhile, two little children are likely mouldering on the ground and should be found and given the respect of a proper burial. It seems they were neglected at points in their lives, taking care of them in death is the least they deserve.

^^My views only, based on what I’ve gleaned from MSM coverage.

If I had to guess, Malehya left solely on account of her mother’s insistence. Had their relationship been estranged in the past, I’m thinking it might’ve been. Perhaps MBM didn’t reach out to her directly and it was another relative who informed her that her two grandchildren were missing. So the mother arrived on site and was dumfounded, totally disgusted at the family’s living conditions and so she demanded her daughter and the child go with her under threat of having Child Welfare remove Meadow if MBM didn’t cooperate.

The utter despair of the “homestead” could’ve also been at the centre of the two family’s feuding. We don’t know what the inside looked like but if a wrench on a doorjam was used to ward off bears, that doesn’t seem promising. They went elsewhere to do laundry so was there running water and a sewer system?

IIRC Malehya is no longer living with her mother. Sometimes fractured mother/daughter relationships never entirely heal.

Just my imagination as the mother has not granted an interview, the reason is often because she hasn’t got anything to say that she wants shared with the public.
 
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  • #42
There is absolutely no indication that DM physically abused the children, to the contrary actually.

“The newly released documents provide summaries of five statements Brooks-Murray provided to the RCMP. In her first police interview, she described Martell as "an involved parent who would help her especially when she was overwhelmed."

She said he wasn't aggressive with the children but "he had a voice they would listen to."

Brooks-Murray told RCMP there was never any physical discipline.”
In order for everything to be actual fact , the timelines , the descriptions of each other and of the morning by all 3 adults present .somebody has to be lying .

If we speculate it that between 8.48 and 9am janie heard the kids ( cant remember if it was before or after phone call with brother ron ) , DM out looking and calling at about 9.20am till 10. 40am or there abouts as in earliest interviews he said he arrived back and rcmp had arrived to the property which we now have a time of arrivial at 10. 27am . Malehya rang LE at 10.01am . Not much of a window for the kids to wander further than the perimeter of the search field .

I still wonder did the grid search go out in a circular fashion from the property so north ,south ,east and west or was it only to one side
 
  • #43
If I had to guess, Malehya left solely on account of her mother’s insistence. Had their relationship been estranged in the past, I’m thinking it might’ve been. Perhaps MBM didn’t reach out to her directly and it was another relative who informed her that her two grandchildren were missing. So the mother arrived on site and was dumfounded, totally disgusted at the family’s living conditions and so she demanded her daughter and the child go with her under threat of having Child Welfare remove Meadow if MBM didn’t cooperate.

The utter despair of the “homestead” could’ve also been at the centre of the two family’s feuding. We don’t know what the inside looked like but if a wrench on a doorjam was used to ward off bears, that doesn’t seem promising. They went elsewhere to do laundry so was there running water and a sewer system?

IIRC Malehya is no longer living with her mother. Sometimes fractured mother/daughter relationships never entirely heal.

Just my imagination as the mother has not granted an interview, the reason is often because she hasn’t got anything to say that she wants shared with the public.

They have what looks to be a drilled well behind the trailer, and the police and Janie said they searched the septic system. However, we don’t know how well the electrical and plumbing systems were working or being maintained.

Malehya’s mother is a nurse, so she’s a mandated reporter. That extends out of the workplace. If she saw or was told of a possible abusive or dangerous situation at the home, she may have asserted her position.

To me, that might explain Daniel wanting to speak to Malehya alone and then swearing at Malehya’s mother when she stood in the way. It was her authority that he was going up against, imo.
 
  • #44
In order for everything to be actual fact , the timelines , the descriptions of each other and of the morning by all 3 adults present .somebody has to be lying .

