CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[thor124]

<modsnip> ... what happens now , does it get filed as unsolved and does the team of detectives that were involved in the investigation get wound down and assigned to other cases until some new information comes to the fore . In other words does it become a cold case

With time I imagine that the number of dedicated investigators goes down, based on the work load. Given the high visibility of this case I suspect that several officers will remain dedicated to the case, even if they aren't making any progress.

 

[Bigditch]

It will be amazing to learn what all of us did not know when this case is solved.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It will be amazing to learn what all of us did not know when this case is solved.

Usually I find it rather amazing how much LE knew but never released to the public. I've sort of come to expect that now, since it's so common.

 

[BCSleuth]

With time I imagine that the number of dedicated investigators goes down, based on the work load. Given the high visibility of this case I suspect that several officers will remain dedicated to the case, even if they aren't making any progress.

I am not as optimistic. Seems to me the RCMP has botched this case. In many cases they simply do not have the resources they need.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I just can't get the idea that someone saw these two beautiful children and that they've been trafficed. I felt the same with Summer Wells.

 

[Bigditch]

I just can't get the idea that someone saw these two beautiful children and that they've been trafficed. I felt the same with Summer Wells.

I think Summer Wells was taken by someone known to the family. Either directly or casually.

As for Lilly & jack it is possible they were abducted into a pedophile ring. Nothing is off the table that's for sure. I think the culprits would have needed to transport them swiftly out of the country though, within the first 24 hrs.

Maybe a crime has been committed against these two youngsters closer to home, and I don't mean their home (the trailer) but further afield in Nova Scotia. Jmo

 

[BCSleuth]

If anybody knew anything about these kids they would be coming after the $150,000 reward. You can rest assured that the children are deceased and nobody knows anything except for maybe the perp(s), if there are any.

If they were being trafficked that would be an easy $150,000 for one of the customers, would it not? Yes, it would implicate themselves but they can invent some story. "I was just trying to find these kids." I don't know why people love the trafficking theory so much. It is simply not a viable theory. No way, no day.

 

[Slebby]

If anybody knew anything about these kids they would be coming after the $150,000 reward. You can rest assured that the children are deceased and nobody knows anything except for maybe the perp(s), if there are any.

If they were being trafficked that would be an easy $150,000 for one of the customers, would it not? Yes, it would implicate themselves but they can invent some story. "I was just trying to find these kids." I don't know why people love the trafficking theory so much. It is simply not a viable theory. No way, no day.

I agree, I find the theory they were trafficked to require too much of a stretch of believability. In the short window of opportunity that they were allegedly out of earshot of DM and MBM, someone bent on trafficking them did what, came into their yard and grabbed them? Drove by the road just as J and L happened to wander there? Planned it, somehow knowing the kids would be kept home from school, and DM and MBM would be conveniently having a lie in? I don’t think so.
IMHO

 

[musicaljoke]

I agree, I find the theory they were trafficked to require too much of a stretch of believability. In the short window of opportunity that they were allegedly out of earshot of DM and MBM, someone bent on trafficking them did what, came into their yard and grabbed them? Drove by the road just as J and L happened to wander there? Planned it, somehow knowing the kids would be kept home from school, and DM and MBM would be conveniently having a lie in? I don’t think so.
IMHO

In addition, police have stated that there is no evidence of an abduction.

 

[su5ie]

If anybody knew anything about these kids they would be coming after the $150,000 reward. You can rest assured that the children are deceased and nobody knows anything except for maybe the perp(s), if there are any.

If they were being trafficked that would be an easy $150,000 for one of the customers, would it not? Yes, it would implicate themselves but they can invent some story. "I was just trying to find these kids." I don't know why people love the trafficking theory so much. It is simply not a viable theory. No way, no day.

I agree, I find the theory they were trafficked to require too much of a stretch of believability. In the short window of opportunity that they were allegedly out of earshot of DM and MBM, someone bent on trafficking them did what, came into their yard and grabbed them? Drove by the road just as J and L happened to wander there? Planned it, somehow knowing the kids would be kept home from school, and DM and MBM would be conveniently having a lie in? I don’t think so.
IMHO

Logically I also believe this theory to be stretch of the imagination.

