Canada - USA Trade War commencing March 2025

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  • #861
I, too, suspect:

Create Chaos
Make the Chaos international
Make the Chaos national
But, surely, make the Chaos personal at the level of jobs, healthcare, and social security.

Keep everyone off balance so they can't follow the shell game which leads to absolute unchallengeable power.
I"ve been listening and watching serious commentators and I think Trump sees himself as having taken over a huge and important corporation: he is the Chairman and CEO of the USA, Inc.

So he does what the bold, brash CEOs do: shake up the company to get rid of 'dead wood', define the core mission and jettison anything that doesn't directly improve the bottom line, identify and target the competitors, put pressure on suppliers to get better deals or eliminate external suppliers by a take-over and do it in house...


The obvious problems are
- a nation is not a business
- he's never been a CEO of even a complicated business
- Most business turn-arounds happen over 15 years, not 4...

So, I think the chaos is a result, not the intention...

But he will certainly work to prevent himself from being challenged as Chairman and CEO.

JMO
 
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  • #862
It's interesting. There has been a sudden wave of US Congressional Representatives who are Republican who have suddenly developed an aversion to having town halls, where they have to talk to their consituents. You know, the people in the districts they represent.

Sudden epidemic of cowardice.

The Representative whose district includes part of Yosemite is particularly nasty and disparaging of the needs of his constituents since the National Park Service and Forest Service firings.

 
  • #863
Am I wrong to think the problem is being inverted?

The US is (rightfully) upset about the amount of drugs, etc. coming in from Mexico because of the cartel. Then why don't they ensure those things can't get in?

Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but if I dont want my neighbour's dog coming into my house, it's just as much my responsibility to ensure it doesn't get in, as it is my neighbour's.
(The problem of addiction itself might be too complicated to discuss here; however, unless everyone, including politicians, educates themselves about what it is, there is no way to deal with it. JMO.)

But, say, you have a neighbor country whose economy you can't neglect - it is 15th in the world - but who also has areas of extreme poverty with bad access to education. Crime groups always spring in such areas. Cartels are no different. What criminals smuggle in, reflects the market requirements. Could be booze, drugs or something totally different.

Economically: Mexico is the largest exporter of all Latin American countries. It is 15th economy in the world (some say, the 12th, but I took Mexican data) . Its biggest export is into the US; its biggest import is from US. US has huge investments into Mexican economy, after all.

And, it has two presidents, the previous and the current one, that were/are reasonable.

What happens if you impose tariff war which means, impoverished legal economy?

One, you push the country to look for other partners.

Two, impoverished country sends more drug traffic across the border, that's obvious.

There is a way to work together with Mexican government regarding the cartels. They are a pest for everyone.

There is a way to deal with them in the US, too.

There is the way to deal with the border that is, you know, own complex factor.

Cutting off legal ways to make money makes illegal problems worse, not better. JMO.
 
  • #864
Very true- nothing is free. US companies are charged market value for access to trees (either buy private land, or pay market value to lease public land). Canadian stumpage fees, however are below market value.
I don't really understand the problem, but I have heard about softwood lumber issues since 1980.

If the USA doesn't like the Canadian softwood lumber industry, the USA should produce their own, or get lumber somewhere else. It's an open market. The 40% tariff should help people make decisions about whether they want high quality, environmentally harvested Canadian quality lumber, or something local.

Since this has been an issue for 50 years, what has the USA done to fix their problem besides complain?
 
  • #865
If Carney wants the Conservative vote, which is entirely possible, he has to repeatedly state that he will pave the way for West-North-East oil exports to new markets. That is the priority for Western Canada, something that Trudeau strategically blocked. Carney has to prove between now and the next election that he supports the interests of Western Canadians, not just Eastern Canada (as with Trudeau).

I'm hoping the fact that he grew up in Edmonton curries him favour with western Canada. Obviously he'll have to also offer them substance, but he seems like a good candidate for uniting Canada.
 
  • #866
I don't really understand the problem, but I have heard about softwood lumber issues since 1980.

If the USA doesn't like the Canadian softwood lumber industry, the USA should produce their own, or get lumber somewhere else. It's an open market. The 40% tariff should help people make decisions about whether they want high quality, environmentally harvested Canadian quality lumber, or something local.