If we speculate it that between 8.48 and 9am janie heard the kids ( cant remember if it was before or after phone call with brother ron ) , DM out looking and calling at about 9.20am till 10. 40am or there abouts as in earliest interviews he said he arrived back and rcmp had arrived to the property which we now have a time of arrivial at 10. 27am . Malehya rang LE at 10.01am . Not much of a window for the kids to wander further than the perimeter of the search field .

I still wonder did the grid search go out in a circular fashion from the property so north ,south ,east and west or was it only to one side

As for the times, that it varies is a good indication their stories weren’t a product of collution. It would be more suspicious if all the times perfectly matched up as none of them had any real need to clock watch as nobody was heading to work or school.

My understanding is the 8.5 sq km search area grid-searched surrounded the residence in all directions. It would be a very shoddy search if not, considering tracking dogs nor footprints were able to lead the searchers in any one direction. Wilderness searches are a common pursuit considering Canada’s topography so I’m very confident they knew what they were doing and it was as thorough as possible given the rough terrain.
JMO
 
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  • #45
There is absolutely no indication that DM physically abused the children, to the contrary actually.

“The newly released documents provide summaries of five statements Brooks-Murray provided to the RCMP. In her first police interview, she described Martell as "an involved parent who would help her especially when she was overwhelmed."

She said he wasn't aggressive with the children but "he had a voice they would listen to."

Brooks-Murray told RCMP there was never any physical discipline.”
Agree. LE had not named him a POI, and I haven't seen anything to indicate that he was anything other than a loving stepfather.
 
  • #46
I’m catching up on posts and probably missed discussion about Lilly going to sleep with her backpack. What does anyone make of that? (Guarding what was in it?)

They also confirmed that two pieces of Lilly’s blanket were found and they were part of a whole. One off Lansdowne Road, and another piece in the family garbage.

I wonder if Lilly was upset about the blanket being thrown out and decided to take it away from the house. Maybe building a fort with it around that spruce tree.
 
  • #47
Belynda Gray, the children's paternal grandmother, said she believed warning signs may have been missed in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

Gray said she is seeking more information about how the government responded to concerns about the children's home life and how the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) handled the early stages of its investigation.
[snip]
A child protection worker visited the children's home in the months before their disappearance, The Globe and Mail reported. The visit came after concerns were raised by someone at the children's school, according to the outlet. The findings of the investigation are shielded by privacy laws.
Lilly and Jack Sullivan update: Grandma calls for inquiry into missing kids

This suggests there were concerns about one or both parental figures in the home being less than loving or at the least neglectful JMO
 
  • #48
Belynda Gray, the children's paternal grandmother, said she believed warning signs may have been missed in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

Gray said she is seeking more information about how the government responded to concerns about the children's home life and how the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) handled the early stages of its investigation.
[snip]
A child protection worker visited the children's home in the months before their disappearance, The Globe and Mail reported. The visit came after concerns were raised by someone at the children's school, according to the outlet. The findings of the investigation are shielded by privacy laws.
Lilly and Jack Sullivan update: Grandma calls for inquiry into missing kids

This suggests there were concerns about one or both parental figures in the home being less than loving or at the least neglectful JMO


Given that information regarding child involvement of social workers is fiercely protected by privacy laws, if there is even a remote chance the children are alive it will NEVER be published.

But a clue is in the bolded point below. It would be a cause for the school to file a report if Malehya failed to follow through with developmental testing. She mentioned ‘possible autism’ more than once so there must’ve been conversations about it. But by not getting a formal diagnosis the school wouldn’t be able to provide adequate education as it is mandated to do, most likely through the assistance of a teachers aide. So I think that’s what happened and DM was fully truthful when he said the CPS involvement pertained to the children’s developmental issues at school.

