CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Bigditch]

A car that was apparently off the road in need of repair ?

Or was it an atv and not a car . Some atvs can be noisy and also have very bright headlights and in intial reports it was stated it was a five speed which can indicate an off road vehicle

Dbm

 

[su5ie]

I wish I could join them.

Such a beautiful, heartfelt post

 

[su5ie]

Dbm

 

[Bigditch]

I do indeed my friend

Hah. I just removed the post. Don't want to get caught up in the firestorm. Having said that, I thought DM's father was his neighbour?

 

[Bigditch]

Nothing to indicate the neighbours would deliberately mislead but since this tip wasn’t given to the RCMP until six days after the children went missing, the same date the search was initially called off, the neighbours might’ve gotten the date wrong.

All those those searchers, drones and helicopters converging day after day, wouldn’t it have occurred to the neighbours to notify authorities of their important information the very next day instead of waiting almost an entire week? It’s not unusual for people to hear or see something, then learn of a an incident and later thinking about it the two events get merged together even if the dates don’t coincide. This is one of the main reason that tips often don’t pan out especially when the tips to LE come in several days later.

Depending on the location of trail cams, the RCMP may’ve already determined it didn’t occur the night of May 2nd as it doesn’t appear they’re very interested in this tip. After all, it wasn’t even redacted.
JMO

ETA - Is this to say that what was revealed in the documents is not involved in the Investigative process? Aka..Is not believed to be key in solving the case?

Documents reveal new witness statements to RCMP about missing N.S. children | Globalnews.ca

The RCMP agreed to release the new information ahead of a scheduled court hearing to review whether the information could be made public.

globalnews.ca

“The remaining redactions reflect ongoing concerns related to privacy and continued protection of the investigative process.”

Excellent point.

 

[su5ie]

Having said that, I thought DM's father was his neighbour?

Snipped by me for focus

DMs dad and uncle live on landsdowne Road, near his and janies property, I'm unsure as to where abouts they live in relation to him and if neighbours are dotted in between

 

[LadyL]

With not one but two separate individuals reporting about a vehicle coming and going in the night, I am personally convinced there was a vehicle that came and went in the night. Unless/until law enforcement explains it away, I also personally believe this is significant to the case.

IMHO

yeah me too ...

but what happened to the story that a neighbour was outside working on a car when they heard the loud vehicle coming and going?

 

[abanddb123]

Considering he waded through waist deep water too or maybe that was after as the vehicle would have been soaking wet if his clothing was .

And he was almost out running the helicopter he-he

 

[Slebby]

yeah me too ...

but what happened to the story that a neighbour was outside working on a car when they heard the loud vehicle coming and going?

I suspect that was one of these two witnesses, Wong or Smith.
IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if there’s a bit of misunderstanding over the content of documents recently released. The RCMP didn’t open up their investigative files to the public.

The information released is from documents referred to as ITOs (Information to Obtain means the information presented to a Judge under oath hopefully to support approval of a subpoena or search warrant). While it’s information in the hands of the RCMP, it’s not proven fact. It’s information being investigated to determine if it indeed pertains to solving the case.

At the time the ITOs were written, LE couldn’t predict the future results of a subpoena or search warrant. Perhaps it would solve the case. But by the time the media sought to unseal the ITO’s the RCMP would certainly know if the results of the subpoenas or search warrants proved significant or not. And judging by their more recent comments most of it was a ‘’not’.

I’m hoping this context might be helpful as the process is exactly the same in every investigation although the media does not publish the ITOs in every case.
JMO

Hypothetic, simple example -
Hank lives @ 18 Bull Cres and has CCTV showing the entire Cres.
LE receives a tip that Johnny @ 14 Bull Cres robbed a bank on Sept 1st, driving a red 1/2 ton.
LE must obtain a subpoena so they can obtain the Hank’s CCTV from that date to determine if Johnny was observed leaving the Cres in his red 1/2 ton. If his 1/2 ton didn’t leave the Cres, then he couldn’t have robbed the bank. But if we only read the ITO, well it says a tip reported that Johnny robbed the bank and so that’s what LE set out to investigate.

