Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Jen-Knee]

Whatever job search may have been done, wouldn't police have found evidence of it by now? Did they ever go to BS and KM respective homes with warrants to search through their computers and personal items? We never heard about that. Nor have police ever talked about them using their cellphones during the course of their 'spree'. Surely their phones would have been pinging towers all along their route.

Police searched both of their homes during the Manitoba manhunt.
Police search B.C. homes of teens wanted in nationwide manhunt | The Star

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes good point. It'll be the journalists putting in access to info requests down the road and getting more info if it isn't provided.

I can’t recall one case in Canada where the media has been given access to police murder files, aside from evidence presented in court. Do you? From what I can find it appears only personal information held by the RCMP is covered under POI requests.

Freedom of information requests (RCMP) | Courthouse Libraries BC
Freedom of information requests (RCMP)
LAST REVISED MAY 24, 2019
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police Access to Information and Privacy Branch (ATIP) provides formal responses to access to information requests under the Access to Information Act (RSC 1985, c. A-1) and the Privacy Act (RSC 1985, c. P-21).

There is no difference between a request made by an individual, lawyer, the media, or politicians. You will receive the same information if you send in the request yourself or if you hire a lawyer to act on your behalf. Furthermore, a request is not processed faster if it is sent by someone representing you. Requests are handled on a first come first serve basis. Community status or professional titles will not slow down or expedite the processing of a request.

Privacy Act
The Privacy Act provides individuals the right to seek access to their personal information that is held by the federal government, as well as to govern the collection, use, disclosure, retention and disposal of personal information....”

 

[scrappinkat]

I believe butterflies are symbolic of resurrection, transformation or transition from an old life to a new life. I’ve no idea if they knew this or even if Bryer changed his IG photo while on the road, but it would explain all those pink butterflies. JMO

I wonder what the snapchats cat and dog filters are symbolic of?

 

[bcgirl]

That makes no sense. If she last talked to them on July 13th or 14th obviously they would not have gotten there by then. And it also wouldn't be "a few days later" from July 12th. There has to be a mistake either in the reporting or her recollection of the date. Most likely she talked to Bryer after the first two murders and in that case it would make sense why they would lie.



I recommend going a page or two back and reading them then, so I don't have to restate what I've already said a bunch of times.

This is the first I'm hearing of them going on a vacation. IIRC, I heard they were supposed to meet in Nanaimo, which is where they usually met since it was kind of a halfway point between Port Alberni and Victoria.

Didn't AS stay in a motel in PA when he came to visit BS.....in a news article earlier on , the motel owner stated he stayed there once or twice a month when visiting BS??

 

[Lalalacasbah]

In that case it definitely wasn't Kam and Bryer that deleted them. They were most likely dead by the 27th and they definitely didn't have internet out in the wilderness.

Unless they deleted their profiles right before their suicides.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I've thought that from the beginning just based on the pics they gave RCMP. Friendly, smiling, unthreatening, clear pic of their kid versus the blurry paramilitary-looking image of Bryer.

I've always wondered why Bryer's family chose that picture, when there were better looking ones out there. I think he's even wearing camo in it.

And my opinions have gone back and forth on it. But I've always thought Kam looks eerily focused and determined while also very tense and cagey, like he's propelled by pure adrenaline and force of will at that point. Bryer seems fidgety and like a space cadet, but that look on his face when he's leaving the store. That's the most peaceful expression I've seen on his face in any picture or image of him.

I've thought for awhile that Bryer had decided on suicide long before Kam, and I think, minus his freakouts when he feared capture, he was kind of enjoying being along for the ride with his best friend, away from his troubled homelife, maybe engaged in what he considered one of his little militia adventures.

I think Kam looks more wired because he hadn't reached that point yet of accepting suicide as the only alternative to capture and still thought there was some way out. And I suspect that's why they lived a few days in the woods. Kam still hadn't reached that point yet. I think they killed themselves when Kam finally broke.

