CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[musicaljoke]

I'm really starting to feel the kids were never in the woods .

One line from the article peaked my curiosity and I would love to hear more expierenced posters take on it .
' investigators would not talk about what investigative theories they had "
If we rule out criminality and abduction and a possibility no wandering took place what other theories are possible.

The police have not publicly ruled out criminality, abduction or wandering. The careful wording of their news release indicates that nothing has been ruled out.

 

[musicaljoke]

The point you make here about the possibility of an unofficial or off the record cps person or persons arranging an off the books type adoption is a thought thst crossed my mind .

There has been Whispers / rumours of this type of scenario happening in my country regarding missing teens and kids who were once under cps care being carted off secretly to other countries for a new start / better life . I don't know if they are just conspiracy or malice so don't quote me ,it's just something I heard from a relative whom through work would come into contact with menial workers in these child protection facilities.

From my perspective I couldn't see this happening but its a big wide world and corruption is part of it

There would be an email trail, or bank irregularities, or witnesses, or unusual vehicle activity, or airport video, or evidence of an irregular passport. Taking a child out of Canada is no easy task. This is not nearly as simple as one could imagine.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Newest thoughts (and maybe completely wrong):
What, if the parents had a meeting at the mall, where they had been seen to be shopping. This meeting wasn't video taped by surveillance cameras, because someone knew, where exactly cameras aren't placed (public toilet?). The children were for a reason given to someone unknown (to us/LE), rather NOT family, and Lilly and Jack didn't get home in the evening. Afaik, nobody has confirmed, that the children returned to their mobile home with their parents.

The following night the children didn't sleep in their clothing, they were wearing all day, and Lilly didn't sleep with her backpack. They weren't at home at all and also weren't in their beds. They were already absent, forever.

Afaik, we heard nothing from the evening and nothing from the night. Oh wonder, there was nothing to tell by DM. We only heard a story from the morning, which must be fictitious. It didn't happen. Why DM's mother allegedly heard children in the morning at a certain time, I don't know. Did she lie? Did DM, very sophisticated, play a voice recorder with children's chatter and his mother didn't recognize it, because she didn't come outside? On the other hand, repairing a fence (DM) and shoveling somewhere for a swimming pool (his mother) seems odd, when just then the 2 children "disappear" - looks like an alibi for both of them ("I wouldn't have done it, if I had known; so I am innocent.").

How it went from there on, we all know.

I can think of a CPS person, who knew people or a pair, who unofficially wanted 2 children. The CPS person persuaded MB to give her children away, promising, that MB in some form can keep in touch with her children. It was known, that MB was overwhelmed with her duties and wanted to get away from DM, therefore she agreed. DM didn't mind getting rid of the tiresome children (and didn't know, that MB would run away afterwards). So both agreed, then created their story of the disappeared siblings, beginning their lies with Lilly and Jack being annoying in the morning, when the parents wanted to stay in bed. Both adults MB and DM now have to stay with their story and aren't able and willing, to throw the other partner under the bus (despite separation!!).

Yes, the woman with the golden car, waiting at the open backdoor of her car, and the 2 children walking along a road in the direction of the car, doesn't fit my theory at all. IF the children were indeed Lilly and Jack, then they came from home, and my newest story is invalid ......

All MOO and speculation!

Anything is possible, including an arranged new home, IMO. I hadn't thought of someone(s) with CPS being part of it, but posted my speculation early on their parents or relatives could have, as well as they could have been sold.

I could see CPS workers and/or school staff and/or family/friends coming up with a plan offsides/unofficially and just doing it for their protection.

But that's just me. Either way, there was enough time between last sighting and the 911 call to have pulled it off (and make up a cover story under one or more scenario if so).

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

There would be an email trail, or bank irregularities, or witnesses, or unusual vehicle activity, or airport video, or evidence of an irregular passport. Taking a child out of Canada is no easy task. This is not nearly as simple as one could imagine.

Good points. Unless it was all done in person "on the underground", e.g., using burner phones, moving at night, ditching vehicles, etc.

I'll look again for a link to an official governmental website or support service where human trafficking methods and trends are described around the thousands of people that are believed to be moved through NS.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

I took that to mean, that normally if the dogs don't alert the handlers it suggests that they're not in the presence of human remains. However, that's not a sure thing, since they could be in the presence but the odor is somehow unable to be detected. Possibly concealed somehow with chemicals or something? My speculation.

When I think about all the cases I've followed over the years where cadaver dogs totally missed finding remains, it makes more sense what Staff Sgt. Pike said here. Basically, dogs aren't infallible. A google search says they're roughly 95-98% effective.

jmo

exactly. Any person of normal intelligence IMO would know that dogs aren't infallible. That's kind of my point. A whole lot of words to say what should be obvious to the point that it means literally nothing.

 

[tlcya]

Virtually everything mentioned on these threads occurred well before July 16th when LE indicated to the court they did not believe the case was criminal in nature.