Documents reveal new witness statements to RCMP about missing N.S. children | Globalnews.ca

The RCMP agreed to release the new information ahead of a scheduled court hearing to review whether the information could be made public.

globalnews.ca

A spokesperson with the Nova Scotia RCMP said the police “initially sought to seal these ITOs in full, which is standard practice in sensitive investigations where the release of information could compromise the integrity – or future integrity – of the investigation.”

Portions of these redactions have been removed following the legal challenges brought forward by media organizations, Allison Gerrard said in an email Friday.

“The remaining redactions reflect ongoing concerns related to privacy and continued protection of the investigative process.”

 

[su5ie]

I wonder if there’s a bit of misunderstanding over the content of documents recently released. The RCMP didn’t open up their investigative files to the public.

The information released is from documents referred to as ITOs (Information to Obtain means the information presented to a Judge under oath hopefully to support approval of a subpoena or search warrant). While it’s information in the hands of the RCMP, it’s not proven fact. It’s information being investigated to determine if it indeed pertains to solving the case.

At the time the ITOs were written, LE couldn’t predict the future results of a subpoena or search warrant. Perhaps it would solve the case. But by the time the media sought to unseal the ITO’s the RCMP would certainly know if the results of the subpoenas or search warrants proved significant or not. And judging by their more recent comments most of it was a ‘’not’.

I’m hoping this context might be helpful as the process is exactly the same in every investigation although the media does not publish the ITOs in every case.
JMO

Hypothetic, simple example -
Hank lives @ 18 Bull Cres and has CCTV showing the entire Cres.
LE receives a tip that Johnny @ 14 Bull Cres robbed a bank on Sept 1st, driving a red 1/2 ton.
LE must obtain a subpoena so they can obtain the Hank’s CCTV from that date to determine if Johnny was observed leaving the Cres in his red 1/2 ton. If his 1/2 ton didn’t leave the Cres, then he couldn’t have robbed the bank. But if we only read the ITO, well it says a tip reported that Johnny robbed the bank and so that’s what LE set out to investigate.

Documents reveal new witness statements to RCMP about missing N.S. children | Globalnews.ca

The RCMP agreed to release the new information ahead of a scheduled court hearing to review whether the information could be made public.

globalnews.ca

A spokesperson with the Nova Scotia RCMP said the police “initially sought to seal these ITOs in full, which is standard practice in sensitive investigations where the release of information could compromise the integrity – or future integrity – of the investigation.”

Portions of these redactions have been removed following the legal challenges brought forward by media organizations, Allison Gerrard said in an email Friday.

“The remaining redactions reflect ongoing concerns related to privacy and continued protection of the investigative process.”

Thanks for the explanation, I did think the ITOs were information given to judge in order to obtain search and seize warrants . There is no way the rcmp will ever release investigation notes and files . The only way we will hear extracts from those is if it goes to trial ,which for the moment is not looking like its on the agenda

 

[su5ie]

I wonder was the names released because the two male witnesses waived their right to anonymity. How else would it be legal to release their names into the public domain ?

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder was the names released because the two male witnesses waived their right to anonymity. How else would it be legal to release their names into the public domain ?

Tips can be given anonymously. But if they’re not, once names become entered in court records, I don’t think those people have a right to anonymity. The media chose to print the names and they have lawyers on their payroll, so I’f be surprised if they were violating Canada’s privacy laws. But that’s just my opinion.
JMO

 

[Dreamcherry]

Anxiety would be ramped up in millions of mothers when kids are missing, social or otherwise it would seem more anxiety provoking to NOT venture outside to look for herself
I’ll never understand waiting for others to help or relying on

It all depends on your inherent personality and how your anxiety manifests. Some people are very avoidant, and that could be intensified in a situation of extreme stress. It's the fight/flight/freeze response. People saying they would be front and centre, making public pleas, probably have a fight response. They're going to be in your face, never letting go. Others will just shut down because they can't override the overwhelming fear; it just cripples them, and they freeze, unable to do anything. Some can't look into the abyss of that fear and try to run away from it entirely in self-preservation.

 

[seasideForest]

Why the need to check on them anyway?