All MOO.

It is interesting that Bryer was freaking out during the times when it was possible someone might be onto them. I think both of them were terrified of going to prison, and being separated, more than anything else. I think Kam was also terrified of death, at first anyway. Bryer may not have been afraid of death at that point, but I think what he was afraid of was either that they would get captured before Kam got to the point of wanting to kill himself, or that something bad would happen to Kam.

The video would give us a lot of insight into this, I think.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Unless they deleted their profiles right before their suicides.

They were like 70 miles away from any civilization. How would they have gotten internet access?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes that appears to be Kam in the background... I was wondering if Bryer was drinking hard liquor but I can’t tell for sure.

I can't figure out that bottle either! Could be some exotic soft drink I suppose... or liquor.

 

[MistyWaters]

As for them choosing LF and CD, why would they just drive down a random road, and then expect to find a young couple? They would have had to head south from where they were. So they decide to murder these two, then head north again? Why not just keep heading south, then keep going east? Their movements don't add up.

Your comments reminded me of this -

“Crime Opportunity theory suggests that offenders make rational choices and thus choose targets that offer a high reward with little effort and risk. The occurrence of a crime depends on two things: the presence of at least one motivated offender who is ready or willing to engage in a crime, and the conditions of the environment in which that offender is situated, to wit, opportunities for crime. All crimes require opportunity but not every opportunity is followed by crime.”
Crime opportunity theory - Wikipedia

 

[cartman]

In my mind the butterfly picture is symbolic of how it was the two of them together until the end.

Edited to remove quote but I’ll say Sherlock Holme’s theory is so simple yet it makes a lot of sense.

 

[bcgirl]

Just curious is there a significance to this motel do you know? Is it close to the highway? Maybe it's between their two homes and easy to meet at?

Here I go being cynical (yet serious) again... another detail that sounds right out of a movie. They don't meet at a Booster Juice or Tim Hortons to get a drink/snack for the road but allegedly at a motel that kinda looks right out of a movie. The motel looks kinda old-fashioned or something a bit kitchsy to me, JMOO.

View attachment 200150

The motel owner reported that AS stayed at the motel while visiting BS in PA.

 

[NJSleuth91]

In my mind the butterfly picture is symbolic of how it was the two of them together until the end.

But why such a happy and innocent looking picture instead of a creepy murdery one? Like the Columbine shooters had a whole "together until the end" thing and the pictures and videos they took were meant to look as evil and intimidating as possible. And we know Bryer took some creepy murdery pictures on his own (although I don't think he looked nearly as intimidating as he was trying to look). I could be wrong but I've never heard of a case where a spree killer duo's last message to the world was "we love each other!! best friends for life!! <3 <3"

 

[Zella]

As for what Bryer is drinking in that one pic, I can't tell. But I have always assumed it was vodka. To match the Slav squat pose. MOO

 

[Jan424]

On the question of did they or didn't they have a plan that included murder, I find myself thinking about their demeanour in the video from the Meadow Lake Co-op.

They are reasonably well-groomed and clean. They don't have any obvious physical signs of having been involved in a physical altercation - I don't see bruises or scratches. I also don't see obvious signs of serious fatigue or dishevelment such as might occur if you were up all night for a few nights in a row - perhaps you were driving, perhaps you were having trouble sleeping because your adrenaline was running high? Maybe we think we can see some anxiety in KM's expression, but is that because we think it should be there? To me, they seem pretty "calm, cool and collected".

If murder was not part of the plan, and was seriously unexpected, wouldn't you think there would be a lot of freaking out?

The Meadow Lake video was taken on July 21. The burning camper/truck as well as LD's body were found on July 19. Google maps says it's a 24 hour drive from Dease Lake to Meadow Lake. Seems to me that it would take a fair amount of focus to get on the road in the car you just stole and drive that far, if you were really freaked out by what happened.

Definitely MOO.