It would require too much of the known details to have been preplanned well in advance so that a trafficker could seize the opportunity.

DM and MBM may have casually dropped into conversation that the kids would not be attending school on the Friday due to illness while at grocery shopping in New Glasgow but no-one could have preplanned that all 3 adults on site would stay or return to bed and that the children would go outside unsupervised .

Someone would also have to follow them home and be laying in wait overnight as rcmp have stated no evidence of a vehicle during the night and with the stretch of road consisting of family members and few other neighbours, would a strange vehicle and a lurker not be noticed quickly ?

I understand that gold / tan car lady has a right to privacy but out of curiosity I would love to know if this angle has been ruled out . We got an update regarding the vehicle during the night tips , why not also give the stance on this ?

 

[Dreamcherry]

Does anyone think this is conflicting, from documents so in one statement DM states he rarely checked his phone or used it and in the other statement he says he never leaves home without it

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I hadn't realized the grandmother lived in Truro. I'm exhausted just thinking about driving to a second location an hour away with three kids to do multiple loads of laundry, then driving an hour back home.

 

[Dreamcherry]

Logically I also believe this theory to be stretch of the imagination.

It would require too much of the known details to have been preplanned well in advance so that a trafficker could seize the opportunity.

DM and MBM may have casually dropped into conversation that the kids would not be attending school on the Friday due to illness while at grocery shopping in New Glasgow but no-one could have preplanned that all 3 adults on site would stay or return to bed and that the children would go outside unsupervised .

Someone would also have to follow them home and be laying in wait overnight as rcmp have stated no evidence of a vehicle during the night and with the stretch of road consisting of family members and few other neighbours, would a strange vehicle and a lurker not be noticed quickly ?

I understand that gold / tan car lady has a right to privacy but out of curiosity I would love to know if this angle has been ruled out . We got an update regarding the vehicle during the night tips , why not also give the stance on this ?

The only way trafficking would make sense in this situation is if a family member trafficked them (yes, this happens frequently), and I just don't see that happening here. NS does have a trafficking problem, and native persons are more likely to be victims, but trafficking doesn't look like a random stranger abduction. It's a process, and with children, it would involve some level of grooming. Nothing about this fits the profile of trafficking, imo.

 

[Dreamcherry]

I thought of that as a possibility. However, I don’t picture a 4 or 6 year old as brave and selfless enough to jump in and rescue the other. Adding the undiagnosed autism in both children, it seems unlikely to me, imo.

I actually lost a schoolmate that way, a long loong time ago. They were at the beach, and he jumped into the water to save his younger cousin from drowning. They were about 8 and 4, and they both perished, sadly. I found out the first day of school after the summer holidays, and I will never forget it, or him.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I can definitely envision a scenario under which Lilly and Jack were taken to "go live" with another family (or worse, trafficked with no promise of a loving family) far away.

IMO, it didn't have to be an opportunistic total stranger abduction or total stranger who took them to traffic them for profit.

LE/RCMP has said they don't think they were / have no evidence of them being abducted.

However, they still could have been taken with good planning to leave no trace (e.g., using burner phones, knowing cell towers to avoid using electronics near which could track a signal & that it was such a remote location it would be easier to take them than in a densely populated area) and perhaps working in collusion with someone close by or closer to them who wouldn't be as suspicious as a stranger or would be good at hiding their involvement.

They could have been lured to come outside ahead of time through the offer of something appealing like the promise of a big treat or adventure, which could have been why their parents said they were excitedly chatting in the privacy of their bedroom the night before, they slept in their clothes, Lilly had her backpack with her by the bed & may have left with it (a secret message slipped to her on where to meet & when), and most importantly IMO, them leaving quietly, IIRC.

If they were taken, the person(s) could have been lving or operating within the outer circles of their community or families, someone with known or peripheral connections to them or even some time random access to them, who had their own motives.