Since this has been an issue for 50 years, what has the USA done to fix their problem besides complain?

Don't worry, Trump has a plan to start clearcutting in federally protected national forests.
 
  • #867
I'm hoping the fact that he grew up in Edmonton curries him favour with western Canada. Obviously he'll have to also offer them substance, but he seems like a good candidate for uniting Canada.
Yes, it should make a difference, but we have to see it to believe it. No one in Western Canada trusts Trudeau after he land locked natural resources, but still expects equalization payments so that Alberta provides financially for all of Canada. Carney has from now until the election to put his money where his mouth is.
 
  • #868
Trudeau had a minority government, so a lot of people were unhappy with him, but it took an internal party revolt to finally get rid of him. Carney as a replacement is brilliant. Canada is facing threats against sovereignty unseen by today's Canadians (not unheard of in Canadian history).

Canadians need to elect the best man to defend the country, someone with a plan to radically change the future of Canada's economic relationships. Carney is well positioned to do that.

If Carney wants the Conservative vote, which is entirely possible, he has to repeatedly state that he will pave the way for West-North-East oil exports to new markets. That is the priority for Western Canada, something that Trudeau strategically blocked. Carney has to prove between now and the next election that he supports the interests of Western Canadians, not just Eastern Canada (as with Trudeau).

Increased salaries for Canadian military personnel, better pensions and better care for the wounded will go a long way in Ontario, and with all those across Canada who have family in the military.

New global trade partners and strengthened military are the best response to tariffs and threats against sovereignty. Remove the control that Canada gave the USA through trust and treaties, take back control of Canada, become a respected, reliable, trustworthy world leader again.

I'd agree with all of the above with the caveat that "Canadians" must insist upon it. And must insist that it is carried through with by whichever government we put in next.

There is no follow through if Canadians do not make it so. Defence and economic security are huge moderate-Canadian (both Liberal & Conservative) values and moderates tend to swing their vote based upon the party platforms presented (aka 'promised') during campaigns. It's why we swing back and forth between the two moderate parties being seated as government.

I say, "insist upon it", precisely because a lot of promises to do such were made by JT his first time at bat to do exactly that. "Pipeline". "Look after or Vets". A promised: informed-by-Canadians committment to National Defence via "Strong, Secure, Engaged" aka 'SSE'.

He got a lot of Conservative votes precisely because of those promises. Then, after he was elected "SSE" was published and while it looks really nice on paper, we military people noted that he had committed "not one dime" to actually making it happen. Pipelines? Nope - he canned them. Looking after vets? Huge fail.

The people I know who are conservatives and whom voted for the Liberals that go 'roud, are the people that Polievre is talking to. The ones tired of seeing, living and experiencing the broken promises - PP simply called that promise-breaking out. There's a lot of us who agree with him. That does not make us anti-Canadian or un-Patriotic ... rather a vast many of us are exactly the opposite. The Liberals also need to remember that. It's kind of akin to the "deplorables" comment by Clinton. A false narrative.

I am your average moderate Conservative: I am pro-Ukraine, pro-Israel, pro-vax, pro-democracy, pro-choice, anti-terrorist, pro-free speech but not pro hate speech, anti-MapleMAGA. etc. I am an average Conservative Canadian.

IMO.

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  • #869
  • #870
Of course he does, except he won't care about lumber quality or reforestation. He will provide twigs to build houses in hurricane and earthquake zones.

When he was in office, earlier, Trump had mentioned that some national parks could use some condo developments.

I seriously doubt he has ever actually visited a US National Park in an unofficial capacity, as private golf courses seem to have all the scenery and greenery he needs.

He also does not bother to understand the intricacies of natural resource preservation and development. His recent Executive Order to release water from Northern California to supply the LA firefighting needs was an absolute cheap theatrics TV moment, and was disastrous as a water policy.

He wasted water that was being held for the truly dry summer months. The water that was released did not reach southern California reservoirs, because it takes time to plan the circuit for the water supplies. There is no one direct pipeline from northern to southern California, duh, and the engineers were under an Executive Order to do it now, not the proper time frame. At least some water was able to be put into aquifir reserves so hopefully it is not completely lost to the agricultural uses for which it had been designated.

Cheap theatrical TV moments is all this ignorant Carnival Barker-In-Chief is capable of.