See, that Co-op video is something I keep going back to. If I keep viewing it, of course I can see things differently each time, knowing what we know now. But I always believe first impressions are the most true the majority of the time, which was that they definitely were looking fairly chill given they allegedly recently murdered three people. Groomed yes, that too. Plus, who knows what they were looking for, but Kam didn’t appear as though he was entirely focused on anything specific. Sure, he was looking around, but with somewhat of a nonchalant demeanor. Bryer wasn’t looking at all, he was too busy fiddling with his buttons or something. Upon leaving, Kam’s expression looked harder than Bryer, more focused, maybe even knowing they were likely screwed. Bryer looked more anxious to be sure, but not much. So yea, I have to agree, if this all just started as a robbery gone from bad to worse to horrific, how can they keep that level of cool? MOO, for sure.

 

[missy1974]

I can’t recall one case in Canada where the media has been given access to police murder files, aside from evidence presented in court. Do you? From what I can find it appears only personal information held by the RCMP is covered under POI requests.

Pickton's case. After the first long trial, he still faced more murder charges. After the Crown stayed those charges, they released alot of information.

 

[cartman]

But why such a happy and innocent looking picture instead of a creepy murdery one? Like the Columbine shooters had a whole "together until the end" thing and the pictures and videos they took were meant to look as evil and intimidating as possible. And we know Bryer took some creepy murdery pictures on his own (although I don't think he looked nearly as intimidating as he was trying to look). I could be wrong but I've never heard of a case where a spree killer duo's last message to the world was "we love each other!! best friends for life!! <3 <3"

Because I think they really did love each other and made a pact to the end.

<modsnip>

 

[ErinBat]

The RCMP needs to release some information. I understand their intentions to to do a full investigation but I find it a bit ridiculous and somewhat suspicious that they are holding back this long.

 

[Jan424]

The weird thing is that it's pretty much the least murdery picture you could imagine. You would think if they were trying to send a final message, it would be a picture of them looking intimidating, along the lines of the pictures Bryer sent to his friends on Steam. Generally whenever you think back on the last communications of teenage spree killers, in all cases it's something like that.

Instead it's a picture of them both looking really happy (I think that's the happiest Bryer has looked in any of the pictures of him as a teenager out there), smiling, with their arms around each other, just looking like two lifelong best friends chilling. Plus the addition of butterflies, which could have been a joke, or not. Maybe it was a symbol of transformation, or love for each other, or whatever...or maybe even trolling. But honestly, given that these guys seemed to be "Trailer Park Boys" levels of dumb, I think that level of symbolic nuance may have been beyond them.

Either way, if it was posted after the murders, that would be probably the most bizarre last message I've ever heard of. I've never heard of anything like that happening before.

Yes it’s an extremely happy picture of them together. Maybe that’s the point.... they were happy doing what they were doing together till the end. I mean, who really knows. As for the butterflies, it’s just interesting since a few posters believe the picture was changed while they were joy riding. And I don’t think they were the brightest bulbs on the tree, but I disagree with trailer park boys dumb. Admittedly tho, K & B knowing butterfly symbolism is a long shot. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Because I think they really did love each other and made a pact to the end.

I agree that they did love each other. And whether it was planned or not, I think once they were in it, they were never going to abandon each other. It would have made logical sense for them to try to pin the murders on each other, or even just separate to evade detection -- and most murder duos that don't immediately kill themselves, do those things -- but I don't think those ideas even crossed their minds.

But even so...it would be a very bizarre choice of final photo, if it was changed after the murders. You would expect some kind of militia looking thing, especially because Bryer was into that kind of thing. There aren't any other cases I know of where a happy, smiling picture like that would be used as a final message. Although, I also haven't heard of any other cases where the murderers seemed to be as close as these two were.

<modsnip: If you can't discuss it then don't hint at it.>

 

[cherrytree9]

I can't figure out that bottle either! Could be some exotic soft drink I suppose... or liquor.

Looks like it's a bottle of Russian Standard Vodka to me.