Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[Deleted member 39678]

Synthetic Cannabinoids (K2, Spice)​

A substance often called "fake weed," "K2," and "spice" can cause severe bleeding and possibly death.

Synthetic cannabinoids are not one drug. Hundreds of different synthetic cannabinoid chemicals are manufactured and sprayed on dried plant material or sold as liquids to be inhaled in products like e-cigarettes or other vaping devices. New cannabinoid chemicals with unknown health risks are available each year.

These products are unsafe, and the health effects from using them can be unpredictable, harmful, and even life threatening. The CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) is currently monitoring data across the nation regarding outbreaks.

Synthetic Cannabinoids (K2, Spice)

A substance often called "fake weed," "K2," and "spice" can cause severe bleeding and possibly death.These products are found across the U.S. in convenience stores, gas stations, drug paraphernalia shops, novelty stores, and online.There was one confirmed death in Milwaukee County in 2018.

www.dhs.wisconsin.gov

The symptoms of K2/Spice abuse fits exactly with what happened on the subway.

I'm sure we will learn more about it when the defense gets it's turn. JMO.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I'm not impressed with the medical examiners testimony.
I have a feeling the defense will put up a good rebuttal witness that will help the jury in making their decision.

How in the world could this ME disregard toxicology? It tells me she made up her mind from watching video and not relying on medical determinations. JMO.

Daniel Penny's chokehold was sole cause of Jordan Neely's death, medical examiner testifies

“It’s my medical opinion that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for Mr. Neely’s death,” the medical examiner, Dr. Cynthia Harris, told jurors Friday.

www.nbcnews.com

There is no toxicity test for K2 so we'll never know when JN took it or how much was in his system.
What we do know is that had DP not strangled JN to death JN would not have died that afternoon.
Chauvin's defense tried the same, Floyd had drugs in his system,a heart condition and a form of sickle cell and it wasn't the 9 mins Chauvin had his knee on GF's neck.
We all know how that panned out.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

There is no toxicity test for K2 so we'll never know when JN took it or how much was in his system.
What we do know is that had DP not strangled JN to death JN would not have died that afternoon.
Chauvin's defense tried the same, Floyd had drugs in his system,a heart condition and a form of sickle cell and it wasn't the 9 mins Chauvin had his knee on GF's neck.
We all know how that panned out.

I have a problem with an ME who appears to ignore the impact of the K2 in Neely's system and how it could be a major factor in his death.

So I don't know that Penny's actions resulted in Neely's death. JMO.

George Floyd is off topic so I will not be responding to that.

 

[Izzylizzy]

The symptoms of K2/Spice abuse fits exactly with what happened on the subway.

I'm sure we will learn more about it when the defense gets it's turn. JMO.

JN suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and we don't know the level of K2 in his system.
The only symptoms that we can be sure of are shown on the videos of JN being strangled to death.
Dr. Cynthia Harris walked the jurors through the video step by step explaining the symptoms he showed until his last breath.

 

[LinasK]

I have a problem with an ME who appears to ignore the impact of the K2 in Neely's system and how it could be a major factor in his death.

So I don't know that Penny's actions resulted in Neely's death. JMO.

George Floyd is off topic so I will not be responding to that.

Could be? She didn't ignore them because it wasn't relevant. I trust her judgement over someone without the same level of medical knowledge.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I have a problem with an ME who appears to ignore the impact of the K2 in Neely's system and how it could be a major factor in his death.

So I don't know that Penny's actions resulted in Neely's death. JMO.

George Floyd is off topic so I will not be responding to that.

The defense has JN's medical records and some can be admitted as evidence to the jury.
So we'll hear about his violent history, times in a mental ward and what drugs he may have used and any K2 info available.
But at the end of the day it's all irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevant is that after DP brought JN down with a chokehold and then had the help of 2 other guys, one who told him 2x that he could let go of JN and a witness who yelled at him that he was killing Neely, DP continued to hold him even for another minute after his body became lifeless.
Dr. Harris explains on the one video that JN movements show he was brain dead at about 2.5 minutes into it.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Could be? She didn't ignore them because it wasn't relevant. I trust her judgement over someone without the same level of medical knowledge.

I think the links I provided show that it's relevant.

Like I posted above, I'm sure we will learn more when the defense has their witness's testify about the ME's conclusions on toxicology and the K2. JMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Doubtful. They tried that same argument with George Floyd.

I never followed that case so I'm not familiar.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The defense has JN's medical records and some can be admitted as evidence to the jury.
So we'll hear about his violent history, times in a mental ward and what drugs he may have used and any K2 info available.
But at the end of the day it's all irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevant is that after DP brought JN down with a chokehold and then had the help of 2 other guys, one who told him 2x that he could let go of JN and a witness who yelled at him that he was killing Neely, DP continued to hold him even for another minute after his body became lifeless.
Dr. Harris explains on the one video that JN movements show he was brain dead at about 2.5 minutes into it.