There’s no need for the RCMP to publish their theories, they never do that. But if this case has become a criminal investigation there is absolutely no harm in stating that. The alternative is an RCMP officer on the witness stand being questioned by a defence attorney about why he or she has reason to believe the accused is innocent.
JMO

so is the premise that because LE didn't suspect criminal involvement on July 16th and they haven't told us they've changed their opinion on that it must mean they still think no criminal involvement or foul play? Because investigations evolve, new evidence comes to light, and RCMP hasn't exactly been putting out daily updates.

their most recent statement on this was from this week and it continues to be:

“There are multiple aspects of this investigation ongoing simultaneously,” said Staff Sgt. Rob McCamon, officer in charge of major crime and behavioural sciences.

“Each piece of information, including the results from the search teams, helps inform our next steps. With support from agencies across Canada, the investigative team is working to validate or eliminate leads and follow the evidence wherever it takes us.

He added that RCMP are still "considering all possibilities."

"We’ll keep going until we determine, with certainty, the circumstances of the children’s disappearance and they’re found," said McCamon.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...-search-for-lilly-and-jack-sullivan-9.6931359

MOO until this is solved the investigation continues and therefore no conclusion can be made that this disappearance of two tender age children is not criminal in nature.

 

[dotr]

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Oct 8, 2025 #missing #search #news
Police officers in Nova Scotia are doing everything they can to search for two missing children, Lilly and Jack Sullivan, according to Staff Sgt. Rob McCamon. He is Nova Scotia RCMP's officer in charge of major crime and behavioural sciences. McCamon spoke with the CBC's Aly Thomson.

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[Slebby]

Yesterday my mind was fixated on the “wrench on top of door bear alert system”.
Today I’m puzzling over the “5-speed vehicle coming and going” report.

I am wondering if it’s possible the car came and went, unbeknownst to DM and MBM. I know I’ve slept through things, like thunderstorms, my hubby coming or going in the wee hours. And I’m a terrible sleeper! Even my dog can be inconsistent in his alerts, and he’s a pretty good watchdog. He can somehow hear and go ballistic over someone walking up the road half a km away, but not wake from a nap until the plumber has driven up the drive, and walked in the house. So Janie’s dog alerting or not means little to me.

In fact, as I wonder about the 5 speed car, it sort of could connect to my wondering about the “bear alert wrench”. If DM was actually worried about human visitors, maybe the 5 speed car was those very people DM worried about.

This is where I hope MBM and DM have been very forthright with LE about any dealings they may have had with scary individuals, perhaps in the drug world. LE is certainly under no obligation to share these avenues of inquiry publicly.

My only other theory of the 5 speed is that it was someone wishing to “rescue” the children from what this someone may have perceived as a bad situation. Say, a teacher, aide, close or distant family, friend, associate, someone who cares, someone who saw the latest black eye and said “no more”, who knows? This is a happy theory, for it suggests the children are alive.

In either theory, the reason for multiple trips was to get a sense of the environment, to peek inside, to try to get in without making any noise, who knows?

Just me, scratching my itchy mind.

IMHO

 

[MistyWaters]

so is the premise that because LE didn't suspect criminal involvement on July 16th and they haven't told us they've changed their opinion on that it must mean they still think no criminal involvement or foul play? Because investigations evolve, new evidence comes to light, and RCMP hasn't exactly been putting out daily updates.

their most recent statement on this was from this week and it continues to be:

“There are multiple aspects of this investigation ongoing simultaneously,” said Staff Sgt. Rob McCamon, officer in charge of major crime and behavioural sciences.

“Each piece of information, including the results from the search teams, helps inform our next steps. With support from agencies across Canada, the investigative team is working to validate or eliminate leads and follow the evidence wherever it takes us.

He added that RCMP are still "considering all possibilities."

"We’ll keep going until we determine, with certainty, the circumstances of the children’s disappearance and they’re found," said McCamon.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...-search-for-lilly-and-jack-sullivan-9.6931359

MOO until this is solved the investigation continues and therefore no conclusion can be made that this disappearance of two tender age children is not criminal in nature.

Yes definitely the RCMP could’ve changed the direction of their investigation after July 16th. But what was it after that time that wasn’t apparent for the prior two and a half months?

Even if the bodies had been found, if a close family was responsible, DNA isn’t going to solve the case. At this point in time, more than five months have passed, what will? In Canada there’s been convictions without successful recovery of the bodies so I don’t think it can be that. My fear is the more time that passes, the less the chance of the disappearances ever being solved.

I don’t quite believe someone out there knows something and has stayed silent for this length of time, considering the reward that’s been offered.
JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

My gut tells me these kids are alive and were taken. If they were killed at their home, don't you think the police would have found some indication. It is hard to clean everything plus, why kill two kids.

My gut feeling is the same and I'm hopeful they are still alive somewhere.

Purely hypothetically --- if they were murdered at their home --

It's possible they were drugged into unconciousness or death and wrapped up in something like a rug and their bodies were taken away in the middle of the night and left somewhere far enough away from the "they must have wandered" search area for there to be no evidence of anything like that having occurred.

As far as why two kids at once, there's a potential scenario under which they were drugged to calm them down and/or help them sleep, and it ended up causing their deaths.