They could have been either deluded they would be acting in their best interest/arranging a place for them to be taken care of if there was neglect or abuse and/or to benefit financially.

So could have been someone who knew them or knew of them & perhaps also needed money & thought they all would be better off....

And they could have heard through the grapevine of or knew someone who worked the trafficking circuit & could get them far away quickly & were experienced at how to keep it all under wraps regardless of pressure/an intense investigation & rewards by LE.

IIRC, it was well over a week after searching for them close to home and having wandered before RCMP said they were shifting the focus of their investigation outward into the community, region, other regions, etc. By then, if they were taken and moved quickly via trafficking networks of any stripe, which are known to be operating in their region, they & the perps & any intelligence besides road, toll or bridge cameras would have been long gone. And traffickers know how to move people without being recorded, IMO.

JMO, trafficking is not off the list if they were handed over to the pros by someone(s) who had inside knowledge of their circumstances & schedule that week not attending school & thought they could make it look like it did at first, that they wandered, while they were being transported far away by well disguised perps, colluders, vehicle(s) and savvy traffickers.

JMO

 

[Dreamcherry]

I can definitely envision a scenario under which Lilly and Jack were taken to "go live" with another family (or worse, trafficked with no promise of a loving family) far away.

IMO, it didn't have to be an opportunistic total stranger abduction or total stranger who took them to traffic them for profit.

LE/RCMP has said they don't think they were / have no evidence of them being abducted.

However, they still could have been taken with good planning to leave no trace (e.g., using burner phones, knowing cell towers to avoid using electronics near which could track a signal & that it was such a remote location it would be easier to take them than in a densely populated area) and perhaps working in collusion with someone close by or closer to them who wouldn't be as suspicious as a stranger or would be good at hiding their involvement.

They could have been lured to come outside ahead of time through the offer of something appealing like the promise of a big treat or adventure, which could have been why their parents said they were excitedly chatting in the privacy of their bedroom the night before, they slept in their clothes, Lilly had her backpack with her by the bed & may have left with it (a secret message slipped to her on where to meet & when), and most importantly IMO, them leaving quietly, IIRC.

If they were taken, the person(s) could have been lving or operating within the outer circles of their community or families, someone with known or peripheral connections to them or even some time random access to them, who had their own motives.

They could have been either deluded they would be acting in their best interest/arranging a place for them to be taken care of if there was neglect or abuse and/or to benefit financially.

So could have been someone who knew them or knew of them & perhaps also needed money & thought they all would be better off....

And they could have heard through the grapevine of or knew someone who worked the trafficking circuit & could get them far away quickly & were experienced at how to keep it all under wraps regardless of pressure/an intense investigation & rewards by LE.

IIRC, it was well over a week after searching for them close to home and having wandered before RCMP said they were shifting the focus of their investigation outward into the community, region, other regions, etc. By then, if they were taken and moved quickly via trafficking networks of any stripe, which are known to be operating in their region, they & the perps & any intelligence besides road, toll or bridge cameras would have been long gone. And traffickers know how to move people without being recorded, IMO.

JMO, trafficking is not off the list if they were handed over to the pros by someone(s) who had inside knowledge of their circumstances & schedule that week not attending school & thought they could make it look like it did at first, that they wandered, while they were being transported far away by well disguised perps, colluders, vehicle(s) and savvy traffickers.

JMO

Agreed, if trafficking happened, it would look more like this. People who are trafficked are lured by something that exploits a weakness: job security, a place to live, even residency in the case of immigrants. Vulnerable people are told they can be taken out of poverty, precarious living arrangements, abusive households, homelessness. In the case of children, they can be promised a stable family, which is why many are lured from group homes or the streets. Someone gets close enough to the indivual/s to build trust, start planting the seeds of a better life until they convince them to go along. It's insidious manipulation and exploitation. There would have to be someone very close to the children doing this level of work. A 4 and 6-year-old aren't likely to be trafficked by anyone other than a family member, and mostly for the production of CSAM. You generally see the grooming of children for trafficking start around 12-13, and a lot of it is done online now.