The report isn’t necessarily about something nefarious going on. If known abuse was occurring even after the children disappeared the parents could still be charged, but that didn’t occur. And I don’t think the RCMP could conclude no criminal involvement was involved in the children’s disappearance if it was known or even suspected that the children were being abused.
JMO

BBM
Child protection services are about protecting children 18 or younger from abuse and neglect, while making every effort to keep families together. There are 4 different kinds of child abuse:
  • physical abuse: the intentional use of force on any part of a child's body that results in injury
  • emotional abuse: anything that causes serious mental or emotional harm to a child, which the parent does not attempt to prevent or address
  • sexual abuse: the improper exposure of a child to sexual contact, activity or behaviour
  • neglect: any lack of care that may cause significant harm to a child's development or endangers the child in any way
 
  • #49
Given that information regarding child involvement of social workers is fiercely protected by privacy laws, if there is even a remote chance the children are alive it will NEVER be published.

But a clue is in the bolded point below. It would be a cause for the school to file a report if Malehya failed to follow through with developmental testing. She mentioned ‘possible autism’ more than once so there must’ve been conversations about it. But by not getting a formal diagnosis the school wouldn’t be able to provide adequate education as it is mandated to do, most likely through the assistance of a teachers aide. So I think that’s what happened and DM was fully truthful when he said the CPS involvement pertained to the children’s developmental issues at school.

The report isn’t necessarily about something nefarious going on. If known abuse was occurring even after the children disappeared the parents could still be charged, but that didn’t occur. And I don’t think the RCMP could conclude criminality was not involved in the children’s disappearance if it was known or even suspected that the children were abused.
JMO

BBM
Child protection services are about protecting children 18 or younger from abuse and neglect, while making every effort to keep families together. There are 4 different kinds of child abuse:
  • physical abuse: the intentional use of force on any part of a child's body that results in injury
  • emotional abuse: anything that causes serious mental or emotional harm to a child, which the parent does not attempt to prevent or address
  • sexual abuse: the improper exposure of a child to sexual contact, activity or behaviour
  • neglect: any lack of care that may cause significant harm to a child's development or endangers the child in any way
I find neglect and lack of care that may cause significant harm to a child's development or endangers the child in any way just as nefarious as physical, mental, or sexual abuse.

JMO and we do not have to agree on the topic of whether there has been no suggestion that either parent was anything but loving to the missing children.
 
  • #50
as to RCMP concluding there was no criminal involvement I see that differently as well.

an unidentified investigator writing in court documents we do not know the date of "At this point in the investigation, Jack and Lilly's disappearance is not believed to be criminal in nature. I do not have reasonable grounds to believe a criminal offence has occurred."

means to me that that unnamed investigator hasn't found sufficient grounds of criminal involvement in this case.

The RCMP maintained that they had not ruled out any scenario while the files were being assessed under the Missing Persons Act.
Lilly and Jack Sullivan update: Polygraph test results revealed

MOO IMO
 
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  • #51
If one parent was abusive or neglectful, there has been ample opportunity for the other to share that with RCMP, yet RCMP's position as of now is that the disappearance is not criminal in nature. So I have to assume that neither parent is suspected of abuse or neglect.

If the children's behavior was such that children's services became involved, I think that rests with MBM; DM has no legal obligation or ability to address the behavior with the school, agree to autism assessments, etc. We call him stepdad as shorthand, but he's really just mom's BF.
 
  • #52
as to RCMP concluding there was no criminal involvement I see that differently as well.

an unidentified investigator writing in court documents we do not know the date of "At this point in the investigation, Jack and Lilly's disappearance is not believed to be criminal in nature. I do not have reasonable grounds to believe a criminal offence has occurred."

means to me that that unnamed investigator hasn't found sufficient grounds of criminal involvement in this case.

The RCMP maintained that they had not ruled out any scenario while the files were being assessed under the Missing Persons Act.
Lilly and Jack Sullivan update: Polygraph test results revealed

MOO IMO

The children went missing on May 2nd. As at July 16th the RCMP did not believe the case was criminal in nature. We don’t know if that changed or if that was the most recent document in the package that was released. But during those 2 1/2 months couch detectives had DM about to be arrested…..meanwhile he wasn’t even a suspect! That was a wrong road ahead.

