CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[TMich6811]

I’m not expert on what happens after death. Someone else who knows better can you chime in here. At this point how difficult will it be to get a cause of death if they do find them?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I understand wanting to conduct the investigation with the dogs without any public interference—but ‘officer safety concerns’? I don’t understand that (does anyone have any ideas?) We have had incidents here in NS and NB where officers were targeted, but they didn’t mention this during the initial searches. That makes me think that it isn’t a boilerplate explanation. Why officer safety concerns now?

And I’m relieved and happy that they’re doing this. Right now in NS, the leaves on the trees are turning colour and are beginning to fall. Because of the months of little precipitation, a lot of grass and foliage dried up, so it may be a good time for a ground search, imo. Also, the forecast is sunny and warm this week and next, and there aren’t many bugs out in the daytime.

This is also incredibly sad and my heart is with everyone involved, especially the family.

I hope the officers and dogs involved stay safe.

Great post! I'm wondering as well what it means about safety concerns, and am so hopeful LE can conduct their searches now undisturbed.

I think it may be their concerns about safety during renewed searches with cadaver dogs right now, 4 months on from Lilly and Jack disappearing, when they were not used before, could be fraught... for lack of a better term... with people who may act against them during the new searches.

Just a guess on my part.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Great post! I'm wondering as well what it means about safety concerns, and am so hopeful LE can conduct their searches now undisturbed.

I think it may be their concerns about safety during renewed searches with cadaver dogs right now, 4 months on from Lilly and Jack disappearing, when they were not used before, could be fraught... for lack of a better term... with people who may act against them during the new searches.

Just a guess on my part.

TY

That didn’t occur to me that if they were killed that the person or persons involved may interfere with the search.

I’m wondering if warrants are involved. We have had cases where the police give a soft warning before executing a warrant. Even if they’re completely not involved in a crime, some people do not want to cooperate with police requests or warrants.

I’m guessing they may be monitoring some people and may be looking to see how they react to the news of the upcoming search. (Speculation.)

 

[Twistinginthewind]

TY

That didn’t occur to me that if they were killed that the person or persons involved may interfere with the search.

I’m wondering if warrants are involved. We have had cases where the police give a soft warning before executing a warrant. Even if they’re completely not involved in a crime, some people do not want to cooperate with police requests or warrants.

I’m guessing they may be monitoring some people and may be looking to see how they react to the news of the upcoming search. (Speculation.)

Yeah, well, as a subheading in the MSM article I posted a link to today, it said new court documents had been uploaded as well today, regarding warrants, etc. Perhaps they're only regarding their plans to search anew on the property or around it that DM and his family members live on.

I will click on that subheading link and look into that when I have a chance.

 

[tlcya]

I’m not expert on what happens after death. Someone else who knows better can you try them in here. At this point how difficult will it be to get a cause of death if they do find them?

unless ME can locate markings o skeletal remains that indicate stabbing, gunshot, or animal predation (highly unlikely) IMO it will be nearly impossible to ascertain COD if bodies are one day located.

 

[Judy Sleuth]

unless ME can locate markings o skeletal remains that indicate stabbing, gunshot, or animal predation (highly unlikely) IMO it will be nearly impossible to ascertain COD if bodies are one day located.

I think I've read that poisoning or chronic health conditions can also be detected by testing the bone chemistry. Does anyone have better info on whether that's truly possible?

 

[TMich6811]

I think I've read that poisoning or chronic health conditions can also be detected by testing the bone chemistry. Does anyone have better info on whether that's truly possible?

What about drug ingestion?

 

[TMich6811]

I think I've read that poisoning or chronic health conditions can also be detected by testing the bone chemistry. Does anyone have better info on whether that's truly possible?

This is what I was fearful of with the having waited so long if they are found

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It will be dicey, IMO, if their bodies are found during the new searches with cadaver dogs 4 months after they died.

But, if their remains are found, it would be primarily the condition of their bones that would be discoverable and revealing as to their CODs conducted during their autopsies.