 
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  • #871
I'd agree with all of the above with the caveat that "Canadians" must insist upon it. And must insist that it is carried through with by whichever government we put in next.

There is no follow through if Canadians do not make it so. Defence and economic security are huge moderate-Canadian values and miderates tend to swing their vote based upon the party platforms presented (aka 'promised') during campaigns. It's why we swing back and forth between the two moderate parties being seated as government.

I say, "insist upon it", precisely because a lot of promises to do such were made by JT his first time at bat to do exactly that. "Pipeline". "Look after or Vets". A promised: informed-by-Canadians committment to National Defence via "Strong, Secure, Engaged" aka 'SSE'.

He was got a lot of Conservative votes precisely because of those promises. Then, after he was elected "SSE" was published and while it looks really nice on paper, we military people noted that he had committed "not one dime" to actually making it happen. Pipelines? Nope - he canned them. Lookig after vets? Huge fail.

The people I know who are conservatives and whom voted for the Liberals that go 'roud, are the people that Polievre is talking to. The ones tired of seeing, living and experiencing the broken promises - PP simply called that promise-breaking out. There's a lot of us who agree with him. That does not make us anti-Canadian or un-Patriotic ... rather a vast many of us are exactly the opposite. The Liberals also need to remember that. It's kind of akin to the "deplorables" comment by Clinton. A false narrative.

IMO.
Carney is in the unique position where he can show Canadians what he will do before the federal election. As soon as he's sworn in, he can start implementing change. We don't have to listen to promises he might keep after the election. It's up to him to take action now, not ponder aloud about what might happen. We'll see.
 
  • #872
Just wanted to tell people, in days like this i usually start following Andy Borowitz. Humor helps cope.
 
  • #873
WashingtonCNN —
President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.

Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.


It's been posted in this thread already:

It appeals to his base and all sounds good, but means actually zeo.

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  • #874
  • #875
Often, the message is sent in the jewels being worn.

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Yes, I agree. Like the King wearing his military outfit the other day - presumably due to the UK's heightened involvement with Ukraine.

imo
 
  • #876

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
I wonder if some Canadians look at our military with a "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail" mentality. I know I used to. But I think as the arctic thaws and opens up new ground for potential arguments, as well as having an unstable neighbour to our South - not to mention potentially aiding our allies - I think it's high time we reevaluate our military spending and operations.
 
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  • #877
Yes, I agree. Like the King wearing his military outfit the other day - presumably due to the UK's heightened involvement with Ukraine.

imo

A Canadian military uniform at that.
 
  • #878
Often, the message is sent in the jewels being worn.

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It would be cool if Prince William's tie had tiny little red maple leaves on it, like King Charles's famous tie with the little T. Rex's on it.
 
  • #879
Dbm
 
  • #880
This graphic from the Washington Post does a nice visual example of where and how hard tariffs would hurt USAnians.

"More than 5 million Americans work in industries that could be impacted by retaliatory tariffs from China and Canada that went into effect over the past week, according to a new analysis of employment data by the Brookings Institution.

The tariffs, which tax selected goods exported by the United States, are aimed at the agricultural, manufacturing and energy sectors. The Midwest is particularly at risk to retaliatory tariffs on food production, while the impacts on the manufacturing sector may be felt harder in the South. Areas with high levels of employment in mining, like in southern West Virginia, are also vulnerable to fallout from the trade war.


Counties that voted for President Donald Trump have a greater share of workers in industries targeted by retaliatory tariffs.
Roughly 3 million people in Trump-voting counties work in those industries, compared with about 2 million in counties that swung for Vice President Kamala Harris. And the counties that face the greatest potential impact from countertariffs were three times as likely to have voted for Trump.

“There’s definitely a bias towards Republican-voting areas,” said Robert Maxim, a fellow at Brookings Metro who worked on the jobs analysis. “I don’t think that’s a coincidence. China and Canada know what they’re doing.”

( I can't get the legend to post with the graph. It's in the text version of the story. There are a lot of interesting points about how this really hits some small US counties that have only one major industry or producer.

The key is:
Orange = Food manufacturing Very tall = 60% jobs exposed to tariffs, small= 5%
Green = Agriculture
Red = Oil, natural gas, mining
Blue= Other manufacturing
1741645663059.webp

 
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