God, it's a sick world.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Agreed, if trafficking happened, it would look more like this. People who are trafficked are lured by something that exploits a weakness: job security, a place to live, even residency in the case of immigrants. Vulnerable people are told they can be taken out of poverty, precarious living arrangements, abusive households, homelessness. In the case of children, they can be promised a stable family, which is why many are lured from group homes or the streets. Someone gets close enough to the indivual/s to build trust, start planting the seeds of a better life until they convince them to go along. It's insidious manipulation and exploitation. There would have to be someone very close to the children doing this level of work. A 4 and 6-year-old aren't likely to be trafficked by anyone other than a family member, and mostly for the production of CSAM. You generally see the grooming of children for trafficking start around 12-13, and a lot of it is done online now.

God, it's a sick world.

I see it the same way if they were trafficked. Unfortunately, and JMO based on what I know of Lilly and Jack's home life and circumstances, they could have been vulnerable to the "insidious manipulation and exploitation" of someone who knew they could be somewhat "easy prey".

The fact that LE hasn't dismissed publicly AFAIK the witness testimony on the morning they disappeared who said they saw 2 children "roughly" matching their descriptions on the road near their home walking towards a woman holding the back door of a car open on the side of the road -- & if them they were described as wearing different outfits which could have been disguises -- makes me even more inclined to lean towards them being taken quietly & quickly by someone manipulating them into going somewhere appealing to them, even if just described as a temporary day out having fun.

Even if the witness's descriptions of the older girl & younger boy holding hands and walking on the side of the road towards a woman with a gold/tan car didn't exactly match Lilly and Jack in age & known manner of dress, it still could have been them, IMO, and LE has not disputed that sighting as unrelated to their disappearance or unsubstantiated, as they have with some of the other witness testimony.

JMO

 

[seasideForest]

I actually lost a schoolmate that way, a long loong time ago. They were at the beach, and he jumped into the water to save his younger cousin from drowning. They were about 8 and 4, and they both perished, sadly. I found out the first day of school after the summer holidays, and I will never forget it, or him.

That's very sad, I'm sorry you experienced that as a child. Of course you wouldn't forget something like that.

Depending a bit on the children concerned, there's still quite a difference in development between 6yo like Lilly and 8yo. I think a 6yo would be less likely to try and save a younger sibling.
JMO

 

[Dreamcherry]

My mind keeps going back to MBM telling the RCMP that CS might have brought the kids to NB. Not because I think it happened, but because I want to know WHY she felt that was a possibility. What's in NB that relates to him or her or the kids? Does he have family here? What specific reason made that scenario pop into her brain? There has to be some background there—just curiosity on my part, I guess, as an NBer.

 

[su5ie]

I see it the same way if they were trafficked. Unfortunately, and JMO based on what I know of Lilly and Jack's home life and circumstances, they could have been vulnerable to the "insidious manipulation and exploitation" of someone who knew they could be somewhat "easy prey".

The fact that LE hasn't dismissed publicly AFAIK the witness testimony on the morning they disappeared who said they saw 2 children "roughly" matching their descriptions on the road near their home walking towards a woman holding the back door of a car open on the side of the road -- & if them they were described as wearing different outfits which could have been disguises -- makes me even more inclined to lean towards them being taken quietly & quickly by someone manipulating them into going somewhere appealing to them, even if just described as a temporary day out having fun.

Even if the witness's descriptions of the older girl & younger boy holding hands and walking on the side of the road towards a woman with a gold/tan car didn't exactly match Lilly and Jack in age & known manner of dress, it still could have been them, IMO, and LE has not disputed that sighting as unrelated to their disappearance or unsubstantiated, as they have with some of the other witness testimony.

JMO

I think given the timing's of the sighting and the throughly done search with nothing being found . I feel its a strong possibility this is lilly and jack .

I think the fact the RCMP are remaining so tight-lipped is because if there is a slim possibility that the kids are still alive they don't want to jeopardise this lead in the investigation and spook a capture into killing them .

Whether it was planned or opportunistic idk