Any fractures or dismemberment or those kinds of evidence, IMO.

Likewise, if their bones are found in tact, it would point to them having died without any trauma to their bodies beyond their flesh, which would have decayed away since then.

I'm heartbroken to be typing this right now....

But if their remains are found during the upcoming searches, the condition of their skeletal remains would be key in determining their CODs.

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I think I've read that poisoning or chronic health conditions can also be detected by testing the bone chemistry. Does anyone have better info on whether that's truly possible?

On another missing person case I followed here on WS a few years ago, (will need to go back to look it up to refresh my memory)...

There was a verified forensic expert in analysis in the laboratory who tested remains for everything under the sun, who responded to my questions about this -- being able to detect chemicals/drugs in bones/bone tissue, and how long after they were deceased they would be detectable.

And they said pretty much everything would still be detectable within 12 months of death, and sometimes longer depending on the chemical/drug/substance they had ingested before dying, but sometimes shorter (within 3 months) for more volatile chemicals/drugs/substances that would naturally offgas during a shorter timeframe.

MOO, and paraphrasing here until I have a chance to look up the specifics on that case and their response.

 

[Sillybilly]

It is a violation of Websleuth's rules to sleuth family members.

it is fine to discuss what they may have said in MSM or what has been said about them in the media, but their personal social media is off limits.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

"The RCMP would not confirm when the cadaver dogs would be deployed, citing safety concerns, but did say it wouldn't be this weekend."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rcmp-says-cadaver-dogs-will-be-deployed-to-search-for-missing-n-s-children-1.7638195

LE cited "safety concerns" in terms of not confirming when the cadaver dogs would be deployed.

Wow... I hope they can do their work on this undisturbed after all this time... JMO

This jumped out at me too - the safety concerns. In your post it sounds like safety concerns in general (MBM, DM, family, public? Who?) and in the quote I posted below it sounds like safety for LE?

Is the officer safety mentioned because they don't want a 'suicide by police' type situation? Or just because of the news where police are targets of violence in general? I don't recall seeing this mentioned much in Canadian MSM or crimes before. MOO JMO

RCMP confirmed Friday that searches will be taking place but would not provide details on dates, times or locations.
A spokesperson told Global News they were withholding that information “in consideration of the investigation and officer safety.”

N.S. missing kids: Cadaver dogs to be used as RCMP announce new searches | Globalnews.ca

Police dogs trained in detecting human remains will be taking part in upcoming searches for Lilly and Jack Sullivan -- two young siblings who went missing more than 4 months ago.

globalnews.ca

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I understand wanting to conduct the investigation with the dogs without any public interference—but ‘officer safety concerns’? I don’t understand that (does anyone have any ideas?) We have had incidents here in NS and NB where officers were targeted, but they didn’t mention this during the initial searches. That makes me think that it isn’t a boilerplate explanation. Why officer safety concerns now?

And I’m relieved and happy that they’re doing this. Right now in NS, the leaves on the trees are turning colour and are beginning to fall. Because of the months of little precipitation, a lot of grass and foliage dried up, so it may be a good time for a ground search, imo. Also, the forecast is sunny and warm this week and next, and there aren’t many bugs out in the daytime.

This is also incredibly sad and my heart is with everyone involved, especially the family.

I hope the officers and dogs involved stay safe.

Oops reading your post now after I posted mine with similar thoughts about officer safety and meaning of it...

I am very curious about this as well. It jumped out to me!

 

[MistyWaters]

Oops reading your post now after I posted mine with similar thoughts about officer safety and meaning of it...

I am very curious about this as well. It jumped out to me!

 

[Slebby]

If cause of death can’t be determined, I still think it’s possible to ascertain who was responsible. For example, if any of the personalities involved claimed they were in a location A doing activity X, but video cam evidence shows they weren’t there but were actually in location B doing activity Y, this lack of truthfulness could indicate guilt. Especially if bodies are found near location B.