My speculation only, on this hypothetical scenario, in response to the hypothetical questions posed.

I don't think this is what happened in this case, but it's not been ruled out by LE, that they could have died at home without any evidence.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

My conclusion is they want the public to believe the investigation is leading somewhere when it’s not.

Only possibility left that I can think of is if the RCMP believe the children might’ve been voluntarily placed in a caregiving family home, but then why not say it?
JMO

If LE believes that is one possibility, they may not have any proof of it (e.g., beyond tips/rumours), nor anything else, so are sticking with "nothing ruled out yet".

It's agonizing for 5 months to have gone by with no solid leads on what happened to little Jack and Lilly, but I'm still holding out hope there must be something within LE's investigation that will lead to a break in the case.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

The Province is offering a reward of up to $150,000 for information about the disappearance of Lilly and Jack Sullivan.
[snip]
The reward is payable in Canadian funds and will be apportioned as deemed just by the Minister of Justice for the Province of Nova Scotia. Employees of law enforcement and correctional agencies are not eligible to collect this reward.
Rewards for Major Unsolved Crimes | novascotia.ca

 

[Ontario Mom]

The Province is offering a reward of up to $150,000 for information about the disappearance of Lilly and Jack Sullivan.
[snip]
The reward is payable in Canadian funds and will be apportioned as deemed just by the Minister of Justice for the Province of Nova Scotia. Employees of law enforcement and correctional agencies are not eligible to collect this reward.
Rewards for Major Unsolved Crimes | novascotia.ca

Sad to see Jack and Lilly join the other 19 cases there, of "missing persons".

 

[Sarahlou]

Sad to see Jack and Lilly join the other 19 cases there, of "missing persons".

Yes, I was just looking through some of those. They all seem to have the same reward amount. One on there missing for 50 years! It's very sad to never get closure.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Yes, I was just looking through some of those. They all seem to have the same reward amount. One on there missing for 50 years! It's very sad to never get closure.

I read them all. One missing man has the same birthday as me. Another vanished in 1971. Heartbreaking, all of it.

 

[iveyguy]

I posted this in July in a previous thread: There are 100+ missing persons cases in Nova Scotia, yet only 3 rewards have been paid out over the last 19 years, with the last one seemingly in 2018. That's surprisingly few to me...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rewards-major-unsolved-crimes-cold-cases-nova-scotia-1.5437685

 

[MistyWaters]

If LE believes that is one possibility, they may not have any proof of it (e.g., beyond tips/rumours), nor anything else, so are sticking with "nothing ruled out yet".

It's agonizing for 5 months to have gone by with no solid leads on what happened to little Jack and Lilly, but I'm still holding out hope there must be something within LE's investigation that will lead to a break in the case.

JMO

I hope so too. The RCMP are well known for stating they follow the evidence, as opposed to developing a theory and seeking evidence to support it. But it might be their evidence hasn’t pointed in any one direction, yet they do seem optimistic.
JMO

BBM

Where are Jack and Lilly? Cadaver dogs fail to detect traces of missing N.S. children

RCMP teams trained in detecting human remains searched at the home where Jack and Lilly Sullivan went missing and in the surrounding area

nationalpost.com

“Each piece of information, including the results from the search teams, helps inform our next steps,” Staff-Sgt. Rob McCamon, a major crime investigator, said in the release.

With support from agencies across Canada, the investigative team is working to validate or eliminate leads and follow the evidence wherever it takes us. At this stage, and as we’ve said all along, we’re considering all possibilities. We’ll keep going until we determine, with certainty, the circumstances of the children’s disappearance and they’re found.”

 

[Ontario Mom]

I posted this in July in a previous thread: There are 100+ missing persons cases in Nova Scotia, yet only 3 rewards have been paid out over the last 19 years, with the last one seemingly in 2018. That's surprisingly few to me...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rewards-major-unsolved-crimes-cold-cases-nova-scotia-1.5437685

This article from 2020 said there were 101 unsolved cases, not missing persons. Still, it's surprising to me as well only 3 people have ever been rewarded at that time. I had assumed those rewards programs were more successful than that.

 

[Muddy K]

Mostly a case summary but there is an interesting interview with an associate Prof. of criminology about how the stories of the missing are taken up by the media and how amateur sleuths can help or hinder investigations.

Four Months, No Answers: How Rumours Took Over a Missing Children’s Case in Nova Scotia | The Walrus

Since Lilly and Jack Sullivan’s disappearance in May, online sleuths have unleashed a storm of unwanted attention on their families

thewalrus.ca

It's refreshing to read a well-written article, too.

 

[Bigditch]

Mostly a case summary but there is an interesting interview with an associate Prof. of criminology about how the stories of the missing are taken up by the media and how amateur sleuths can help or hinder investigations.

Four Months, No Answers: How Rumours Took Over a Missing Children’s Case in Nova Scotia | The Walrus

Since Lilly and Jack Sullivan’s disappearance in May, online sleuths have unleashed a storm of unwanted attention on their families

thewalrus.ca

Not that enlightening.