“The redacted records, which were released at the request of CBC News, the Globe and Mail and the Canadian Press, include 12 record-access orders filed by RCMP and reveal that as of July 16 investigators did not believe the case was criminal in nature.”
 
  • #53
The children went missing on May 2nd. As at July 16th the RCMP did not believe the case was criminal in nature. We don’t know if that changed or if that was the most recent document in the package that was released. But during those 2 1/2 months couch detectives had DM about to be arrested…..meanwhile he wasn’t even a suspect! That was a wrong road ahead.

“The redacted records, which were released at the request of CBC News, the Globe and Mail and the Canadian Press, include 12 record-access orders filed by RCMP and reveal that as of July 16 investigators did not believe the case was criminal in nature.”
again, we do not have to agree and it is unlikely we will sway one another's opinions on this matter.

MOO is that RCMP's most recent official stance has been that they continue to investigate all aspects of this case. regardless of what an unnamed investigator stated on a report dated July 16. RCMP is still investigating this missing children case. Therefore, they haven't concluded anything.
 
  • #54
If one parent was abusive or neglectful, there has been ample opportunity for the other to share that with RCMP, yet RCMP's position as of now is that the disappearance is not criminal in nature. So I have to assume that neither parent is suspected of abuse or neglect.

If the children's behavior was such that children's services became involved, I think that rests with MBM; DM has no legal obligation or ability to address the behavior with the school, agree to autism assessments, etc. We call him stepdad as shorthand, but he's really just mom's BF.

Yes, especially if there was evidence of known physical abuse caused by either one, human nature would typically have one not hesitant to implicate the other especially in a broken relationship. Abuse has been talked about for so long It’s as if it’s become fact.

So I agree, I don’t think the report was for abuse or neglect in the traditional way it’s thought of. It was because the children required their learning disabilities to be diagnosed. I suspect this is an issue in today’s world, more than is talked about, considering all the different labels in the field of neurodevelopment science. Reluctance toward testing might simply be due to narrow- minded stereotyping or fearful of blame/shame by parents and accusations of causing it.
JMO
 
  • #55
Given that information regarding child involvement of social workers is fiercely protected by privacy laws, if there is even a remote chance the children are alive it will NEVER be published.

But a clue is in the bolded point below. It would be a cause for the school to file a report if Malehya failed to follow through with developmental testing. She mentioned ‘possible autism’ more than once so there must’ve been conversations about it. But by not getting a formal diagnosis the school wouldn’t be able to provide adequate education as it is mandated to do, most likely through the assistance of a teachers aide. So I think that’s what happened and DM was fully truthful when he said the CPS involvement pertained to the children’s developmental issues at school.

The report isn’t necessarily about something nefarious going on. If known abuse was occurring even after the children disappeared the parents could still be charged, but that didn’t occur. And I don’t think the RCMP could conclude no criminal involvement was involved in the children’s disappearance if it was known or even suspected that the children were being abused.
JMO

BBM
Child protection services are about protecting children 18 or younger from abuse and neglect, while making every effort to keep families together. There are 4 different kinds of child abuse:
  • physical abuse: the intentional use of force on any part of a child's body that results in injury
  • emotional abuse: anything that causes serious mental or emotional harm to a child, which the parent does not attempt to prevent or address
  • sexual abuse: the improper exposure of a child to sexual contact, activity or behaviour
  • neglect: any lack of care that may cause significant harm to a child's development or endangers the child in any way

The neglect to cause significant harm to their development would take a lot of noncompliance from the parent to reach this point typical. I already know - Canada is different - but I don’t see missing one or 2 a points filing for CPS involvement likely. Rather enough that it impacted their development if this is why they were reported
 
  • #56
The neglect to cause significant harm to their development would take a lot of noncompliance from the parent to reach this point typical. I already know - Canada is different - but I don’t see missing one or 2 a points filing for CPS involvement likely. Rather enough that it impacted their development if this is why they were reported

Yes no doubt it impacted their learning. Malehya admitted the children had fallen behind their classmates in school.