I could be wrong, but I feel cautiously optimistic that the call for cadaver dogs now might be an indication LE has an idea where these children might be according to a theory of the case fleshed out thru forensic examination of video, phones, etc. I hope. It’s a sad outcome if cadaver dogs finally find them, but I wish for answers for the loved ones of these children.
IMHO

 

[MistyWaters]

We know the terrain is extremely rugged and rough. So I think the reason for not announcing when or where is simply so the public isn’t tempted to make the search into a spectator sport, which could endanger the officers by taking focus away from the task at hand. The dog handlers might not even be avid outdoorsman let alone skilled bush-wackers.

If the bodies are found I have a strong feeling the conclusion will be the children wandered from their home, accidental death, no foul play just as has been said all along.
JMO

 

[musicaljoke]

I understand wanting to conduct the investigation with the dogs without any public interference—but ‘officer safety concerns’? I don’t understand that (does anyone have any ideas?) We have had incidents here in NS and NB where officers were targeted, but they didn’t mention this during the initial searches. That makes me think that it isn’t a boilerplate explanation. Why officer safety concerns now?

And I’m relieved and happy that they’re doing this. Right now in NS, the leaves on the trees are turning colour and are beginning to fall. Because of the months of little precipitation, a lot of grass and foliage dried up, so it may be a good time for a ground search, imo. Also, the forecast is sunny and warm this week and next, and there aren’t many bugs out in the daytime.

This is also incredibly sad and my heart is with everyone involved, especially the family.

I hope the officers and dogs involved stay safe.

The forest floor is starting to be covered with fallen leaves, hiding potential crevasses, downed limbs, rocks, and other dangers that would create safety concerns for the officers walking in the forest. Please don't forget that this area suffered extensive damage from a hurricane just a couple of years ago. Trees are twisted one upon the other. There are widow-makers caught up in the branches of broken trees. It's not a safe place for anyone. This is not a park.

 

[starlightstarbright]

I raised up 7 kids, never partied or anything like that while doing it, and ended up having miserable nights awake with babies/toddlers countless times. To be fair, there really are all sorts of other reasons DM and the children's mom were sleeping in that morning, other than them staying up late with guests. To which, DM has already said the rumored party the night before isn't true. So, there's also that.

Same, I agree in a sense, BUT if I had a lousy night up with a toddler and needed to catch up on sleep, my husband, if he wasn’t at work, which DM wasn’t, would have been up with the older ones, making breakfast, getting them dressed, supervising them (and probably the toddler too, because they can certainly be up all night and then still wide awake at 6am ready for the day).

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The forest floor is starting to be covered with fallen leaves, hiding potential crevasses, downed limbs, rocks, and other dangers that would create safety concerns for the officers walking in the forest. Please don't forget that this area suffered extensive damage from a hurricane just a couple of years ago. Trees are twisted one upon the other. There are widow-makers caught up in the branches of broken trees. It's not a safe place for anyone. This is not a park.

I’m aware. Part of my property is forested and I’m now familiar with the Lansdowne area.

I believe they have a brief window of calm, dry weather with no hurricanes on the horizon to search safely, imo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

“Sgt. Dave Whalen and his dog Kitt will join Insp. Luke Rettie and his dog Narc to conduct the searches over the coming days and weeks, RCMP said. Both are based in British Columbia.

The two children went missing from this home on Gairloch Road in Lansdowne Station, about 20 kilometres southwest of New Glasgow, on May 2, 2025. (Josh Hoffman/CBC)
[…]

There is no definitive timeline on how long the scent can remain detectable, as it depends on the size of the person and environmental factors, said Pike. But he noted a case in which a dog uncovered material related to an investigation two years later from the ocean floor at low tide.

They're also able to detect scents underwater and underground. Even in challenging environments like septic fields or landfills, the dogs can be effective because human decomposition is unique.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rcmp-say-cadaver-dogs-will-be-deployed-to-search-for-missing-n-s-children-1.7638195