I thought most parents check in on their young children before they themselves go to bed? Just peek through the doorway, using the light from the hall and using their ears to hear the children breathing.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I think that arguments that rest on the assumption that normal people would of course behave in a particular way have to be regarded with suspicion. Unless things are very clearly out of whack, I would feel safe in assuming that different people could plausubly react in particular ways. A mother who has mysteriously lost two of her children and has heard people assigning different levels of blame to her might well want to hide from the world.

 

[sunspun]

A car that was apparently off the road in need of repair ?

Or was it an atv and not a car . Some atvs can be noisy and also have very bright headlights and in intial reports it was stated it was a five speed which can indicate an off road vehicle

OK, now I'm getting confused. I know Mom had her "new-to-her" car there at the property, and I assume it was in working order. Daniel had a car of his own there as well? But it was one that was broken down? Do we know for a fact that it wasn't drivable? Or was it just not in perfect working order, needed repairs, and so wasn't being driven regularly?

I'd like to know if, on the night before they were reported missing, his vehicle was capable of starting at all or if it was capable of being driven short distances. Be nice to know if it had a dead battery or not on that night. If it was Daniel in his own (possibly badly-running vehicle), why wasn't he worried about the noise it made being late at night, etc.? He said Mahleya's vehicle is relatively silent, wouldn't that be preferable then? Maybe there was a reason to not use her new car for that purpose, whatever it was. Or maybe the parents were sound asleep, and these vehicle movements, very near their property, were completely unknown by them.

Also, if the vehicle heard by neighbors wasn't Daniel's, could it have been his ATV? Is that what the neighbor was implying when he specifically described it as a 5 speed? I wish a journalist would ask the neighbor about this, or maybe they have.

Has anyone asked Daniel about the neighbors' reports of a vehicle leaving their property that night? Or has he made any statements about that? The way the neighbor described the movements of the vehicle they heard that night sounds sinister to me and makes me worry. Very suspicious. What would any vehicle, no matter whose it was, possibly be doing that night to sound as it did, according to that neighbor? What is there to do within a few blocks or so of their home late at night, coming and going like that, multiple trips, in the dark??

 

[sunspun]

It may look so. But I think all he says is very important, even if does not have much sense at first (e.g. him saying in the early CBC interiew something like "the neighbor wants to take a heat off themselves" which is clearly a deflection). And we need to listen.

I know, with that statement, he's clearly more than just implying that this person is guilty - of SOMETHING. That is the only meaning his statement could have, unless I'm missing something. He's never said or been asked more specifically what he meant by that?

 

[OneLove]

It all depends on your inherent personality and how your anxiety manifests. Some people are very avoidant, and that could be intensified in a situation of extreme stress. It's the fight/flight/freeze response. People saying they would be front and centre, making public pleas, probably have a fight response. They're going to be in your face, never letting go. Others will just shut down because they can't override the overwhelming fear; it just cripples them, and they freeze, unable to do anything. Some can't look into the abyss of that fear and try to run away from it entirely in self-preservation.

And there is also a third possibility of a person being under the pharmacological chemical influence of medications and/or other substances that affect their ability to process & react as they would have otherwise. And while we're at it, let's also throw in the possibility of extreme sleep deprivation if a person has been awake all night long, *especially* if they've been in a state of cortisol overload.

In investigations, EVERY possibility is still on the table until such time that solid evidence takes it off the table.

 

[MistyWaters]

<snipped>
Has anyone asked Daniel about the neighbors' reports of a vehicle leaving their property that night? Or has he made any statements about that? The way the neighbor described the movements of the vehicle they heard that night sounds sinister to me and makes me worry. Very suspicious. What would any vehicle, no matter whose it was, possibly be doing that night to sound as it did, according to that neighbor? What is there to do within a few blocks or so of their home late at night, coming and going like that, multiple trips, in the dark??

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/lilly-jack-sullivan-missing-children-court-documents-car-vehicle-9.6943179

In a phone interview Friday, Martell said no one from the family left the property that night and they did not have any visitors.

He said the only vehicle that left the yard was on the morning the children went missing, when he took Murray-Brooks' SUV to look for the children.

"It's not loud by any stretch of the imagination," he said.

Martell said the RCMP never asked him about the vehicle coming and going.