If the K2 is what caused Neely's death it is definitely relevant.

I think it's time to agree to disagree about the cause of death being the "choke hold". You have your opinion and I have mine. JMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I have a feeling the K2 synthetic cannabinoid Neely took was a major factor in his death. That stuff is bad. JMO.

• inability to move
• dizziness
• breathing difficulties
• chest pain
• heart palpitations
• seizures
• extreme anxiety
• paranoia
• suicidal thoughts
• psychosis
• gastrointestinal issues – like vomiting or diarrhoea
• acute kidney injury

https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/drugs-and-drug-use/common-drugs/synthetic-cannabinoids-spice/

That's exactly what I was wondering about.

 

[Ontario Mom]

If the K2 is what caused Neely's death it is definitely relevant.

I think if it can be ruled out, then it certainly should be.
Likewise, if it can't be ruled out, we need to know that as well.

So far, I don't think we know one way or another. Yes of course we know what Penny did, but we don't know for a fact if that was the only contributing factor to Neely's death.

jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

I have a problem with an ME who appears to ignore the impact of the K2 in Neely's system and how it could be a major factor in his death.

So I don't know that Penny's actions resulted in Neely's death. JMO.

George Floyd is off topic so I will not be responding to that.

There is no toxicity test for K2 so we'll never know when JN took it or how much was in his system.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

That's exactly what I was wondering about.

If you look at the possible symptoms of that stuff it explains what happened. You have a person acting out with suicidal thoughts who had trouble breathing, stopped moving and later died. K2/Spice is bad. JMO.

Despite being marketed as a safer alternative to what most people know marijuana to be, synthetic marijuana has proven to be one of the most dangerous drugs on the market today. The Drug Abuse Warning Network, or DAWN, reported that almost 12,000 people have needed emergency medical care after using this dangerous drug, and that almost 5,100 cases reported to poison control centers were due to the abuse of this drug. Several people have lost their lives after misusing this substance, and countless others are now forced to live with permanent mental and physical health concerns because of the abuse of synthetic marijuana.

K2 & Spice Abuse Signs & Symptoms | Longleaf Hospital

Learn about K2 & Spice abuse signs, symptoms and effects. Longleaf Hospital

www.longleafhospital.com

 

[Ontario Mom]

There is no toxicity test for K2 so we'll never know when JN took it or how much was in his system.

If I were sitting on a jury, that would cause some doubt for me. Curious, do you have a link to this info?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

There is no toxicity test for K2 so we'll never know when JN took it or how much was in his system.

So Neely could have taken a lethal dose and Penny's actions were not the cause of his death.

Sounds like reasonable doubt to me. JMO.

 

[caradana]

MOO: this jury is going to acquit inside a day. Maybe faster, but they will feel a need to deliberate thoroughly and not return too quickly. MOO: at least one of the jury members will come out and openly say this within a week of the verdict. There is some theatre here.

 

[Izzylizzy]

If you look at the possible symptoms of that stuff it explains what happened. You have a person acting out with suicidal thoughts who had trouble breathing, stopped moving and later died. K2/Spice is bad. JMO.

K2 & Spice Abuse Signs & Symptoms | Longleaf Hospital

Learn about K2 & Spice abuse signs, symptoms and effects. Longleaf Hospital

www.longleafhospital.com

Had JN dropped right there and then while ranting then I'd say you could be right.

The big problem with your K2 defense that JN didn't drop there and then he was strangled for 6 minutes.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Had JN dropped right there and then while ranting then I'd say you could be right.

The big problem with your K2 defense that JN didn't drop there and then he was strangled for 6 minutes.

I'm not following you.

 

[Lilibet]

Yes of course we know what Penny did, but we don't know for a fact if that was the only contributing factor to Neely's death.

We know that if Penny had not held his chokehold for too long, Neely would not have died. Or if Penny had chosen a safer way to restrain Neely, he would not have died. It’s not like Neely came onto the car yelling and just dropped dead because of K2 or any other health issue. Penny is the contributing factor regardless of other substances or health issues, [mod snip off topic]
JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

So Neely could have taken a lethal dose and Penny's actions were not the cause of his death.

Sounds like reasonable doubt to me. JMO.

The strangulation death of JN by DP was videoed.
He was brain dead 2.5 minutes into the video that was entered as evidence.
As I just replied to you had JN dropped then and there while ranting and was never taken down and put in a chokehold and died then yes, maybe drugs would have been the cause.
But..that is not the way this tragic event unfolded.