It’s perplexing, she admitted they might be autistic and they’d fallen behind at school yet she didn’t do anything to try to improve the situation. Curious why that would be? So the way I see it by the school filing a report with CPS, they may’ve wanted to move her forward into taking action. That’s not entirely negative as it was for the best interests of the children.
JMO
 
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  • #57
Given that information regarding child involvement of social workers is fiercely protected by privacy laws, if there is even a remote chance the children are alive it will NEVER be published.

But a clue is in the bolded point below. It would be a cause for the school to file a report if Malehya failed to follow through with developmental testing. She mentioned ‘possible autism’ more than once so there must’ve been conversations about it. But by not getting a formal diagnosis the school wouldn’t be able to provide adequate education as it is mandated to do, most likely through the assistance of a teachers aide. So I think that’s what happened and DM was fully truthful when he said the CPS involvement pertained to the children’s developmental issues at school.

The report isn’t necessarily about something nefarious going on. If known abuse was occurring even after the children disappeared the parents could still be charged, but that didn’t occur. And I don’t think the RCMP could conclude no criminal involvement was involved in the children’s disappearance if it was known or even suspected that the children were being abused.
JMO

BBM
Child protection services are about protecting children 18 or younger from abuse and neglect, while making every effort to keep families together. There are 4 different kinds of child abuse:
  • physical abuse: the intentional use of force on any part of a child's body that results in injury
  • emotional abuse: anything that causes serious mental or emotional harm to a child, which the parent does not attempt to prevent or address
  • sexual abuse: the improper exposure of a child to sexual contact, activity or behaviour
  • neglect: any lack of care that may cause significant harm to a child's development or endangers the child in any way

The children were meant to be assessed had they not gone missing, so that alters everything where an evaluation can be made, imo. Their side of the story hasn’t officially been heard or investigated as far as we know.
 
  • #58
The children were meant to be assessed had they not gone missing, so that alters everything where an evaluation can be made, imo. Their side of the story hasn’t officially been heard or investigated as far as we know.

Yes visit had ready occurred, which assumably then led up to an appointment having been made for the assessment had they not gone missing. We don’t know what the evaluation would’ve been, I merely repeated the mother’s own comments about possible autism.

“A child protection worker visited the children's home in the months before their disappearance, The Globe and Mail reported. The visit came after concerns were raised by someone at the children's school, according to the outlet. The findings of the investigation are shielded by privacy laws.”
 
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  • #59
I think that prior to calling children services the school probably reached out to the mother multiple times with concerns, possibly offering referrals for interventions or other types of services and for whatever reason she didn't take advantage of those. At some point the behaviors were not improving, the mother was not taking any steps to try to help address the behaviors, and the school had no choice but to make a children's services referral.

Without going too deep down a rabbit hole about why she wouldn't want children services interventions or any other type of interventions with her children, I can't help but think that there's a chance that the disappearance happening between that children services visit and the scheduled autism assessment is not a coincidence.
 
  • #60
The neglect to cause significant harm to their development would take a lot of noncompliance from the parent to reach this point typical. I already know - Canada is different - but I don’t see missing one or 2 a points filing for CPS involvement likely. Rather enough that it impacted their development if this is why they were reported
I agree, and also think it even more unlikely that CPS sent a memo about Lilly and Jack "up the chain" in government the day they disappeared & another one less than 2 weeks later solely related to developmental issues being a concern which may not have been addressed adequately by their (ETA: "custodial") parents.

Not sure where their mom's partner DM, who they were living with on his family's property and being raised by with mom, who is the father of their half sibling -- or their bio dad -- may fit in or if it was all on their mom and only her to address those issues of concern.

JMO
 
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